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#1 magictongue

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 13:23

Guys recently found a local motor factor called TPS who sold me 5 ltrs of VW507.00 oil for £25. this was way cheaper i found anywhere else.

Then found out Trade Part Specialist (TPS) are in fact owned by VW and offer better prices than GSF ( german sweedish and french) on almost all parts. Worth googling for your own area!!!

#2 Supurbia

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:55

Good price, personally I think any good grade fully synthetic oil is good enough, I use the GM own brand stuff in mine, 50k on a 100k engine and it's not given any trouble yet, famous last words.

#3 ap0gee1978

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 14:59

To be fair, 25 quid for a sumpful is cheap, even compared to non-conpliant oil. I think it's especially important to use the right oil in the PD engines rather than the CR ones...

#4 mcsweeney

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 17:15

Exactly what is the correct grade / spec of oil?

I have a QG1 96KW AWX engine. The book says VW 506 01 or VW 506 00 - does not apply to unit injection engine.???? I feel like the original document was badly translated from chinese or korean...as clear as mud.

What are they on about??? I dont even know for sure whether I have a PD angine or not. Its nowhere in the book or on any stickers. Most forums say the 130bhp is a PDi engine though marked TDi. How can any sane person tell?

#5 ap0gee1978

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 19:48

You have the PD (unit injection) engine, which needs 506.00 or 507.00 on variable (QG1) servicing, if I remember rightly...

#6 Gizmo68

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 09:53

You have the PD (unit injection) engine, which needs 506.00 or 507.00 on variable (QG1) servicing, if I remember rightly...


You can also use VW506.01 for variable servicing. (providing your car isn't fitted with a DPF - which the 130 PD is not)

#7 mcsweeney

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 10:16

Thanks Guys for that. Currently buying my 2nd right front link in 2 years :confused: and figured I would get some good oil also.

#8 magictongue

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 21:53

i had a similar prob as the spec in my manual had been superceeded, they replied as follows :


Dear Mr Howe



Škoda Superb 1.9 TDi GN03VRZ



In response to our telephone conversation held 5 August 2009, regarding your vehicle.



I can confirm after speaking with our Technical Support Team, that the correct recommended oil specification for your vehicle is VW 507 00 and VW 506 01 for the variable service regime.



I trust this I have answered your enquiry.



If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

#9 Supurbia

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 02:49

Exactly what is the correct grade / spec of oil?

I have a QG1 96KW AWX engine. The book says VW 506 01 or VW 506 00 - does not apply to unit injection engine.???? I feel like the original document was badly translated from chinese or korean...as clear as mud.

What are they on about??? I dont even know for sure whether I have a PD angine or not. Its nowhere in the book or on any stickers. Most forums say the 130bhp is a PDi engine though marked TDi. How can any sane person tell?



It's all horse mate, if you go to a VW dealer they have semi synthetic oil that meets the specs, only difference is that it isn't as long life, imo, anyone running oil longer than 12k is a fool, all this was made up so that fleets would only need one serivce in 3 years, there's no magic ingredient, the figures to look for are the viscosity ones, any oil meeting that grade is good enough VAG invented the 500 spec so you will go to them for oil, sadly the likes of Fuchs jumped on the bandwagon also, as long as you change every 10k Castrol GTX will suffice.

#10 ap0gee1978

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 08:03

Up to you if you follow that advice, but like I said before, with TPS selling the correct oil at a very good price, it's worth it to know your injectors are protected (which is the key thing with the PD engines...)

#11 Supurbia

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 12:09

Up to you if you follow that advice, but like I said before, with TPS selling the correct oil at a very good price, it's worth it to know your injectors are protected (which is the key thing with the PD engines...)



Absolutely, but oil goes on it's viscosity for suitability, VAG has invented it's own spec of oil to confuse ppl into buying their oil only, there's no magic ingredient in 500 spec oils, they are simply good quality oils rebranded.

#12 ap0gee1978

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 13:01

Well, that and shear resistance. A semi-synthetic oil like GTX will degrade faster, especially in the high-shear conditions found in a PD cylinder head. It's right enough that regular oil changes will mitigate this, and while I'd cautiously agree that one fully-synthetic 5W-30 is probably the same as the next, I really don't think GTX is a good idea except in an emergency. But you pays your money...

#13 Gizmo68

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 13:13

It's all horse mate, ........there's no magic ingredient, the figures to look for are the viscosity ones, any oil meeting that grade is good enough VAG invented the 500 spec so you will go to them for oil, sadly the likes of Fuchs jumped on the bandwagon also, as long as you change every 10k Castrol GTX will suffice.


