HID Lights

[Crinkley Ol Sod]

Hi all, quick question time!

Has anybody successfuly fitted Xenon conversions to the main beam headlights on an Octy2 and if so, how easy was it?
I have Xenons on dip and I would like to have them on the main beam also.
The reason for it is that most of the roads where I live are not illuminated (i.e I live in the sticks)and as my last car had twin headlights giving 4 X 55 Watts on main beam, it would be usefull to get the same sort of light output with the Octy.

I belive the main beam bulbs are H1's and I have tracked down this site offering H1 conversion kits.

http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/product.php?productid=16377&cat=619&page=1


Any comments?

Regards,
Crink.

[stumpy1]

Crinkley, do your Xenons appear to wobble and flicker when driving over bumps and divots in the road? Mine do, and I'm sure it's not the self leveling because other cars I've got also have Xenons and don't do this. The dealer has tested them (in daylight!?!) and said they're to spec.

[RobClubley]

I have a mate who fitted something like these to his Alfa, then movedthem to his Seat - on the normal dipped beam. He's well pleased with them.

[AlanD]

good idea! I recently had an Octy II I'm planning on buying out on over night test drive and it has xenons. While I was pleased with the low beams, the high beams were utterly useless in comparison. Like you, I do a lot of driving out in the sticks so good full beams would be beneficial.

Let us know here if you go with this conversion. Actually, would the stage 1 conversion not be better. That 6000k conversion (stage 2 I believe) is more blue than good light.

Also, would it be possible to do a bi-xenon conversion to the Octy and use one of those mechanical covers or scoops that open up when high beams are required?

[Crinkley Ol Sod]

Hi All, again
Well, I've gone OTT and just orderd a Xenon conversion kit from HIDS4U.co.uk for the high beam lamps (cost 2p under £220).

They look pretty straight forward to install, just need to find somewhere to mount the ballasts!
I recon if I can work upside down (without me glasses falling off), I should be able to fit them without removing the whole lamp unit.

I can't see that a bi-xenon conversion would work on the Octy2, as the low beam lights are projection units and they don't have a high/low facility. You just get the low beam Xenons and the high beam halogens on together when you hit the full beam switch. Well, that's what happens on mine.

Quick message to Stumpy; I haven't noticed an obvious wobble yet but now you have mentioned it. I'll keep an eye open for one.

One last thing, HIDS4U are offering some kind of group buy deal on their previous model HID conversion kits.

Regards
Crink.

[stumpy1]

Thanks Crinkley. It's going in again next week again,,,,,,,

[dstev2000]

One slight issue....................

How are you going to use the flashers on your headlights?

At the moment your main beam H1 halogen does that but the xenons take a good few seconds to warm up before producing decent light so are uselss if you want to flash someone with your headlights. Thats why most bi-xenon equipped cars still have a halogen bulb to do just that.

And repeated igniting of HID lamps is what considerably shortens their lifespan.

Most halogen reflectors aren't designed to handle the light from a xenon bulb and they will chuck the light out in an unpredictable fashion.

[JohnMorr]

"And repeated igniting of HID lamps is what considerably shortens their lifespan."

Does that mean we shouldn't use the tunnel setting on the lights, which turns them on and off every time we go through an underpass, or into a multi-story car park? Not to mention the "welcome home" bit....

[dstev2000]

Repeated use as in flashing your headlamps 2 or 3 times in quick succession i.e. to let someone out of a turning.

Re striking the lamp while its cold does the damage which is what would happen if one was used as a main beam for flashing.

I presume the light assist leaves the lamp running for a minimum period of time allowing it to warm up. It's a known fact that the more times a xenon lamp is struck, the shorter it's life will be.

And what would the bulb failure system make of the aftermarket ballast pack that replaces the H1 lamp?

[Crinkley Ol Sod]

Hi All,

Thanks for the usefull comments (one of the good bits about joing this group).

I had similar thoughts about the points raised but reading the information on the supplier’s web site, it appears they may have addressed these issues (I hope).

They do make a point of saying that their conversion kits are suitable for main beam applications, so maybe they are ok for emergency flashing. Although I can’t see them being as responsive as halogens, so I guess you have to hang on to the switch a little longer rather the just give it a quick flick. To be honest I can't remember the last time I needed to use the headlight flasher but Murphy's Law will apply as soon as I convert them.

