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Octy II VRs (Diesel ) Coolant Loss


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#1 cavdad

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 15:12

Hi everyone,

Have an issue with the Octy loosing a full header tank of coolant approx every 3,000 miles / 4 months.

No other problems, pulls like a train, no clouds of smoke, no issues with oil / gunk etc. Dealer has pressure tested the cooling system (twice), reports back that it's OK & seems unable to offer any further assistance. They did suspect the EGR valve but now they seem pretty sure it's not that.

Anyone on here come across anything similar ??? Car going back to dealer (again) next week.

Any suggestions / advice much appreciated

Thanks

John

PS Drive safely out there :o

#2 skippy41

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 15:34

2 possibles , a small hole in the rad, or a blown head gasket, or even a porous head

#3 prolfe

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 16:39

This I think is a common fault with the A3, something to do with the header tank. Mine looses coolant and I just top it up. I wasn't too bothered by it as it's going back.

#4 peanut18

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 17:42

Could be very serious - it was for me and my wallet. See this post also:

http://briskoda.net/...1

Plenty of tales-of-woe on various VW and Audi forums. It was the main reason I went for a petrol vRS over the diesel.

#5 sh4rpsh00ter

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 20:58

Could be very serious - it was for me and my wallet. See this post also:

http://briskoda.net/...1

Plenty of tales-of-woe on various VW and Audi forums. It was the main reason I went for a petrol vRS over the diesel.


My 1.9 PD Fabia VRS was doing the same it turned out to be a knackered head gasket, all changed under warranty. The only thing that annoyed me was that they didn't replace the cambelt. If i'd of known i'd of paid for a new one to be fitted (piece of mind), as it turns out when i had it replaced at 73k it was still looking brand new!!

#6 dstev2000

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:10

My PD140 did that for ages, new cylinder head cured it. Had any minor starting problems? slight reluctance to start and some coughing and spluttering when it does finally catch are the things to watch out for.

EGR coolers have been known to leak but I am not sure that its a problem on the PD170. Being a slow coolant leak means it could be weeping somewhere hot and evaporating, they can be tricky to narrow down especially if the leak only occurs when the engine is hot, a pressure test will show squat.

What age/mileage is the car?

#7 cavdad

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:33

Its almost 2 & a half years old & @ 21000.

BUT it's been doing it from new i think, 'cos at 4 months old, SWMBO had the coolant light come on as the header tank was almost empty. just put it down to 'one of those things' but getting annoyed now.

Funny thing is, there are NO other symptoms, no oil in water / water in oil, starts at a touch - even after a night @ -8.5C, no smoke / steam, runs nice & smooth (for a PD). Dealer says they'll do another compression test of cooling system, but can't do anything if it comes up OK .................

had a browse on hereand other VAG forums. smart money is on a EGR valve, Porous Cylinder Head, or Head Gasket. Can't see it beeing HG. Dealer says no seeping / weeping / residue around the EGR valve. How would you diagnose a Pourous Head tho'..........

Have pinged an e-mail to SUK so we'll see in due course ..........................

Edited by cavdad, 07 January 2010 - 10:34.


#8 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 14:03

I have a similar problem on my vRS TDI (2yrs 9mnths, 45,000 miles), have the car booked into my dealer for a service a week today and have asked them to check things over.

I'd like to think that a weeping joint that a new jubilee clips will fix is the problem, but will have to see.

#9 dstev2000

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 14:58

Isn't the EGR cooler round the back of the block while the EGR valve is round the front? :S

The only way to properly diagnose the head is to completely remove it and have it pressure tested. the test on the coolant system as a whole doesn't go very high due to various hoses and clips etc but when they test the head on its own they can go to higher pressures. A penetrating dye can also be used to identify hairline cracks in the alloy, pretty much the same thing they do on jet engine and turbine blades.

The coolant pressure should also be monitored when the engine is running to ensure it isn't being over pressurised by leaking combustion gas.

#10 cavdad

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 16:14

Update....... Dealer has pressure tested it again & has found no problems.... seems unable / unwilling to investigate further.

SUK have said taking vehicle to non- skoda franchise will invalidate warranty & i they will not refund the cost of repairs......... hhhmmmmmmmmm

Very disappointed. Not the level of service i had hoped to recieve from a skoda dealer. This disappointment will shortly be expressed in no uncertain terms to the dealer concerned ........ watch this space

bahnstormer vrs, how did you get on with getting your problem fixed ?

#11 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 18:02

bahnstormer vrs, how did you get on with getting your problem fixed ?


I delivered my car to dealer an hour ago; they will be working on it tomorrow and I collect on Saturday. I'll update after that.