Plus to name but a few others:
Gulf
Mobil
Castrol
Motul

So you want to use your Castrol GTX, you now have a choice or either 10w-40, 15w-40, both which meet VW505.00 (now i can understand the argument that a certain brand of oil that has not been tested for the VW spec might possibly be good enough in a PD) but why run an oil that fails to meet the VW507.00 (which BTW is 5W-30) when Castrol make an oil that does? (Castrol Edge 5W-30)

I could try saving money by running Wanli tyres, i mean they are 2/3rds the price of the Dunlops i have bought, they are the same size, meet the same load and speed ratings so they MUST be as good right? :rolleyes: the differance being with normal use i should get another 20K out of a pair of fronts, you however can't wait to wear your Wanli's out so you can change them ;)

I have no issues with anybody wishing to use non approved parts or oil, i don't think however it's good idea to be recommending others to do it.
The spec's are there for a reason, either take heed of them or take the gamble that your cheaper oil that does not reach the required spec will hopefully be good enough.

#14 Supurbia

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 18:57

Nope, Wanli are sheet full stop, all I'm saying is oil is oil when it comes to it's branded or labelled capability, the 500 spec is a VAG invention, mines run on 5/30 GM fully synthetic for the last 50k and there's not a rattle or missed beat to be found, generally I have it out after 12k sometimes 15k, obviously I wouldn't tell someone to go to Tesco and buy £3.99 oil for the engine, but at the sametime I think it's a con to frighten ppl to use a certain spec, when it's a simple case of White vs Blanc, two words same meaning, I've heard some great ones regarding the PD engine since I've had one, oooh don't use fuel inj cleaners it kills the pump?????? really is that why when someone brings a car in misfiring the first thing a VAG mechhanic will do is to bung a treatrment in the tank, it's all cash generation with VAG I'm afraid, lovely cars, lousy company.

#15 ap0gee1978

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 19:59

So where does the recommendation to use GTX come in, then? :confused:

#16 cheezemonkhai

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 23:14

Vaux, have their own spec, as do ford, BMW, Merc and others.

The PD injectors put a massive point pressure ont he cam and have friction modifiers and other compounds to provide high lubrication and wear resistance in a thin layer.

Don't use it and it won't suddenly die, but you will get faster cam and injector wear.

#17 berr0010

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 18:21

Sorry I am with Superbia on this one. Lets get real BMW GM VW and Merc DO NOT make oil ! FACT. They use manafactors to do this. now imagine how expensive an oil would be if it was made just for one engine type. Well the real important fact with oil is viscosity. If you get a cheap oill or wrong viscosity then I can understand how a PD engine can be damaged. My Dad works on commercial vehicles and cars and do you think they have 18 barrels of oil lying around. If you want to believe all this 505, 506 507 then thats ok. My Superb is out of warrenty and I know that with regular oil changes the car will be fine. Oh I have the blue coolant in my radiator not the pink Well the radiator failed after 40k so the pink cannot be that good. God I am a rebel.

#18 ap0gee1978

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 16:03

It's up to you. You're on blue coolant, so that's a big bottle every two years rather than every five - so that's costing you five or ten quid extra a year over five years doing it that way? And you're saving a tenner an oil change using similar logic, so let's say you're "up" by a tenner a year. Is it really worth it? Presumably you don't bother with fully comp insurance either?

#19 cheezemonkhai

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 16:23

From an oil supplier:

http://pics.tdiclub....50501points.pdf

An interesting thread:

http://forums.tdiclu...ead.php?t=94811

#20 berr0010

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Posted 23 November 2009 - 20:16

But the radiator failed with pink coolant after 3 years so how did that save me money! Of course it could be the rubbish VAG radiator. Every two years gives me peace of mind. Again the oil mentioned in the articles were 0W or 5W of which I use 5W, changed every 10k and not 20K I cannot see how this is going to impact a PD engine just because it does not say 507 on the tin. Viscosity, Viscosity Viscosity. We have had over 500k and 8 different cars with PD engines. Bora, Fabiax 2, Superb, Golf Plus, Octavia, Jetta, and Passat (new shape). Not a single turbo or oil related problem. Hand on heart, honest. Sorry the Passat had a new oil pump on recall. Rubbish 2.0 TDi engine though. ALL were using the GM oil. I am not arguing against anyone using VW authorised oils in there cars, just that there is a bigger commercial picture. Oh I do have comp insurance. (even the remap is added !)

#21 ap0gee1978

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 08:07

But the radiator failed with pink coolant after 3 years so how did that save me money! ... ...Oh I do have comp insurance. (even the remap is added !)


