Marwood's Paintwork Problems (Disaster!)

[Marwood]

The Story so far,

I pick up my new vRS from Mitchell Skoda near Chester. I do check the bodywork to the best of my ability in the roped off hand over area inside the showroom. In the lighting conditions I can see no issues.

About a week later I spot some marks looking at the car from a distance when it is parked outside some local shops. I assume it is the light…..it’s a brand new car after all.

I take some ‘before and after shots’ of the car during its first wash to post on a car detailing site. The car is washed by hand VERY carefully….two buckets, sheepskin, nice shampoo etc. One of the pictures shows a flower shaped mark under the nearside front passenger door release. I learn this is a Hologram mark and has been caused by inappropriate/over-aggressive/inexperienced use of a rotary polisher/buffer possibly during the cars preparation for hand over. However, the dealer asserts they don’t use one in the prep of new cars.

The mark is reported to the dealer. They can’t see it until I show them the pics. The dealer (Service Manager) is keen to help and identify the problem. The car is booked in to have it ‘removed’.

In the meantime I discover more ‘holograms’ and an odd circular mark on the bonnet during drying. About 5 inches, about the size of a rotary buffing pad.

To cut a long story short the dealer, true to their word removes the marks. I don’t know what with…..but as the pics show it is done by hand.

After a hundred miles and couple of washes later the paintwork in the areas where the ‘polish’ was applied to remove the marks becomes hazy/foggy/white and inspection shows badly swirled.

At this point Wardy steps in to help me. His advice has been brilliant. Cheers mate.

It appears my ‘clear coat’ has been destroyed by the dealer’s, probably well meaning, attempt to remove the marks. This is a disaster on a new car!

Clearly I am very upset.

I took the car to the dealer for inspection. It was hard for both the Service Manager and I to spot the marks. He is fair about things and says give me a bullet pointed report and some pics and we and Skoda UK will investigate it.

I am in the process of sorting out a detailed report which Wardy is checking for me.
I have many good pics for the dealer to sweat over, many of which you can view in this link:
Marwood_photos - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I wonder how this is going to turn out? I am not going to let this go. I want my paintwork back to how it should have been at handover. Permanently fixed, not just polished and glossed to make it appear ok for a short time. The paint can only get worse until it is sorted. Also any repair must not affect the desirability of the car or its value at resale. Of course, they could always replace the car!
As I say I wonder how this will turn out and how long it is all going to take. Any thoughts on this situation and exactly what they need to do to properly sort the problem out would be appreciated.

Many Thanks,
Marwood.

[Dr Zoidberg]

No pics in that link

[Marwood]

Cheers Doc,

Bloody thing!

Try this:
Marwood_photos - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

M

[Dr Zoidberg]

Yep , that's some nice clear damage to the paintwork that shouldn't be there on a new car.

I'd suggest that they could get a proper professional valeting company to give it a go as the garage staff are no good but on the understanding that if they can't sort it to your satisfaction you will be rejecting the car.

[VRStu]

Not good news Marwood, although it's nice that the dealer is willing.

[Marwood]

Yeah that seems sensible. Would probably need a third party to check thier work as satisfactory is a tricky judgement for the non body work expert. Guy at work thinks it needs the whole clearcoat removing.....reapplication in dust free conditions and then some of those nice heat lamps.
However unless I see all this extensive and potentially expensive (to them!) work done myself, it will be hard to tell for maybe several months if the job has been done properly. I have seen the work done by detailers and it is really impressive, but it needs to be maintained. A 'new paint job' shall we say should require less work to stay in good shape as it would not revert to it's previous poor condition and can be treated in line with the advice found in the Octavia handbook, as if the car was brand new again.
Course, I could just trust my dealer and Skoda UK, to be fair they haven't seen these pics yet or read what I am going to say in the 'report' I have been asked to produce.
A trust indicator would be confirmation that new cars in this particular dealer are not prepared using rotary polishers.
M

[Marwood]

True Stu,
So far they have done their best to help me, even if their actions have made the problem worse. Good intentions and all that!
M

[Makefish]

Keep us informed, very interested in the outcome of this.

[Marwood]

Oh, don't worry I will mate!

[NeilS]

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

Yep , that's some nice clear damage to the paintwork that shouldn't be there on a new car.

I'd suggest that they could get a proper professional valeting company to give it a go as the garage staff are no good but on the understanding that if they can't sort it to your satisfaction you will be rejecting the car.

I'd reject it asap. I had a vaguely similar problem with a used (8 months old) Octavia I bought from a main dealer. I knew when I bought it that it would need a proper claying, polishing and waxing to improve the slightly hazy finish (nowhere near as bad as yours) and when I got it home and properly washed it, I was disappointed with what I saw and decided I didn't have the skills to do it properly so I though best entrust the work to a professional detailer. Good job I did as the first thing they did was measure the thickness of the clear coat and paint and it was not good news! The dealer had obviously machine polished the car and done so very aggressively leaving sod all clear coat. I ended up having only 1 or 2 microns thickness removed by gentle machine polishing and hand waxing. Fantastic job and well pleased but I know I can't do it again in a year or two because there's not enough clear coat on some parts and it could trash the paintwork.

