seeking help - oil pump failure issue on 2.0TDi

[rwbaldwin]

Agree with rotodiesel.

The Superb 1 is the VAG problem child that VAG have washed their hands of. The only Superb 1s i've had anything to do with are those mates who have mistakenly bought one. All of them have had at least one expensive problem.

A good example of how VAG treat this car, is the problem with water ingress into the brake servo. This is a well know problem on the Superb 1 but VAG don't want to know and will not issue any kind of recall stating that it is not a safety issue. BUT, on the Octavia, there is a recall for a problem affecting the servo assisted braking.

The VW variant is the Passat B5.5. If you take a look at the VW forums, you will find a very long list of problems, mostly caused by poor design.

If you are unlucky, the Superb 1 can become a money pit.

[rotodiesel]

But, to be absolutely fair - if you get a 1.9 PD Superb and sort out the c0ckups, you have a cheap, comfortable car which goes well and is economical. I just can't get to grips with the idea of paying VAG good money for a car and then having to spend my time (but not much money) putting the design faults right. The money I gave them was honestly earned.

Obviously, the 2.0 PD engine is a non-starter.

So, buyer beware - let's hope the Internet sorts out these dishonest traders such as the M-K brigade. "Never heard of oil pump failure on a 2.0 PD" - Liars.

rotodiesel.

[samson1]

so at approx what milage does the oil pump wear out?

[rotodiesel]

There seems to be quite a wide variation as you might expect. I suspect VAG may have a resonance problem in the balancer drive train and the wear on the pump coupling will therefore depend on how long the engine has operated at its critical speed. So, I can't say.

For a laugh, why don't you ask your local dealer and post here what he says...

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

If only they had the honesty to own up and say yes we the volkswagon group have fitted a suspect oil pump on the following models........but they wont.....incidentally....how much of a job is it to actually remove the pump and fit a new one? any idea's out there?

[samson1]

what i want to know is how many of us members have had to replace the oil pump ? and rotodiesel what is critical speed? yes i will ask my dealer dm keith bradford and also a local independant skoda/vw in bingley west yorkshire .we need find a percentage number if poss

[rotodiesel]

To investigate this problem you would need an instrumented engine on a test bed operating under variable speed and load. The PD engine is dead and there is no chance whatever of VAG doing any remedial work on it - especially as most of these engines will make it to the end of the warranty period.

We know from the Superb's water ingress problem that VAG have no interest in honouring their products - they made the bloody thing like that in the full knowledge from day 1 of the Superb's production that Passats were leaking all over the place. The same applies to all the other design faults in this car.

You just have to understand the kind of people you are dealing with and vote with your cheque book. If you can't live with the uncertainty of a 2.0 PD, get rid of it.

rotodiesel.

Edited 10 May, 2010 by rotodiesel

[samson1]

if thats the answer. can i suggest you get rid of your1.9 and move on man!

[rotodiesel]

The 1.9 has a completely different oil pump drive and does not suffer from this type of failure.

rotodiesel.

[Supurbia]

The 1.9 has a completely different oil pump drive and does not suffer from this type of failure.

rotodiesel.

All this anti Superb talk (I don't mean you Roto, not this time anyway) is unfair, that 1.9 lump is one of the best diesel engines I've ever come across, the 2.0 PD with the problem is the ones fitted to the B6 on launch, the engine is a BKP engine, and it appeared in Passat's until around the 56 plate era, and in the Superb all the way to the end iirc, the later BKP has a modified oil pump in it, VAG have so many different 2.0 PD's it untrue, and a word of advice, if the engine is a BMP one walk away, this denotes a DPF, anyway, my 1.9 did 101k without any issues to the engine (I expect it was that GM oil I fed it that made it last) and the car cost me an alternator and battery in 3 years of owning it, I got a bucket more PX for it than I would've with an equivilent Vectra and I enjoyed owning that car, yes the flood could catch you out, yes she was hard on tyres, and yes she was a boat at cornering, but she made up for it in other area's.

As for the pump issue, I had a mate suffer it, iirc it happens around 75k, and it takes the turbo with it, he told me getting it fixed at an Indy came to about 1k, buying the Turbo direct, he was lucky it gave out at low speed, other's aren't so lucky and kill the engine, VAG should own up, but as Roto states, they are nothing short of Arthur Daily when it comes to dodging a bill, and should be legally brought to book about their etiquette towards their customer's, all car's have an achillies tbh, the Superb gets it in the neck because it shows the other's up, including VW, I'm wondering how the CR's will fare, too early to tell right now, and one final thing, when you read about people moaning about the car, it's not always the car, a bad driver or non servicing one can expect to have problem's, if you ram kerbs, you will do the suspension and steering in, if you red line it all the time, you will stress the drive train, however if you maintain filters, and don't hit things most car's don't give a lot of trouble.

This is what I recommend

Tank treatment every 30k

Oil & Filter - 10k use synth oil.

Air/Pollen/Fuel filters every 20k

Tyre pressure once a week.