You know for sure that the radiator failed because of the coolant, then, and not a manufacturing defect or an unlucky stone strike? And you feel it's worth paying hundreds of extra pounds a year for the 'peace of mind' of fully comp insurance, but not an extra tenner or so to use the specified oil? :confused: Interestingly as far as the 'VAG conspiracy' goes, I was in TPS yesterday, and noticed that Ford specify the same oil for their PD-engined Galaxies as VAG do for their PD cars. They call the spec something different, but it comes in the same bottle. They're in on it too, presumably? ;)

#22 Gizmo68

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:00

But the radiator failed with pink coolant after 3 years so how did that save me money! Of course it could be the rubbish VAG radiator.


Yes i would put that down to VAG radiators, they do seem to be a week link failing fairly regularly after around 5 years.

#23 Supurbia

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:31

You know for sure that the radiator failed because of the coolant, then, and not a manufacturing defect or an unlucky stone strike? And you feel it's worth paying hundreds of extra pounds a year for the 'peace of mind' of fully comp insurance, but not an extra tenner or so to use the specified oil? :confused: Interestingly as far as the 'VAG conspiracy' goes, I was in TPS yesterday, and noticed that Ford specify the same oil for their PD-engined Galaxies as VAG do for their PD cars. They call the spec something different, but it comes in the same bottle. They're in on it too, presumably? ;)


You just answered your own question there regarding Ford PD oil and VAG PD oil, and it's not a tenner, it's more like £35 more than a suitable non manufacturer branded oil, if there was a magic ingredient both Ford and VAG would spec the same spec on the bottle, as they don't yet both go in the same engine what does that tell you Sherlock?

#24 ap0gee1978

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 12:20

what does that tell you Sherlock?


It tells me that you're so convinced you're correct, you didn't read my post correctly:

They call the spec something different, but it comes in the same bottle.[/B]

Here's the spec sheet, 'Sherlock'

http://www.thetradep... Data Sheet.pdf

Ooh, look! SAE 5W-40; API SL/CF; ACEA A3/B4/C3; VW 502 00 / 505 00 / 505 01, and Ford WSS M2C-917A ;)

Whether it's a tenner or 35 quid, once or twice a year, I can't see how you think it's worth the risk for less than the cost of a packet of fags, a couple of pints, or whatever your poison is each month. Like I mentioned earlier, by that logic you should just insure third-party, as anything else is an unnecessary expense. But I bet you don't...

Edited by ap0gee, 24 November 2009 - 13:39.
Fixed link


#25 cheezemonkhai

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 13:18

You just answered your own question there regarding Ford PD oil and VAG PD oil, and it's not a tenner, it's more like £35 more than a suitable non manufacturer branded oil, if there was a magic ingredient both Ford and VAG would spec the same spec on the bottle, as they don't yet both go in the same engine what does that tell you Sherlock?


How do you work that out then?

Normal 5w-30 or 0w-30 fully synthetic is about £25 to £30 a bottle.
VAG 5w-30 VW507 longlife is about £35 a bottle.

Seems like £5-£10 per bottle to me. (and yes that is 5L vs 5L price from the same motor factors)

Halfords example:

http://www.halfords....tegoryId_165581

That oil is a differing standard to the stuff used in fords own in house engine designs.

#26 Supurbia

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:29

How do you work that out then?

Normal 5w-30 or 0w-30 fully synthetic is about £25 to £30 a bottle.
VAG 5w-30 VW507 longlife is about £35 a bottle.

Seems like £5-£10 per bottle to me. (and yes that is 5L vs 5L price from the same motor factors)

Halfords example:

http://www.halfords....tegoryId_165581

That oil is a differing standard to the stuff used in fords own in house engine designs.


You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres, last quote I had for golden 500 oil was £50 at GSF and that was Fuchs oil, you keep on playing the VAG game, me I don't, cos I know what a sh1thouse firm it is, I used to work for them, and you can keep ringing the VAG bell all you like I use and have used GM oil for 50k on a 100k engine and it's still perfect, delude yourselves all you like, you are playing the game set up by VAG to confuse ppl, I'll comment no more as you all know you are right and I'm wrong, and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.

#27 Supurbia

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 02:51

From an oil supplier:

http://pics.tdiclub....50501points.pdf

An interesting thread:

http://forums.tdiclu...ead.php?t=94811


Not to chastize you Cheeze, it says 0 or 5W as an oil choice, and as for the second link with the tech guff, aren't these the same ppl who have a PC and have to benchmark it every 3 hours just incase they got a millionth of a millisecond more speed because the PC was more idle than the last time they ran their golden FREEWARE benchmark software, I thank you for posting the links, because it doesn't really state only use 500 series oil, it states use 0 or 5W oil, which is what I've been trying to tell ppl all along.

#28 ap0gee1978

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 13:10

You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres...and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.


So you've changed you're oil every 2k to save up the ninety quid over 50000 miles? Seriously, with approved oil (necessary or not) at 25 quid for 5 litres, why bother with anything else - and as I mentioned earlier, Ford require it to be used in their VAG-sourced engines, but not their in-house ones, which I notice you didn't have an answer for?

