seeking help - oil pump failure issue on 2.0TDi

[Andy Mc]

Sorry Skodanut, but the BSS engine has the gear driven balance shaft/ oilpump setup and is prone to failure in both the gears and the hexdrive to oil pump. Nothing to do with oil quality, roto is right, just appalling design

[devonutopia]

I've ran my engine (for a few seconds only though) with no oil in the sump and nothing wrong. Chances are there was enough residual oil for those few seconds and there was little chance of enough heat being generated to create wear. I say get Skoda to fix it, and relax again. If these TDIs caused damage from running for a tiny while with low pressure, then they'd be generally breaking down left, right & centre, which just doesn't happen.

[skodanut]

i must say this is very depressing reading.....so what are the alternatives? i plan to keep the car for as long as possible due to climatic conditions ......would it be much of a job to remove the associated components and replace with new? or continue with more frequent oil changes and keep an ey on the oil pressures? kind regards andy

[skodanut]

ive read up on that honest john who mentions that the oil pick up pipe can become blocked with sludge ..i would imagine from poor servicing......my dads old type passat had the oil starvation and lost a cylinder head because of it and snapped a timing belt.......took sump off and you wudnt believe how choked up the pick up pipe was......we took it off and imersed it in a chemical called MEK and it basically dissolved everything that was causing the problem leaving a pick up pipe looking like new.....though for good measure and back up....we did make a couple of smaller holes in order to improve the flow of oil being sucked around the engine.....would this be the case in the 2.0ltr tdi superbs that we are disscussing here? like blaming the oil pump when its something quite simple?

[Supurbia]

It ain't oil mate, it's a part that ain't up to task, last time I saw this was on a Fiat engine in 92 where the same thing happend to the brake assistance pump, it's not good enough and they should recall.

BTW the part that fails is �3.

[cheezemonkhai]

So £3 plus how much to drop the sump, clean it all out and replace that part?

Typically what is the mileage the part lasts, and then put it into the service schedule as a cost when you're working out how much the car will run.

Seems pretty poor.

What's the chance of getting a few of these made out of something better suited to resisting the forces that cause the wear. Wonder if a higher quality steel or titanium part would be any stronger, and while it might cost £30 each to get a few made, not having to drop the sump and worry about this means it might be worth it.

[rotodiesel]

We pay VAG to do the engine development.

In the case of the balancer shaft engines, the engineers clearly forgot the torsional stresses generated by driving a pair of weighted shafts at 2x engine speed. Unless you design it well (see the PSA 2.2 HDi engine) these torsional forces will knock hell out of the drive components + the oil pump hex coupling which is on the end of it all.

It also clearly follows that they didn't bother with any endurance testing.

If they **** it up, then go somewhere else. I'd be a lot more patient if MK treated their customers fairly, rather than like some kind of revenue-generating dirt.

I forgive anyone a **** up - it's the way an organisation puts it right which is the real test of their integrity.

rotodiesel.

Edited 21 October, 2009 by rotodiesel

[cheezemonkhai]

I agree it's cr*p and they should find a solution, but on that basis, prevention is better than lining their pockets time and time again for repairs. (Even if you sell it on somebody else will repair it)

[skodanut]

well having read these threads and deliberating over the issues some members have voiced with their cars, i still cant get my head over the fact that these pumps fail due to wear and tear. I dont know if i am right or wrong,but every part of the engine is fed with oil via the oil pump, and i'm sure the oil pump itself, ie gearing and hex shaft, is also lubricated with oil via drillings in the engine block, so in effect wear and tear on those components should be kept to a minimum...which brings back to my philosophy, that the problem is mainly caused by lack of oil pressure due to the pick up pipe in the sump being coated with a baked on film of clogged sludge/oil additives maybe.

This in turn would reduce oil pressure going to the vitals of the engine inc the oil pump drive and gearing...any reduced pressure, even if the oil pressure switch isnt illuninated will give a false sense of security that oil pressure is fine, meanwhile the engine lubrication system is slowly building up to what roto described as a coronary. Maybe it would be benificial to purchase a sump gasket and of course fresh oil and filter and have a look and see what is happening inside the sump, and clean the oil strainer pick up pipe, as if a warning light appears on the dash despicting low oil level or low pressure, then investigations have to start at the bottom of the engine and work up before condeming the oil pump. Also looking inside the oil filler cap might be a good indication to see if oil is reaching the cylinder head..as when you look inside the head should be litterally smothered in oil..if it doesnt then that alone maybe an indication of oil starvation...so although the posts were somewhat alarming and in some cases proving to be very expensive, i still firmly believe that the problem starts down in the sump and festers upwards..i have had the good fortune to purshase my car brand new, and therefore i know the servicing it has had, and it is way above the spec advised by skoda..but i will be buying a warranty when the main dealer one expires in january.

