Replacement of Cam belts

[Clunkclick]

Just booked my Fabia 16v Saloon in for its annual service, MOT, brake fluid change.

Dealer advised that Skoda recommend that the Cam belts would need changing at a cost of approx. £300 as the vehicle is 6 years old.

My initial reponse was no, as the vehicle has only done 40,000 miles to date, most of it suburban driving with the occasional fast motorway run.

Having myself prematurely changed the belts on previous cars of mine, including a twin cam Alfa Sud, in my opinion it was a waste of money to do it early - the Alfa's belts were in good condition at a similar mileage and weren't enlcosed, protecting them from wear and tear, unlike the Furby.

The dealer's representative said I would have to sign a waiver of rights if I refused !

Any views on the dealer recommended action and price ?

Nick

Edited 9 February, 2009 by Clunkclick

[dfullb]

Mileage is not always the wearing out factor, The Age also has to be considered & 6 years in my views is pushing it.

The visual appearence of the belt Etc is nothing to go buy & also imagine how many rotations the tensioner has done in all that time. At the end of the day it is by Far cheaper to replace the belt & tensioner than it is to replace the Engine...

As for cost, You could get it done cheaper elsewhere independantly.#

Dean

[ming]

My Furby vRS is now 4 years old, 38K miles and having trawled the local dealer and independent sources I settled on main dealer (Henry's, Glasgow) at £289.00. This price includes the t/b kit + water pump + auxiliary belt and a 2 year guarantee. Incidentally, one independent, for same package but without guarantee quoted £390.00, so it's not always the case that the independents are cheaper. Must say, in their defence, though, in my experience the indys are usually significantly cheaper.

Why Henry's are so competitive on price on this occasion, I don't know but that's what I'm paying. Goes in tomorrow.

[Clunkclick]

Just had a quick shufti in the Haynes manual and it states the following:-

" EVERY 60000 miles

Renew the timing belt (Section 29)

Note:

Skoda specify timing belt inspection after the first 60,000 miles and then every 20,000 miles until the renewal interval of 120,000 miles, however, if the vehicle is used mainly for short journeys, we recommend that this shorter renewal interval is adhered to. The belt renewal interval is very much up to the individual owner but, bearing in mind that severe engine damage will result if the belt breaks in use, we recommend the shorter interval".

That sounds right to me. I can't see why either Skoda or Haynes would fib about this. So I assuming that the belt is specified to last 120,000 miles

I note that an "INSP service" , which is the major one (every two years), includes an inspection of the auxillary drive belt. To view the auxillary belt a cover has to be removed and this also reveals one part of both of the cam belts. No doubt a couple of spots of white paint/tippex and a bit of judicious cranking will allow the full run of each cam belt to be inspected.

The LCD service display in the instrument binnacle is currently flashing "INSP service", so there's no reason why the cam belts can't be inspected whilst the Auxillary belt is being looked at. What do we pay professional mechanics and service technicians for, if it isn't, where the occasion demands it, to exercise their professional judgement.

So, I'm not convinced that preventative renewal after 40,000, irrespective of condition is necessary. Inspect and renew at this point only if there is there is obvious damage/wear.

My old VW Golf Mk 1, went on to 72,000 without a belt change (The body work died before the engine did) and, interestingly the Haynes manual for this made no mention of a belt change !

Nick

Edited 9 February, 2009 by Clunkclick

[dfullb]

You pay's your Money & Takes your Risks, At the end of the Day it is your Choice.

Have you seen how brittle a belt can become after a few years !!?? Although visually it looks fine, Once removed & viewed properly, It is a different story.

It sounds like you have your heart set on not changing by convincing yourself it is/will be Ok, It may well be, It may Not , How long is a piece of string Etc.. In theory by not changing, You are increasing your chances of failure...

Cheers

Dean

Edited 11 February, 2009 by DGW
No need to quote previous post.

[Tech1e]

I would seriously reconsider on the 1.4 16v, they are pretty well known for lobbing belts off and dodgy rollers.

[ultra_joel88]

At the risk of being blunt, I'd say stop being a tight git and get it done.

If you plan to keep the car a while longer for the sake of £280 I'd rather have peace of mind rather than worrying about the belt snapping and having the hassle of a new engine.

If you know better than the manufacturer, then good luck to you.

[Clunkclick]

I would seriously reconsider on the 1.4 16v, they are pretty well known for lobbing belts off and dodgy rollers.

Are there any tell-tale warning signs of this in terms of engine malfunction that can be easily recognised by the driver ? Apart from the obvious one !