Like I said earlier, if you were that unconcerned about things, why not save yourself loads more each year by insuring third-party only? In all likelihood, you car won't get nicked or suffer excess-busting damage in the next twelve months after all. Your logic and self-righteousness beggar belief IMO...

#29 Tom_vRS

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 13:34

Manufacturers have specifications for oils for their engines, and its a naive person who doesn't stick to their specification. There are several big oil manufacturers who make oil to all these specifications, so it doesn't force you to buy from VAG et al at all. I genuinely believe its not a money making scam, but correctly specified oils for engine durability.

As said above, the high shear conditions in the PD engine cylinder head are a special case, as is the durability requirements of the oil for variable servicing regimes. My Mazda has an oil that is friendly to its revelutionary nano-technology DPF (which at close to £20 a litre is pricey!). I'm certain that an off the shelf 5W30 won't grind the engine to a halt in my ownership, but why take the risk?

In reality, modern engines should run to 300k+ with ease. Even assuming a lower spec oil increased wear by double, how many people really put 150k+ on an engine in their ownership? Saying I've done even 100k on pikey oil without issues doesn't mean its up to the job.

#30 cheezemonkhai

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 13:39

Not to chastize you Cheeze, it says 0 or 5W as an oil choice, and as for the second link with the tech guff, aren't these the same ppl who have a PC and have to benchmark it every 3 hours just incase they got a millionth of a millisecond more speed because the PC was more idle than the last time they ran their golden FREEWARE benchmark software, I thank you for posting the links, because it doesn't really state only use 500 series oil, it states use 0 or 5W oil, which is what I've been trying to tell ppl all along.


Yes probably correct and I wouldn't waste my time like they are. If they want to do that it's fine. I was just adding a couple of sources of debate where you can get varied views.

The thin oil is indeed critical, and it's likely the other oils come more into play with the longer life servicing, however the testing number is piece of mind.

You lot just keep playing the VAG game, mine runs on VX sourced GM oil at £21 for 5 litres, last quote I had for golden 500 oil was £50 at GSF and that was Fuchs oil, you keep on playing the VAG game, me I don't, cos I know what a sh1thouse firm it is, I used to work for them, and you can keep ringing the VAG bell all you like I use and have used GM oil for 50k on a 100k engine and it's still perfect, delude yourselves all you like, you are playing the game set up by VAG to confuse ppl, I'll comment no more as you all know you are right and I'm wrong, and by the way I enjoyed the ninety quids worth of beer that has and is circulating your engines right now.


You my dear sir, are being ripped off by your GSF branch as I can get 5L of millers long life VW507 for £35 or 4L of mobil 1 ESP for £35 and 4L of castrol VW507 for £32. from another factors and similar pricing from them. If I move away from long life VW approved oil, to fixed interval VW approved oils, then you can take about £10 off each of those prices.

Are you familiar with thin film wear reducing additives? If your GM oil has sufficient then you will be fine, if not you won't over time and you will end up with worn injectors and cam.

I don't say I'm right, you're wrong, I'm saying since we really don't know which oils provide enough protection to the PD cam areas then why take the chance for such a small amount of money every 10k miles (assuming you're not doing variable but fixed)?

Just driving at 70 as opposed to 62mph will cost far more than that in the same 10k miles.

As for the £90 of beer, WTF are you on about, my engine uses 4L of oil, that is £35 (average) and so you've saved £14, which you drank and enjoyed. Even if you apply full variable service and say 3 time that ( as you'd get 2.7 changes in 50k) you're still only drinking £42 of beer.

I'll also enjoy the money I saved by using the specified parts and got back through good will payments for using their servicing. You make your choices, I make mine and it probably all evens out in the end.

I'm really glad for you that you feel you're right and all that, and you're entitled to feel that way. People have differing opinions, but I'm in a position where I'm happy to pay for a bit of piece of mind. Sure it might only be an expensive tracer in the oil to show it's passed 507 testing, but it's worth it should you have engine issues in warranty.


As said above, the high shear conditions in the PD engine cylinder head are a special case, as is the durability requirements of the oil for variable servicing regimes. My Mazda has an oil that is friendly to its revelutionary nano-technology DPF (which at close to £20 a litre is pricey!). I'm certain that an off the shelf 5W30 won't grind the engine to a halt in my ownership, but why take the risk? .


To be fair some off the shelf oils will kill it and others will I'm sure be fine.

For the same reason VW moved to 5w from 0w oils for DPF equipped cars.

From my understanding of it the VW507 oil has to have a low ash content when it burns so that this doesn't block up the DPF. The fact they moved to 5w also means less should burn by getting past the pistons or up through the crankcase etc

Edited by cheezemonkhai, 25 November 2009 - 13:49.