#12 cavdad

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:40

Had many calls to / from MD of dealership, who seemed genuinely concerned.

Basically, VAG prevent dealers from actively serearching for fault causes if intial tests reveal nothing; other than having a good 'look see'. They are unable to start stipping things down.

Advice now is to wait for the coolant warning light to come on & drop it in again; presumably this indicates a fault and they can start being more agressive in their fault finding... we'll see.........

Any joy with your Octy, bahnstormer vrs ??

Any Leagal Eagles on here who could comment on ' fitness for purpose' of original purchase

#13 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:26

Got my car back on Saturday with a report of full visual check with no sign of leak and pressure test revealed no loss in pressure; so no remedy required.

Dealer has asked me to keep a careful check, which I will do on a weekly/300 miles basis and keep in touch. I'm slightly miffed though that they left the coolant level on 'min' in the header tank; they could have at least have topped it up to 'max' for me. I will revisit tomorrow and get this done.

#14 milgey

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 19:12

Please forgive my intrusion on the Skoda forum but i have a Seat Altea Freetrack 4 with the 2.0TDi 170 engine and i have exactly the same problem with coolant loss - my local Seat dealer have had the car for full analysis and cannot find the leak. Seat Technical helpdesk have also said this has never been reported, yet the web is full of us VAG drivers with exactly the same fault.

I would like to know if anyone has had the issue and been met with the same response from the stealers and if so how did you persuade them to sort the problem out?

Thank you

#15 vRSLen

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 19:39

Welcome :)

I would get it pressure tested. If that shows nothing
I would suspect a cracked head....

#16 Mute

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 20:39

The coolant has to go somewhere.

The oil level isn't rising (or is it?) so it's not disappearing through the head gasket then down into the sump.
Noone's reporting excessive steam from their exhausts or sweet smelling exhaust fumes so it's not probably going there.
A visual inspection would hopefully show a leaking radiator from the corrosive deposits, but visibility isn't great to the front of the rad so it's still possible.
If combustion gases were over pressurising the coolant system (HG failure) and coolant was escaping via the pressure release cap on the coolant reservoir, then a sniff test (which the dealer will have done as matter of course) would have flagged up hydrocarbons in the coolant, so it's unlikely to be that.
Theres no wet carpet reported in the cabin, or steamed up windows with a greasy film left behind so i doubt heater matrix.
Other than that its likely to be a union / join of some sort which is weeping rather than leaking?

Might be worth having the dealer pour some tracer dye into the coolant tank on next visit then drive it for a week and go back for a visual inspection under UV light.

#17 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 08:09

The coolant has to go somewhere.

Might be worth having the dealer pour some tracer dye into the coolant tank on next visit then drive it for a week and go back for a visual inspection under UV light.


Good suggestion, thanks.

Since my dealer visit a few weeks and 1800 miles ago I have been keeping an eye on mine. I have noticed a degree of steam/vapour from the exhaust on cold mornings that I didn't really think diesels ever did; but then the weather has been particularity cold & damp in recent weeks so this might just be expected.

What is not expected though, is that I have been checking the coolant level frequently and have established that I am loosing/burning coolant at the rate of 'max to min' on the expansion bottle (about 300ml) every 750 miles. My dealer is aware of this. I have the car booked into them in three weeks time for its first MOT and they are then going to have a serious check over this (by which time I will have done another 1,000 miles or so; so will have topped up again and let it drop towards 'min').

In the meantime I will see if I can persuade dealer to get some tracer dye so that I can test this prior to my visit in three weeks time.

PS> I had two coolant leaks on a 1.4mpi Fabia a few years ago; one was the radiator bottle hose not being tight enough and the other was the coolant temperature sensor leaking. Both were fixed quickly and easily. The problems on the PD170 seem to be more difficult to find; hmmm.

#18 sheepmonkey

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 21:42

Update....... Dealer has pressure tested it again & has found no problems.... seems unable / unwilling to investigate further.

SUK have said taking vehicle to non- skoda franchise will invalidate warranty & i they will not refund the cost of repairs......... hhhmmmmmmmmm

Very disappointed. Not the level of service i had hoped to recieve from a skoda dealer. This disappointment will shortly be expressed in no uncertain terms to the dealer concerned ........ watch this space

bahnstormer vrs, how did you get on with getting your problem fixed ?


My 2.0TDI 140 Octavia has the same problem. Also went to the Skoda dealer on 3 occasions where they pressure tested and all fine. Same thing, I complained and got nowhere. Very dissapointed with Skoda. I have since taken to an independant and they have diagnosed a Cracked Head which seems faily common on these engines. Tried contacting Skkoda but nothing. No longer a happy driver.