Clean inside and out once a week, use shampoo not washing up liquid, remove stains on seats asap

I know what the book say's but the book is for fleet scrooges, it's too late now, but if i had a 2.0 PD with the pump problem I'd be flushing every 10k as well, the wear could well be a result of lack of oil flow, iirc these engines also have issues with the oil strainer.

And good luck Charlie, I really hope you get a new lump out of them, but you could fall into fair wear and tear on this at 120k, I know the engine should triple that mileage, but in the eyes of a judge whose knowledge of a car is to turn the key it will look like it did more than a 100k so that's fine.

[roman.w]

I could not agree with you any more Supurbia, If you look after the basics the rest look after themselves.

[skodanut]

well having a good read on these threads, i'd like to add my 10pence worth...i have one of those so called dreaded 2.0ltr tdi 140 bhp superbs as some members prefer to call them and basically write certain issues that give my car and other owners a worrying time over engine problems and what have you. As you can imagine, it all seems doom and gloom and certain owners getting the wind up over wether they have purchased a bad car from the dealers.

Well in my case i have bought my car from new, and probably being one of the last of the mk1 facelift superbs that were around at the time, and in all honestly having read these threads, my car in certain minds of some people on here, should be suffering from alsorts of problems from dpf issues to oil pump failures and water ingress problems to name a few. Now this car does a lot of very short journeys and is never driven above 30mph in that time, and occasionally we take the car out for a nice long drive and to be honest i dont have any of the issues that are mentioned on here. I pride myself on good old fashioned servicing, and having read the service schedule booklet that came with the car, straight away i had a feeling some points of servicing was way too long, especially on the variable servicing.

I mean i know its nice to drive the car for high mileages before a service becomes due, but thats asking for trouble and coupled with high dealer service charges and consumables, which is why i service my superb every 6-8,000 miles with fresh oil and new filters...ok for some that might sound extreme, but i firmly believe that its the manufacturers schedules...ie long service intervals between oil changes that is actually causing these problems.After all the element in the oil filter for example is perishable over time, and to think of that slowly breaking down with hot oil flowing through it day after day week after week and one begins to wonder why the oil pick up pipe becomes clogged with sediment other than oil and the chain of events starts with oil pump failure due to lack of oil being filtered through the pick up pipe and then spreading through the engine right upto the turbo and then major engine problems and expense !!

When one considers the actual cost of a small oil filter which is under a tenner in some good motor factors, and then the cost of the oil, which can be had for around 30 quid and then the cabin and air filter, the actual basic service consumables are quite cheap compared to leaving it in the engine for say 15-20k miles and then paying around 250 quid minimum for the service, and by then the damage has already begun and wont be noticed till later on when the problems start to arise. I know rotodiesel is very knowledgeable in the work that he does, but everything stems from the oil in the sump...if the gauze on pick up pipe is blocked , even partially, then engine wear will be taking place, and hence the oil pump failures and turbo failures and emission problems and warning lights flashing up on instrument panel alarming drivers. So my message is there is nothing wrong with any superb wether it be the AWX engine or BSS or any other lettered vw based engine used in superbs, just service the cars twice as much and it will pay dividends in the long term mechanically...as the superb really is a nice motor, which is why i bought it.

[Gizmo]

Skodanut, it's really great news that you are having trouble free ownership, one thing i would say however is if you ever park the car outside then don't ignore the water ingress issue, as it WILL effect EVERY Superb (and Passat) that does not have the issues rectified, it may take 2 years it may be 10, but it WILL happen, as it just a poor design / materials used.

[rotodiesel]

Absolutely right. My car is always kept under cover so I delayed attending to the plenum chamber until fairly recently. When I had taken it all apart, the battery and its tray right out and the pollen filter holder and water channel out, it was evident what an appalling design it was and what a lousy choice of material VAG had made for the seal. Fortunately no water had got in.

The plenum bungs are absolutely asking to be blocked with biocrud, especially the one under the servo. Failure here makes the car dangerous. The filter housing seal is of open cell foam so it saturates with water, degrades and splits. It probably cost VAG 3p.

Bad design is just that, and in the case of the oil pump drive, no amount of oil changing and careful driving will make any difference to it. Oil pump drives don't fail on other engines - and you can't make them fail by not changing the oil or hammering the engine. Common sense.

rotodiesel.

[samson1]

has th bss engine got chain balancer shafts?

[rotodiesel]

No.

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

Well i have periodically taken the plenem cover off a couple of times to clear the debris ...ie twigs and leaves, and of course due to the placing of the battery, it is rather awkward to get a really good look inside the bulkhead. But i will be checking out the areas of complaint concerning the water ingress, and will take the appropiate action to minimize the possibilty of water inside the car when i have my annual holiday break.

The other evening when the sun was almost dipping below the horizon, the car looked just a picture in the fading light.....almost as if it was on one of the superb brochures...just reinforced my liking for this model...and hopefully trouble free ownership in the years ahead. I only wished i had a camera with me at the time and posted it up on here!