Looking at the various photos on their site, of beam patterns produced after conversion on other makes of car, they seem very close to the patterns produced by the original bulbs. So hopefully I will get similar results with the Octy.

One other possible problem, which I hadn't considered initially, is the effect the conversion may have on the Octy’s bulb fault sensing system. They say their conversion kits are compatible with fault sensing circuits so this shouldn’t be an issue.

The conversion will be a bit of an experiment but as I said in my first post, I would like to have the main beam light levels my old car produced. It will give me a better chance of spotting kamikaze sheep jumping over hedgerows!

Regards,
Crink.

[dstev2000]

Best of luck with your conversion.

Let us know how you get on with it.

Please bear in mind the following when you are doing it:

- The pressure in a running xenon lamp is extremely high, in excess of 30 bar (450 psi),

- The strike voltage can be as high as 15,000 volts, maybe higher during hot restarts.

I dont want to patronise here but that's pretty dangerous stuff if your head isn't screwed on.

Goggles and marigolds maybe?

[malfean]

Okok.

I have elegance equipment, so i have lo beam are xenons default.
I put xenon kit to Hi beams to get light on dark autum and winter nights.

Kit contains ballasts and h7 "bulb". You need to make hole to rubber
cover over hibeam. But the light is amazing. Only sad thing is, that
lobeams have yellowish 3000k and the kit got cool 6000k lights.
But its ok when you need it, but it makes you want 6000K lights
to lobeams....

I put the ballast under the light unit rails.
And btw, removing the headlamp is 5minute job.

Only thing that took time, was trying to change the park lights with leds.
I can say now, that dont bother, it wont work. I think the parking lights
are regulated, and dont give enough juice to light the white led.

Kit was 250 euros, and replacement bulbs are 79 euros.

Edit:
Oh yeah, for some reason, my solisto seems to take it to itself when i use hibeams.
Nothing else has any special problems, but somehow solisto freezes...

Have the samekind of kit in my motorbike, and have had zero problems.

[Crinkley Ol Sod]

Hi all,

Well, I finally found the time to fit the xenon conversions to my Octy main beam headlights.
The improvement in the light output is very noticeable on the unlit roads that I use and is similar
to the light output that I used to have with my old car, so now I can spot the kamikaze sheep with ease.

Thanks to malfean’s tip about fitting the ballast under the light rail, it seems about the only place under the bonnet to put anything and it has a spare hole in it to bung a bolt through!
Everything sits nicely clear of the radiator, which should help to keep it cooler.

No problems with the bulb fault system but I did have to fit suppressors in the 12v supply taken from the original halogen bulbs as when the engine was running the ballast started to flicker and then shut down.
Apparently this is something to do with the onboard computer sending a pulse down the wire, which is ignored by the halogens, but upsets the ballasts and is a common problem with a lot of new cars.

I had a quick test flash against the garage wall before I converted both lamps to see how the xenon side compared with the halogen side and was impressed.
The conversion kit that I used ignites the main beam lamps much quicker than the factory fitted xenon’s and both lamps appeared to me to get to the same brightness at about the same time.
Although I am aware that rapid flashing will reduce the life of the bulbs, it’s nice to know that it if I need a flash it’s ok.

I’ve stuck a couple of photos at the bottom of this post taken when only the o/s was converted so you can spot the difference.
If anybody would like some ‘under the bonnet’ photos of where bits were put and how it looks when completed, just let me know.

Bye 4 now
Crink.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/attac...1&d=1156711703

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/attac...1&d=1156711703

[Toneboy]

I have to be honest I prefer to use a higher wattage bulb, the ones they use on Off Roaders and provider you have your headlights set up correctly they are no problem to other road users.

[JayTee]

I previously had a Octavia L&K with Xenon on dip beam and they "wobbled" over bumps which is quite normal and you get used to it.
I now have a Seat Toledo 5P with optional Bi-Xenon and these also wobble, but much less. It is great having Xenon on both dip and main beam. The car also has halogen "main beam assist" lights which operate when you "flash" giving you instant light for flash function.

Retro fit HID kits seem to be getting very popular now, but as far as I am aware are most likely to be illegal when fitted - unless the C&U regs have recently changed, you need to have self levelling mechanism and washers if you have Xenon lights.