#19 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 08:58

I spoke with my dealer yesterday about putting some dye in the coolant prior to my visit. They suggested that they didn't have a dye they would use in coolant.

However the Service Manager, in assuring me they would get the problem fixed, did tell me they had had two previously problematic 2.0L TDIs, one had a leaking inlet manifold (has an integrated coolant supply apparently) and the other was EGR valve related.

I therefore have confidence that they will sort the issue for me and I've told them they can keep my car as long as is necessary ('cos I'll have their Yeti courtesy car).

Edited by bahnstormer vrs, 05 March 2010 - 08:58.


#20 redlemon

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 14:40

our 130 TDI passat has just started doing this as well :'(

#21 cavdad

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 19:13

I have spoken at length with the Management at my local Dealer, who were very understanding regarding my frustrations at the lack of progress on resolving the problem

If i understand things correctly, when a vehicle is under SUK warranty, dealers are unable to 'trouble-shoot' niggling, difficult problems without the O.K. from SUK. To get this go-ahead they have to submit evidence of a fault to SUK who then authorise (pay for) the work to be done. So, vehicle has a coolant loss, Dealer pressure tests it, vehicle passes test, Dealers hands tied. (Seems like a policy to manufacture 'Happy Beancounters' rather than 'Happy Drivers')

I am told by SUK that any diagnostic / remedial work by a third party, would invalidate the warranty & SUK would not foot the bill. Fortunately, my Dealer seems to have taken my concerns on board. I have now to wait until the low coolant light comes on & then they will have it in again, hopefully they will be able to get to the bottom of it then.... i'll keep you guys posted.

I should point out that these proceedures apply across the whole VAG group & not just SUK

i'm e-mailing the link to this thread to my Dealership, the owner seem quite customer focused.... may be he has some 'leverage' with SUK as this seems to be an issue with a number of formally 'Happy Drivers'

#22 peanut18

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 08:18

When my dealer couldn't correctly diagnose a worn suspension, bush after two attempts. I then filled in one of the cutomer satisfaction cards that was on the service desk, saying I was a little frustrated and that I wanted it fixed. A few days after posting it SUK and the Service Manager called me. They booked the car in for 3 days to be sure that they could locate the fault and loaned me a brand new Yeti. Fault was fixed and all was good again - even though I told them at the start I suspected a worn bush !!

#23 cavdad

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 18:19

Posted this threads' link to the MD of my local dealership last Friday; spoke to the Service Manager today, car in next week for a few days to get the issue sorted.... watch this space .......

#24 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 17:05

Did my weekly check this morning; coolant level a bit below 'min' and only done 500 miles since last set to 'max'.

Topped up and will now leave until car goes to my dealer a week on Friday; I'll probably have done another 400-500 miles by then.

#25 Pud

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 18:17

The level on my 2.0 TDi is just above minimum when cold and around the max mark when hot, wont filling it to max when cold present a problem when the engine warms up?

#26 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 20:00

The level on my 2.0 TDi is just above minimum when cold and around the max mark when hot, wont filling it to max when cold present a problem when the engine warms up?


Handbook states level should be checked when cold and be between min & max. Yes; the level will rise when hot, but that's what the expansion tank is for; no problem.

For my purposes I have always checked when cold (first thing in the morning) and adjusted level accordingly.

#27 cavdad

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 18:03

Sooooooo......................

Monday am - Car into Dealers

Tuesday am - Phonecall from Dealers - problem has been found; a leak under the Coolant Header Tank, probably a manufacturing defect

Wednesday am - Car back, fixed, washed & SO shiny :D

Thanks Guys (you know who you are !)

Happy driver once again

#28 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 18:09

Sooooooo......................

Monday am - Car into Dealers

Tuesday am - Phonecall from Dealers - problem has been found; a leak under the Coolant Header Tank, probably a manufacturing defect

Wednesday am - Car back, fixed, washed & SO shiny :D

Thanks Guys (you know who you are !)

Happy driver once again


Glad you have got it fixed.

"Coolant Header Tank" - do you mean the Expansion bottle/globe?

D

#29 cavdad

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:26

Yep, that's the one

#30 bahnstormer vrs

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 18:46

Did my weekly check this morning; coolant level a bit below 'min' and only done 500 miles since last set to 'max'. Topped up and will now leave until car goes to my dealer a week on Friday; I'll probably have done another 400-500 miles by then.


Picked my car up on Saturday morning with coolant loss diagnosed as coming from the 'oil cooler'.

I asked for a bit more detail and was shown the parts plan that shows there is a 'ring doughnut' jacket of coolant around the base of the oil filter housing. The required part is on order and I will get it fitted after Easter.




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