I'm with Zoidberg but maybe you could ask them to run a paint gauge over the affected areas and unless it shows up as being completely "normal" for a new car then I'd reject it - even if you get the car looking 100% you'll know they've had to cream off lots of clear coat which compromises your ability to maintain the paintwork of the car as you would expect with a new one. There's a few threads on this site from peope who have measured their paint thickness as part of their detailing.

[Marwood]

Thanks Neil,
The thickness issue occured to me as I remembered Fluffy having found great variation in thickness.....I think he was looking at his rece blue vRS at the time.
As I implied with 'new paint job' I am concerned as to the longevity of any remedial action.

About rejection of the car....how does that work? Am I well within my rights to reject or am I 'duty bound' to give the dealership/Skoda UK the 'opportunity' to 'make things good' (depending on their's and my interpritation of the car having been 'made good') ?

M

[anonymouse]

Reject it - what a shame, such a nice looking motor.

And, well done to Steve Wardy for helping out.
He's a good un (but don't tell him I said that).

[Wardy]

Have just finished checking through the pics. Doesn't look good that - extremely clear marring, holograms and that mark on the bonnet is an absolute belter; I'd be absolutely fuming!

If you could back it up with firm evidence (very difficult), I'd say the correction work they promised you has been carried out by someone not trained or familiar with a rotary polisher. Or they may 'contract' it out I suppose - depends on the dealership. I'd heard good things about Mitchells on the whole and was impressed when I got my first Fabia serviced there. While it is encouraging that they've been willing to help, I would expect this really. And it seems to me, at this present moment, that their attempt at sorting the problem has been seriously deficient. Perhaps even negligent.

Anyway, I'll reply to your email, as discussed.

Steve

[Dodgy]

You've got a good chance of a satisfactory outcome with Mitchells, they're one of the better dealers out there.
Try and contact Mark Mitchell, he's a sound bloke.

Dave.

[Marwood]

Wardy, Have read your email thank you so much for what you have done to help me. What can I say but that whatever happens, I will be driving over to you with a large bottle of something,
Cheers mate!

Dodgy, You are hopefully right about Mitchell Skoda. One of the reasons I felt comfortable buying a new Skoda was the principals Mark Mitchell adheres to. I had read about him and the dealership well before I decided to buy the car. I think I will follow your advice and have a chat to him. Indeed he thanked me for the review I gave of the dealership (on Briskoda) when I bought the car, this was a nice touch and appreciated.

anonymouse, it looks like I may have to do this.

General question.......Is there a correct procedure for rejecting a car and has anyone had any experience of how it all works?

Many thanks, (again)
Paul.

[Stuart_J]

In all fairness to the dealer cars are often repaired before they recieve it from Skoda. Our Superb was keyed & when it was resprayed they found a top coat beneath the undercoat/top coat. After further investigation by SUK they found the car had been compleytely resprayed at the factory due to a poor finish. It was a perfect job & its only the damage that showed it up. cars are also fixed in the UK before going to the dealers

I have a friend in the trade & some of the repairs carried out for importers on so called new cars would make you wince, he once did one (not Skoda) that had been rolled onto its side by an enthusiastic oik unloading it from a boat. Also if a dealer takes delivery of a car & a mechanic prangs what do you think they do, fix it of course

[Stuart_J]

Re rejection, if you want to go that way do it ASAP & to reject it you have to return it to the dealer, dont drive it any more, obviosly photograph it inside & out on the forecourt to confirm the condition it was returned in.

This has to be a last resort, I believe you have to give the dealer a fair chance to rectify it

If the ealer dosent know how the car was damaged get them to contact Skoda who have records of anything done to the car

Citizens advice Beurau are an excellent source of advice on this.

If the cars on Finance you will be in an even stronger position as the finance company have more clout

Either way get something to the dealer in writing now as that sets a record of your complaint, remember, if it gets messy "if it aint in writing it hasnt been said"

[Marwood]

Thank you for that information Stuart,

I am going to submit a detailed report to my dealer which includes pictures. I am lucky that I have been documenting things with a camera. I am going to give this to the Service Manager as requested and then have a chat to Mark Mitchell as Dodgy suggested.

From what you say it opens up the possibility of the original hologram marks having occured before the dealer got hold of the car. I would be keen to establish what exactly happened before blame is leveled at anyone and I do want to work with the dealer to put things right.

Rejecting the car would still be desirable, given it's age and low milage. I wonder how long such a process would take. In the end I won't know until I, as you say, put the whole matter in writing and allow some investigation. Wardy has been helping me with the report.

Many thanks for your help Stuart.

Would still like to know if it is general prac for dealers to use rotary buffers and anyone who has experience of rejecting a car, especially because of bodywork issues.

The dealer has tried to help so far......I hope the will do the right thing by me!

Paul.

