6spd box into a 4x4 - Can it be done? If so what's involved?

[EddyH]

Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this;

I know of one 4x4 owner who's tuner tried to fit a 6spd box but unfortunately they had issues with the transfer box lining up with the prop, so they went with the option of modifying the internals of the standard box. However I know of an A3 1.8T Quattro owner who has succesfully replaced the standard 5 spd box with a 6spd box (from a later model A3 quattro) and all that was required in addition to the box itself was the starter (the existing driveshafts and gear linkage were fine).

I'm currently looking at options regarding the gearbox as I have concerns with the overall strength and short ratios of the standard box for the power/torque I intend to be running soon.

Anybody else looked into this or able to offer advice?

[Tom_vRS]

If the said Octy 4x4 owner had problems, its surely a haldex car equipped issue. As the quattro is a totally different system I wouldn't get you hopes up mate.

However, I know nothing, so feel free to ignore this comment.

Is there the possibility of simply strengthening the existing internals without adding another cog? Who needs to go faster than 160 odd anyway!

Good luck finding a solution Ed.

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

If the said Octy 4x4 owner had problems, its surely a haldex car equipped issue. As the quattro is a totally different system I wouldn't get you hopes up mate.

However, I know nothing, so feel free to ignore this comment.

Is there the possibility of simply strengthening the existing internals without adding another cog? Who needs to go faster than 160 odd anyway!

Good luck finding a solution Ed.

A common misconception that haldex and quattro are somehow different. On the same platform they use the same system just different brand names such as 4x4, 4 motion or quattro. So Octy, Leon, A3, TT, Golf all use the same haldex system. A4 and Passat all use Torsen but again under different brand names.

The ultimate top speed isn't my concern it's the fact I'm at 4krpm at motorway cruising speeds and also the 5spd is inherently weaker than the 6spd.

[TaviaRS]

Would the box from an Octy 2 4x4 TDi fit?

You might want to talk to Stuart as I know he was looking in to this....

[Goochie]

I looked into a 6 speed box for my FWD Octavia, for the front end you'll need a to change drive shafts (Leon CR or Golf Anniversary). Bengie has looked at the 6 speed for his car, I believe he got scared by the cost of a custom prop shaft.

Would it not be possible to change the internals of your existing box?

[TKW]

Originally Posted by TaviaRS

You might want to talk to Stuart as I know he was looking in to this....

I think you'll find it's Stuart whose "issues" Eddy was refering to in the first post

[TKW]

Originally Posted by EddyH

The ultimate top speed isn't my concern it's the fact I'm at 4krpm at motorway cruising speeds and also the 5spd is inherently weaker than the 6spd.

Have you considered fitting the vRS internals? I seem to remember conversations which suggested that this would be easier than 6-sp internals.

Is the vRS box stronger than the 4x4's?

[SkodiRS]

Originally Posted by EddyH

the 5spd is inherently weaker than the 6spd.

I believe it's the crown diff that's the weak point....it's rivetted on....replace with high tensile bolts.

As you've rightly said though 4x4 has added stress due to sending drive to rear axle. I know a 4x4 owner who tried for a 6 speed but it didn't fit.

Stuart has RS internals and the uprated crown diff.

[FocusZtec]

If anyone finds out how to succesfully do this I'd do it tomorrow! The 4x4 box is too low geared. First gear is almost non existant and the cruising mpg would be much nicer with a six speeder in there!

I spoke to Jabba about it and they mentioned they tried to do it on Stuarts car but ended up just replacing the internals with VRS ones.

Lee

[Goochie]

One thing that eventually put me off the idea of the 6 speed box was that the final drive is the same as the 5 speed FWD box. Therefore changing the internals for a VRS setup would be no "worse" than a 6 speed box for motorway cruising.

[EddyH]

As well as the diff issue I understand the 5spd is more prone to stripping gears. I'm still investigating the 6spd option at the moment as I will be ultimately running upto 40% more power than Stuart currently does so need the gearbox to be as strong/reliable as possible.

[Goochie]

Originally Posted by EddyH

I will be ultimately running upto 40% more power than Stuart currently

I feel sorry for the Haldex!