John.

[johnjohnhealy]

Originally Posted by JayTee

Retro fit HID kits seem to be getting very popular now, but as far as I am aware are most likely to be illegal when fitted - unless the C&U regs have recently changed, you need to have self levelling mechanism and washers if you have Xenon lights.
John.

I've been running HID kits on my cars for years, they are not illegal and will pass an MOT no problem.

The regulations requiring self leveling and washers only apply to cars factory fitted with HID/Xenon lights.

[Manguish]

Same here. Seconded.

[JayTee]

Originally Posted by johnjohnhealy

I've been running HID kits on my cars for years, they are not illegal and will pass an MOT no problem.

The regulations requiring self leveling and washers only apply to cars factory fitted with HID/Xenon lights.

OK, have now done a bit of research on this subject and found this posting in a forum which backs up my belief that aftermarket HID/Xenon headlamps kits are NOT legal.

Have received the following guidance from The Department of Transport.........

Dear Sir,

The situation for Gas Discharge (HID High Intensity Discharge) (commonly known as Xenon) headlamps is complex.

I attach links to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 which regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However you will be well aware that new vehicles have Xenon headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the Xenon headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "Xenon is banned in the aftermarket" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require Xenon in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a Xenon headlamp sold in the aftermarket should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3, Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Hope that helps.

***

We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.)
The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers.

So just because the car will get through an MOT with this conversion does not mean that it is legal - it is probably that the scope of the MOT test does not currently include checking whether Xenon lamps are fitted!!

John.

[johnjohnhealy]

As you said, you found this post on another forum, it could have come from anywhere, could be total bull.

I'd check for yourself with the DOT if you are not convinced of the legality, but as far as i'm concerned, if it passes an MOT it is legal, also if the kit you buy has European type approval (dont buy one without) then there is no problem.

Ask your local friendly MOT tester to show you the relevent legislation regarding HID/Xenons, it clearly states only factory fitted units must have self leveling and washers, aftermarket kits do not require them. they are legal if they an 'E' marking the same as any other type of bulb that is not to manufacturers spec.

[JayTee]

Originally Posted by johnjohnhealy

As you said, you found this post on another forum, it could have come from anywhere, could be total bull.

I'd check for yourself with the DOT if you are not convinced of the legality, but as far as i'm concerned, if it passes an MOT it is legal, also if the kit you buy has European type approval (dont buy one without) then there is no problem.

Ask your local friendly MOT tester to show you the relevent legislation regarding HID/Xenons, it clearly states only factory fitted units must have self leveling and washers, aftermarket kits do not require them. they are legal if they an 'E' marking the same as any other type of bulb that is not to manufacturers spec.

Hi,
I don't think that you read my last post correctly - the content was actually guidance being given from the DOT!!

Anyway, it doesn't make sense that OEM fitted Xenon lights have to have self levelling and wash systems whilst aftermarket fitted units dont!

I rest my case.
John.

[johnjohnhealy]

Originally Posted by JayTee

Hi,
I don't think that you read my last post correctly - the content was actually guidance being given from the DOT!!

Anyway, it doesn't make sense that OEM fitted Xenon lights have to have self levelling and wash systems whilst aftermarket fitted units dont!

I rest my case.
John.

Well, actually it does make sense, as retrospectively fitting self leveling and washers would be prohibitively expensive if not impossible to do.

As I said, provided a bulb is E-marked it really doesn't matter how its powered, provided the light output and pattern are within recommended specs then there isn't a problem as the guidelines dont say you cant change bulbs on cars, or the way they are powered. As I said, ask an MOT technician, the guidelines are quite clear.

In fact you could have candle powered headlamps if you really wanted too, provided they gave enough light in the correct pattern.!

[Traff2003]

Originally Posted by johnjohnhealy

In fact you could have candle powered headlamps if you really wanted too, provided they gave enough light in the correct pattern.!

whilst I agree that you can use e numbered replacement bulbs there may be other issues ...

And that is where the problem lies .... the correct beam pattern are there any differences in the reflectors/lens on a xenon headlight assembly compared to the halogen?

If there are then this will adjust the beam pattern and make the fitment outside the scope of an MOT pass