[mikey vrs]

you saw them coming, over 6K for an engine that done 104,000, ridiculous.

He means he fitted a brand new engine to a 56 plate that had done 104.000m.

[rotodiesel]

Skodanut, The problem is that these parts are hopelessly over stressed for their size. You need very substantial drive components for the twin Lanchester shafts (as they really are) to withstand the huge cyclic torque variations - remember these two shafts are deliberately unbalanced and run at 2x crank speed. I have a gut feeling that VAG may also have a resonance problem with this design which would wreck it very quickly - but I would need an instrumented engine on a test bed to find that.

VAG were clearly being outdone by the competition (Ford/PSA) and had to enlarge their engines to the "magic" 2 litres to appease the marketing men. At the same time, they needed to address the NVH (noise vibration & harshness) problem - which gets a lot worse as the engine gets bigger, in order to remain competitive. Hence the Lanchester shafts.

There was clearly a rush to do this, but they also had to design the common rail engines at the same time because of impending Euro V and onwards legislation, which the PD could never meet due to the impracticality of providing DPF burnoff fuel with a unit injector system.

Maybe the apprentice got the job of re-vamping the PD engine. They actually had 2 goes at it - the BHW engine has a chain driven balancer assembly (fortunately never fitted to the Superb). This was a real disaster - they had to market a gear drive retrofit kit.

The best oil in the world won't fix an incorrect design. Sorry.

rotodiesel.

Edited 22 October, 2009 by rotodiesel

[Keith Lard]

Is there a definitive list of the engine codes that suffer this? Or is it relevant to ALL 2.0 TDI engine codes?

[Supurbia]

More to the point has it been rectified with an upgrade, or are they simply shoving another weak spindle in it.

[skodanut]

i guess we'll never know if we have the misfortune of having a failed oil pump..personally i feel who ever gets the job to fix it, i dont think they would fit a 3 quid spindle...be much better to fit a new pump complete....and wait another 3odd years for it to fail again....or it might not even fail at all !

I intend to purchase a decent warranty for my superb when the manufacturer one runs out in january....better to do that than than worry ones self to death over 3 quid spindle that cud ruin a 6k engine.......as for codes keith...my engine is BSS...but other codes are affected as well..lets hope some members forward them on here..kind regards andy

[rotodiesel]

You guys should be getting to know VAG by now - "rectified with an upgrade" - joke.

I'd be first in the queue to have the lousy plenum drain and pollen filter housing seal problem fixed for free if this were the case.

VAG don't give a toss about the rubbish they've sold - the PD is dead. No doubt the CR diesels will reveal their very own set of problems in due course - and VAG won't want to know...

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

i assume roto that the owners of volswagon and audi will also be suffering from the same problems then? after all, all skoda does is use their engines and spare parts bin......so basically were all in it together

[Supurbia]

i assume roto that the owners of volswagon and audi will also be suffering from the same problems then? after all, all skoda does is use their engines and spare parts bin......so basically were all in it together

That's true sadly, it's not a Skoda problem, Passat's are failing I know, as for Audi's I can't say, but I'd bet it's still happening, but as it's the flag brand it's probably keeping it's customer happy and quiet, Roto is right about the customer care, I had to ring SUcK when I couldn't get my dealer to fix my car, 3 ppl I delt with, 1 was a young lady who wanted to help, 2 was a guy who seemed to understand and advised me to seek a new set of eyes, and finally the 3rd, the manageress basically told me "we aren't interested go away and sort it between yourself and the dealer" never had that from VX before, and although I really have enjoyed my Superb I doub't I will buy anymore VAG stock on the strength of her attitude, and now with this engine fault, which a friend of mine has endured at 80k I can't see me risking it again, oh, and the dealer isn't interested and I don't wish to drive 30 miles to maybe find the next nearest is just as bad.

[skodanut]

Just out of curiosity...does anyone know how many 2.0tdi superbs skoda have sold? i would imagine in the hundreds in the uk alone....the reason i asked , is that if skoda know of an impending problem regarding these suspect poor designed oil pumps, then why the ****ens dont they do a recall?

After all their slogan is THE MANUFACTURER OF HAPPY DRIVERS.

Well just on this thread alone there are two owners with problems with countless others driving around unaware of the issues lurking inside their engines.

Surely there must be some kind of leverage one can use to get skoda to hold their hands up and admit yes we have a problem......and get these issues sorted.

[Supurbia]

Just out of curiosity...does anyone know how many 2.0tdi superbs skoda have sold? i would imagine in the hundreds in the uk alone....the reason i asked , is that if skoda know of an impending problem regarding these suspect poor designed oil pumps, then why the ****ens dont they do a recall?