Nick

[numptie-boy]

80000 miles is the recommended interval for timing belt replacement on the Fabia diesels and there is no reason to replace sooner.

[mannyo]

The haynes manual is wrong, the recommended belt change interval is 60,000 miles OR 4 years whichever occurs first. The service book may say one thing, but that was when the book was printed. The service regime is constantly being revised.

As Ross has already mentioned the belt might not fail, but the running gear the belt is on is known to have issues on the 1.4. Look at it another way, around £300 this time round or well over £1K if the belt comes off the rollers or breaks. The plastic perishes with age and not mileage and can snap or crack.

The dealer is right to get you to sign a disclaimer, as you will be going agains the recommended change interval and they do not want any comeback if the thing breaks or comes off the rollers in the future.

[Clunkclick]

Manny,

Points noted.

Do you know what parts they replace within the £300 ?

Would the water pump need to be replaced on this petrol engine ?

Nick

[Tech1e]

80000 miles is the recommended interval for timing belt replacement on the Fabia diesels and there is no reason to replace sooner.

True but the OP has a 16v Fabia.

[Tech1e]

Manny,

Points noted.

Do you know what parts they replace within the £300 ?

Would the water pump need to be replaced on this petrol engine ?

Nick

Cambelt kit inc

Main cambelt

Camshaft Cambelt

Main tensioner

Camshaft tensioner

Relay roller (x2)

Plus you may as well do the water pump whilst your there.

TBH I'd charge around £300 as there are alot of parts there so its a pretty good price.

[Clunkclick]

This Honest John report echoes what's been said above by posters above, but also says that that the belt usually stays on if the tensioner fails:-

Car review: Skoda Fabia (2000 - 2007)

I don't think I'll take the risk, especially if the cr*p weather here decides me to holiday abroad this year.

By all accounts, the 3 cylinder HTP engine in the new Polo/HTP Furby is even worse:-

Car review: Volkswagen Polo (2002-2005)

Nick

[jasc1988]

60k or 4 years...

lot cheaper than if it goes wrong

[Tech1e]

By all accounts, the 3 cylinder HTP engine in the new Polo/HTP Furby is even worse:-

Nick

I've never known a chain to snap, but they can slip. this is however 9 times out of 10 due to low engine oil. the 1.2 6v for example holds 2.8 litres of oil from empty to the top of the dipstick. Now you go down to the bottom of the dipstick and you have lost a third of the total quanity of engine oil. take a corner and that oil pressure will drop, the tensioner will relax and it all goes wrong. 6v can just be re timed, 12v will bend valves.

[Soot1e]

Just booked my Fabia 16v Saloon in for its annual service, MOT, brake fluid change.

Dealer advised that Skoda recommend that the Cam belts would need changing at a cost of approx. £300 as the vehicle is 6 years old.

My initial reponse was no, as the vehicle has only done 40,000 miles to date, most of it suburban driving with the occasional fast motorway run.

Having myself prematurely changed the belts on previous cars of mine, including a twin cam Alfa Sud, in my opinion it was a waste of money to do it early - the Alfa's belts were in good condition at a similar mileage and weren't enlcosed, protecting them from wear and tear, unlike the Furby.

The dealer's representative said I would have to sign a waiver of rights if I refused !

Any views on the dealer recommended action and price ?

Nick

You say you have always changed belts on other cars ontime, so have you ever had cambelt snap, probably not, precisely. Nuff said.

[ELI_VRS]

60k or 4 years...

lot cheaper than if it goes wrong

Yeah I've got a mate who works for VAG and this is what he says.

Got to book mine in soon done nearly 60k, got a price of £285 from Skoda so might well go with them for the guarantee - peace of mind and all that.

[Clunkclick]

You say you have always changed belts on other cars ontime, so have you ever had cambelt snap, probably not, precisely. Nuff said.

I changed 'em early on the 'Sud 'cause it was a second hand car which I discovered, after purchase, had been badly treated by the previous owners - But IMHO the belt change wasn't really necessary. Whereas the Golf's went on to 72,000 miles unchanged.

Anyway, got written advice today from Skoda Customer Services - the renewal interval is 4 years now.

That being the case, it leaves me wondering why my dealer didn't insist on belt renewal in 2007 ? - the car, you recall, was new in 2003. Unless, of course the renewal requirenment has altered since March 2007. Can anybody throw any light of this ?

Nick

[Clunkclick]

In response to the above, the silence was deafening- that is apart from the distressed lady, of obvious Latino extraction, who has been leaving answerphone messages on my 1571 service over the last two days saying that her car that's blown-up and what am I going to do about it ? No tel number volunteered !