[Dodgy]

Mitchell group are members on Briskoda, they occasionally post here, I think they value the enthusiast sector of the market. I'm sure they'll do right for you Mark is a car nut himself (I walk/cycle past his house all the time and there's usually some interesting machinery on his drive ).

Dave.

[sworrall]

hope you get it sorted marwood and glad the dealer is still onside, there seem to be too many dealers out htere that would just walk away from a problem like this. They sorted out my lack of kick plates quick enough when skoda offered to put them on for free.

as above though if the clearcoat has been burned through im not sure how they would rectify this without some major work??

[Marwood]

I have had a 'Google' regarding rejection. It is is an option open to me but I am going to let the dealer have a crack at it first.

As Wardy suggested to me the work can be done properly and it can be guaranteed. Futhermore, the dealer has been given the opportunity to do right by me and would be working with me in these circumstances. I want to trust Mark and his team to sort this out. Still if it doesn't work out I have the option to take the matter futher.

I am really fuming about this, although I may seem calm!

I am going to try and get the report letter sorted for tomorrow. I will take it all down in person with the pics to the service manager and see what happens. I may give Mark a bell too.

Not looking forward to this, but there you go!

Will let you know what happens.
Thank you all for you information and support so far.
This is a wonderful forum.

Cheers,
Paul.

[motr]

Originally Posted by Marwood

I have had a 'Google' regarding rejection. It is is an option open to me but I am going to let the dealer have a crack at it first.

As Wardy suggested to me the work can be done properly and it can be guaranteed. Futhermore, the dealer has been given the opportunity to do right by me and would be working with me in these circumstances. I want to trust Mark and his team to sort this out. Still if it doesn't work out I have the option to take the matter futher.

I am really fuming about this, although I may seem calm!

I am going to try and get the report letter sorted for tomorrow. I will take it all down in person with the pics to the service manager and see what happens. I may give Mark a bell too.

Not looking forward to this, but there you go!

Will let you know what happens.
Thank you all for you information and support so far.
This is a wonderful forum.

Cheers,
Paul.

What you need to remember is that it's your car they have screwed up. YOU are 100 percent entitled for a full explanation and for either the work to be done to the standard it should be OR a replacement car.

I have to say, if it was me, I would reject the car and demand a new one, because sadly, you are the one that will lose out in the long run, especially if the problem comes back. It may be guarenteed, but it could cause you nothing but hassle.

[badgersport]

I would reject the car.

If the clearcoat has been buffed away the only solution is a respray and I would be unwilling to take the chance on the job being done to 'as new' standard.

Alternatively if the clearcoat hasn't been buffed away to nothing they may try to polish the marks out. This will remove even more clearcoat and whilst the car may look fine if it is ever scratched or marked again there won't be any clearcoat left and the only option then will be a respray. By that time there will be no hope of the dealer doing the necessary work and you (or whoever owns the car by then) will have to pay for it.

Given that we are talking abut a car costing £19K or so I'd suggest a visit to a specialist solicitor to find the actual proceedure for rejecting it as well. It would be a few hundred well spent.

[VRSPhil]

I've only skimmed through the replies to this post, so please disregard this if I'm just repeating what others have said.

I rejected a vehicle in 2003 following a shocking chain of faults. My advice to you would be to go and speak to citizens advice who will be able to tell you the law very accurately. I did the same but unfortunately I have forgotten a lot now so don't want to give you out of date/faulty advice.

The main thing I found was that many of the factors involved (time allowed after purchase in which to reject or the time the dealer is allowed to rectify the faults) are grey areas and are largly left to common sense. This can work for you in that there is no definite time limit in which you can reject, but it also gives the dealers lots of leeway which can be frustrating.

My situation was slightly different in that the dealership was treating me as a nuesance customer, they actually sighed when I walked in (not half as loudly as I did every time another fault arose, though!) In the end I asked to see the service manager and the after-sales manager in a formal meeting situation. I advised them that I intended to reject the vehicle (to which they replied "you can't, it's done too many miles). I then went on to explain that I was fully aware of the law and that I was going to leave the car there and then and collect it in 14 days time. If the car was not repaired to original specification with a satisfactory AND LASTING repair then I would reject the vehicle without further discussion. I presented a list of faults and left the car.

Fourteen days later I returned to collect the car, all seemed fine and the faults had been fixed. 4,000 miles later (one month of driving at the time), the gearbox was clunking again and gears were hard to select. I returned to the garage and informed them that I was not happy with the car or the repair work and that I wanted to reject the vehicle, needless to say they refused to take it.

I went to a solicitor and had a letter drafted (I think it cost c£25) which stated that I would be taking the dealer to court because the vehicle was unfit for purpose. Three days later I received a phone call from the owner of the dealership asking me to meet him. When I arrived he offered to exchange the car 'as a good will gesture' for a new one.

Like I say, I know the situations are not quite the same but it gives you an idea anyway. I very nearly missed out on the mileage issue as the car was on 16,000miles/5 months when I finally got rid of it, much more and I think the outcome may have been different.

Good luck, I hope they repair the car to a good standard so you don't have to mess about like I did!

P.S. My problems were not with a Skoda/Skoda dealer.