After all their slogan is THE MANUFACTURER OF HAPPY DRIVERS.

Well just on this thread alone there are two owners with problems with countless others driving around unaware of the issues lurking inside their engines.

Surely there must be some kind of leverage one can use to get skoda to hold their hands up and admit yes we have a problem......and get these issues sorted.

Because there is every chance it won't fail withing the 60k limit, and after that they can wash their hands of you.

[rotodiesel]

Slogans are cheap.

Designing things properly takes engineering knowledge, hard work and money.

Doing the right thing to provide and sustain a product of lasting value to a customer means being honest.

VAG are good at (1), sometimes good at (2) and have never been any good at (3).

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

Well as i've mentioned, the maufacturer warranty expires in january and the car will possibly have done around 35k...and i'm thinking of purchasing a warranty from warranty direct.

They quoted me £208 for what looks like a comprehensive list of items they will cover...oil pump included....has anyone used this warranty at all? and do you think they are any good?

Any comments welcome.......and thanks to those who have given an insight as to what problems the superb has...although deep down, i still feel that with careful maintenance the cars will last quite a while and give us miles and miles of trouble free motoring with affordable running costs. regards.andy

[charlie6]

Just out of curiosity...does anyone know how many 2.0tdi superbs skoda have sold? i would imagine in the hundreds in the uk alone....the reason i asked , is that if skoda know of an impending problem regarding these suspect poor designed oil pumps, then why the ****ens dont they do a recall?

After all their slogan is THE MANUFACTURER OF HAPPY DRIVERS.

Well just on this thread alone there are two owners with problems with countless others driving around unaware of the issues lurking inside their engines.

Surely there must be some kind of leverage one can use to get skoda to hold their hands up and admit yes we have a problem......and get these issues sorted.

My 2ltr.140 superb has been in a local (quality) garage for the past three weeks 57 plate, it's used as a taxi and has done just over 120k miles. Fully serviced, cam belts changed early etc. etc. It developed a knocking sound so i took it to the garage....cam shaft worn,(replaced) injector loop replaced,got the car back. Next day the turbo blew, (replaced) then they found the oil pump was buggered and replaced that too. That's when they found out that the oil pump was the "problem" Now the big end bearings need to be replaced. I called Skoda uk and asked them if the pump was causing problems and they said "we have no issues with any oil pump problems" My garage tells me that if this doesn't solve the problem i'm looking at a new engine....HELLLLLLP !!

Edited 4 May, 2010 by charlie6

[Fred Bloggs]

Sympathies. Trouble is, that with ~120k on the clock, the engine will cost more than the car is worth.

[charlie6]

After all the replacement parts i've had in the past two weeks i'm finally told i need a new engine, as i said earlier Skoda U.K. said they have no issue with oil pump problems.

During a conversation with the service manager at my local dealership he let slip that two Superbs have had to have engines replaced because of a "known" issue with oil pump failure this year,luckily for the owners this was covered under warranty. But because i've had all my servicing etc. done at a local garage, no goodwill would be shown by Skoda. I pointed out that that was a crock of s"%&e all my service history was perfect and done before the due intervals and 100% vat registered with gen. or reputable parts provided. He told me he would try and get a goodwill discount on a new engine costing around £5k

I have contacted the legal dept. at the RAC and have been told that if i can find out if there was an oil pump issue when i bought the vehicle and could prove that other vehicles were having trouble at the same time, then i would be home dry and under SECTION 14 of the SALE OF GOODS ACT i would be entitled to a new engine.

Now the good bit, i'm hoping you good people can help. Has anyone else had a problem like this since September 07 ?

The culprit is a HEXAGON pipe, it wears to a rounded shape causing the pump to fail and i now have one. ( the lil bastid )

PLEASE, CAN ANYONE HELP HERE ????

[rotodiesel]

Rounding of the hex oil pump drive coupling is an absolutely standard fault on this 2.0 PD engine. It occurs because the pump is driven via the two contra-rotating weight carrying balance shafts. The torsional oscillation induced by these weights frets the corners off the shaft.

I'm sure you will find plenty of people who have had the same problem - but to widen the field, get your engine identifier code (usually 3 letters) and ask on VW and Audi sites. I really doubt whether you will get any redress from VAG - they will wriggle out of all their (serious) design errors and they certainly don't give a toss about the customer. Toyota are saints by comparison.

I will not deal with VAG again due to all the pre-existing serious design faults on the Superb (eg rain water ingress) which they knew all about on the Passat before the Superb was made. There's even a VW branded TSB outlining the fix.

Don't waste any time or money on this car and life's far too short to argue with the VAG jackboot brigade. Fit a s/h engine from a scrap car and sell it.

rotodiesel.