So, I'll have to respond. Lets thicken the plot a little, with a series of postings from an "Honest John" forum.

Skoda Fabia - Cam belt change: Motoring Discussion forum

POST 1

"VAG" haven't revised their cambelt change recommendations - VAG UK have. As far as I can see, they have declared unilaterally that there is a 4 year (+ mileage) limit for cambelts. There is no proper paperwork to support this - all of the printed literature with the vehicle refers to VAG D recommendations. The cambelt change information I have from the Milton Keynes brigade is on scrappy bits of paper, "typewritten".

I believe this to be a VAG UK scam. There is no parallel recommendation anywhere else in the world as far as I can establish. It's a neat trick - it doesn't detract from fleet sales and brings valuable dealer revenue from worried private owners with a newish car which they still want to "cherish". (If I cherished mine, the last place I'd take it would be to a VAG dealer).

The PD engine places a substantial load in the belt, which is dimensioned to suit and is of reputable manufacture with a metal tensioner wheel. My AWX diesel will get its first new cambelt when it is 5 years old. The OE water pumps with plastic impellers are rubbish so a metal one will be fitted at the same time.

659.

POST 2

I changed my cambelt on my 90bhp AHU tdi at 9 years and 75,000 miles. The original cambelt and tensioner were in very good condition with no cracking/damage or roughness detectable.

Interestingly Continental who supply a lot of the cambelts to VW claim their belts are a lifetime item (on their website)

Nick

[rum4mo]

You have now forced me to jump into this discussion with one and only one posting - maybe others have now given up on you - do you blame them?

As said already, the belts do not tend to fail in these engines, it is the tensioner/rollers idlers that fail and compromise the belt and engine. VAG were on a hiding to nowhere so VAG-UK just rolled out new replacement periods for all current models a few years ago - maybe just to simplify things and maybe to generate a bit more service business. Either way, if I were you I'd stop wasting time speculating on the "hows" and "whys" and "what ifs" and just get this work done. On my wife's BBY engine my indie VAG place also changed an extra roller as it was not supplied in the kit at that time (about 2 years ago) as he had seen too many damaged engines caused by this roller that was not normally changed.

The Haynes belt change info just should not exist as things like that tend to change with time/experience - always use "live" info for this - ie main dealers. AutoData are smarter and tend to keep this info on-line - ie "live".

I'd think mainly that you will first notice that you have run out of luck when the engine goes in an expensive way!

Honest John is a good source of some bits of info, but if you are really sure that he is right in claiming that this is a VAG scam to generate huge lumps of money, then I'd say - go ahead, believe him - but will he give you the cash to rebuild your engine if the worst happens? I'd check up on that if I were you seeing as you trust him.

[national]

Are there any tell-tale warning signs of this in terms of engine malfunction that can be easily recognised by the driver ? Apart from the obvious one !

Nick

Just the obvious one I am afraid

I had a PUG drove it out of the garage after a full service 40k and 1OOyds down the road Bang New engine (well that or rods, pistons, valves, head and labour which is about the same cost)

Haynes manual and Service book were printed with the thoghts at the time, not after several years of knowledge and indeed the recommended now is 60k or Four years whichever is soonest

Had mine done at 40k four years by an independant excellent job

STAR PERFORMANCE even fitted a water pump with "metal" impeller at an excellent quote

You will find when the belt is off and examined although it looks perfect on the pulleys

that it is full of tiny splits that you could not previously see because it was held taught under tension Not to mention the actual tension pullies themselves

You will sleep better even though you have pulled out a rake of money

Can you "afford" to take the chance perhaps not if you are baulking at spending £300

What will you do tomorrow when it is £3k apart from cry and purchase a travel card for transport

The current ideal is 60k or Four years trust me

National

[numptie-boy]

True but the OP has a 16v Fabia.

Yeah, lot of people speaking about all models though. Quoting the mileage stated on back of Skoda service sheets

[Tech1e]

Yeah, lot of people speaking about all models though. Quoting the mileage stated on back of Skoda service sheets

The service sheets are now out of date and only sheets off ELSA should be used.

['daiking']

Honest John is a good source of some bits of info, but if you are really sure that he is right in claiming that this is a VAG scam to generate huge lumps of money, then I'd say - go ahead, believe him - but will he give you the cash to rebuild your engine if the worst happens? I'd check up on that if I were you seeing as you trust him.

To be fair, that's not Honest John's advice, The information comes from the forum over there, much like advice on briskoda. And actually, the bit about the scam is made by a poster on that forum (659FBE) who I know is also a prolific poster on the Superb sub-forum of Briskoda.