[Supurbia]

Well i have periodically taken the plenem cover off a couple of times to clear the debris ...ie twigs and leaves, and of course due to the placing of the battery, it is rather awkward to get a really good look inside the bulkhead. But i will be checking out the areas of complaint concerning the water ingress, and will take the appropiate action to minimize the possibilty of water inside the car when i have my annual holiday break.

The other evening when the sun was almost dipping below the horizon, the car looked just a picture in the fading light.....almost as if it was on one of the superb brochures...just reinforced my liking for this model...and hopefully trouble free ownership in the years ahead. I only wished i had a camera with me at the time and posted it up on here!

Like a good Whiskey, gets better with age, classic looker imo, took a B5 and made it into a proper bloke car.

[rotodiesel]

Having done the plenum chamber re-work according to the VW TSB (using the VW material) I would say that no B5.5 is safe in the rain until the job is fully done.

You can't shift the plenum bungs until the battery, battery tray and alarm sounder (nasty rusty cheap Italian job) are removed and the original sealing gasket holds water rather than keeping it out. Mine was split in two.

As I have often said, the Superb has its good points and mine has been very nearly 100% reliable, but the amount of preventative maintenance it has needed makes it a bit of a joke for the average punter to own. If you follow VAG's belt change recommendation for instance, the job costs a fortune. These costs added up are completely out of scale with the value of the vehicle. Toyota have no fears.

rotodiesel.

[roman.w]

Top tip that has worked for me, If you open the bonnet and look to your right from the offside wing ,there is a gap where you can see the plenum chamber, I spray Gunk down there avoiding the Servo and leave to soak for 20 min, I then rinse off with hot water. When i got round to moving the battery, The rubber bungs were clean as a cats arse.

[rotodiesel]

The problem with this design is that, apart from the crappy seal, the bungs have a "duck bill" extension underneath. This means that any leaves or other crud which gets in there will not go through the bungs and just sits there - blocking them up.

Perhaps Teutonic trees are calibrated with small leaves...

Park this car under a (UK) tree a few times and you will be in trouble - subsequent rain washes the dead leaves into the bung recesses and blocks them. The plenum chamber is like a giant funnel and all the leaves end up where you least want them.

If you drive an unmodified car down a motorway in pouring rain there's a fair chance the old pollen filter seal will leak even if the drains are free. Mine was in a disgusting state when I took it out.

It's not a very nice job - but straightforward enough. Wet electronics and trim are costly to fix. Take the battery and its tray right out (watch your back - it's a bad lift) and do the job properly - otherwise it will come back to bite you.

rotodiesel.

Edited 13 May, 2010 by rotodiesel

[sazelle]

HI Guys reading these threads let me tell you i wish I had seen them earlier I have the FABIA vRS currently in the local franchise ( since 29/03/2010) awaiting a ne wiring loom at a cost of 824 + vat + Fitting just over 1600 all in, The local dealers like to keep the plenum chambers a very big secret and I was not made aware of then untill it was too late, so keep checking them guy I know I will, if I decide to keep it, I am concerend with how it will perfom after this massive repair

[emartybarts]

After all the replacement parts i've had in the past two weeks i'm finally told i need a new engine, as i said earlier Skoda U.K. said they have no issue with oil pump problems.

During a conversation with the service manager at my local dealership he let slip that two Superbs have had to have engines replaced because of a "known" issue with oil pump failure this year,luckily for the owners this was covered under warranty. But because i've had all my servicing etc. done at a local garage, no goodwill would be shown by Skoda. I pointed out that that was a crock of s"%&e all my service history was perfect and done before the due intervals and 100% vat registered with gen. or reputable parts provided. He told me he would try and get a goodwill discount on a new engine costing around £5k

I have contacted the legal dept. at the RAC and have been told that if i can find out if there was an oil pump issue when i bought the vehicle and could prove that other vehicles were having trouble at the same time, then i would be home dry and under SECTION 14 of the SALE OF GOODS ACT i would be entitled to a new engine.

Now the good bit, i'm hoping you good people can help. Has anyone else had a problem like this since September 07 ?

The culprit is a HEXAGON pipe, it wears to a rounded shape causing the pump to fail and i now have one. ( the lil bastid )

PLEASE, CAN ANYONE HELP HERE ????

[Supurbia]

This is a VW money generation scheme, I have a B6 and guess what, the scuttle panel is secured by the wipers, which of course don't shift without a proper tool, and there's one run off in the drivers wing, which just happens to be big enough for a leaf to become a bung.

So not only are they still encouraging water retention, they now make it even harder to do routine clean outs of it.

[emartybarts]

hi i am about yo go through the same problem my car is going in this week withh suspected oil pump problem it is a 2008 elegance with just under 62000 miles and 2years and 3 months old

Oil pressure message came up and i stoped right away but now i have to see if skoda show any gd will let me know how u got on please