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by TaviaRS

Would the box from an Octy 2 4x4 TDi fit?

Not sure but knowing how long the gears are in my Ibiza I think it'd be totally unsuitable fitting a diesel box.

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by Goochie

I feel sorry for the Haldex!

I already have a spare just in case. It should be ok though as it has a relief valve should it's torque limit be reached.

[DaveH]

Originally Posted by EddyH

for the power/torque I intend to be running soon.

Originally Posted by EddyH

I will be ultimately running upto 40% more power than Stuart currently does.

Come on Mr, spill the beans, what on earth you got planned? Will you still let me drive it in return for a drive in mine.

[MaxLugo]

Originally Posted by Goochie

I feel sorry for the Haldex!

Nah, i dont think he's planning to produce more than 1770lb-ft (2400nm)

Originally Posted by EddyH

I will be ultimately running upto 40% more power than Stuart currently does

Stuart is pushing 250hp, so x1.40 = 350hp ? More or less? Could it be a highly tuned t3/t4 setup?
I know of a couple of guys around here that are running t3/t4 .50 trim, which spools fairly quick and delivers good power (320-340hp at the wheels)

The stock diff is likely to disagree with you at above 300hp

[TKW]

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

If the said Octy 4x4 owner had problems, its surely a haldex car equipped issue. As the quattro is a totally different system I wouldn't get you hopes up mate.

A little before your time , but Mattijs put a nice post here which you might find helpful

[TKW]

Originally Posted by MaxLugo

Stuart is pushing 250hp

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by MaxLugo

Nah, i dont think he's planning to produce more than 1770lb-ft (2400nm)

Stuart is pushing 250hp, so x1.40 = 350hp ? More or less? Could it be a highly tuned t3/t4 setup?
I know of a couple of guys around here that are running t3/t4 .50 trim, which spools fairly quick and delivers good power (320-340hp at the wheels)

The stock diff is likely to disagree with you at above 300hp

The figures you're quoting are the not the engine torque, the actual torque at the the haldex is much higher. I believe things start getting difficult around 600ftlb engine torque and I don't intend to be dong that.

I think you'll find you're a little out of date on Stuart's power.

[Leeboy]

Originally Posted by MaxLugo

Stuart is pushing 250hp, so x1.40 = 350hp ? More or less? Could it be a highly tuned t3/t4 setup?

Although Stuart will be along shortly I guess, your above estimate is well short of Stuart's output now he is running a Jabba IHI conversion, I will let him give you the exact figure.

Eddy, you could of course make your internals pretty much bomb proof and replace them for Quaife cogs; a 6 speed set up is available for sure for the O2J box as used in FWD Octys, is this the same for 4WD variants? Only draw back is that the operation as I understand requires some modification to the gearbox casing but it can be done.

Then you need to trace the next weakest link which I guess will be the front drive shafts and so it goes on.....

[DaveH]

I know how much, I know how much!!

Its not my place to tell though, I'm sure Eddy will reveal all when hes good and ready. Trust me, it'll be worth the wait...

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by DaveH

I know how much, I know how much!!

Its not my place to tell though, I'm sure Eddy will reveal all when hes good and ready. Trust me, it'll be worth the wait...

Nothing to hide just don't want to say until it's proven. Lets just say it'll be comfortably over 400bhp.

[SkodiRS]

Originally Posted by MaxLugo

Nah, i dont think he's planning to produce more than 1770lb-ft (2400nm)




Stuart is pushing 250hp, so x1.40 = 350hp ? More or less? Could it be a highly tuned t3/t4 setup?
I know of a couple of guys around here that are running t3/t4 .50 trim, which spools fairly quick and delivers good power (320-340hp at the wheels)

The stock diff is likely to disagree with you at above 300hp

Stuart is running above 350bhp with a modified box running RS internals.

I'm running 340bhp on a standard RS box and clutch......will upgrade both at some point.

[DGW]

350 bhp + 40% = 490 bhp!

[EddyH]

Originally Posted by DGW

350 bhp + 40% = 490 bhp!

Yeah, that's the top end of it's capability, whether or not I decide to run that high, I haven't decided yet.