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Fabia 1.4 TDI Oil Pump Chain


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Has anyone heard of an oil pump chain breaking?

I have a Fabia 1,4 TDI 55 plate with 66k on the clock. I have been delighted with it and also have another petrol Fabia 1.2 estate.

However, several weeks ago I left for work and the diesel's dashboard oil light came on. I pulled in to check everything after driving 500m to where it was safe to stop. Nothing wrong with oil levels so turned for home and engine sized within a further 100m. Needed a new short block and a second mortgage.

Cannot get Skoda UK to see that this is not what I would expect after 66k miles on a 55 plate car. Despite me having a full service history (admittedly not at the nearest Skoda dealer - 40 miles away...) they said I must have put the wrong oil in (!??!) or done something else and they could not consider any contribution to the repair (the car was a mere 9 months out of warranty). I apparently have not been 'loyal to the Skoda brand' by getting my car serviced at my local garage (where the mechanics are excellent and I trust them completely). Somewhat insutling as I have two Fabias and used to extol their virtues to anyone who was prepared to listen.....

Has anyone else heard of an oil pump chain breaking and if so do you have any idea of the cause? I want to keep my Fabia but want to ensure that this doesn't happen again (cannot afford a third mortgage!) so any advice would be appreciated. Maybe it was just a fualty part and I have been very unlucky.........

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I'm not sure about the chain to be honest but I would keep on at Skoda and see if you can at least get a contribution, I should keep mentioning that you already have two Skodas and are very pleased with the brand but this experience tarnishes your experience. Even if you only get 10% or something if you don't ask you don't get.

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There was a change in the EU law recently relating to car warranties not being dependent upon having the car serviced at a franchised/main dealer. Therefore that argument doesn't wash, as long as the independent was performing the servicing according to the manufacturer's specification then this shouldn't be a problem. I presume then that the 1.4 tdi has a timing chain rather than a belt, much like the 1.2 petrol? These seem to cause just as much hassle as a belt. I almost wonder if a belt is better as these are changed regularly regardless whereas the chain only get changed when it breaks!

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There was a change in the EU law recently relating to car warranties not being dependent upon having the car serviced at a franchised/main dealer. Therefore that argument doesn't wash, as long as the independent was performing the servicing according to the manufacturer's specification then this shouldn't be a problem....

That's all well and good as far as warranties are concerned, but this car is out of warranty and there is no EU legislation forcing manufacturers to make goodwill gestures.

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No need to get shirty, the original poster implied that Skoda were using the "not being serviced at a main dealer" as part of the excuse for not offering a good will gesture.

Not being shirty, just realistic. I had a VW Jetta years ago that sufffered a minor wiring fire where the carb preheater cables had rubbed against something on the engine, shorted out and damaged the wiring loom. The VW dealer wanted £800 to replace the loom :'( I called VW customer services looking for some help because as far as I was concerned it was a poor design that would allow it to happen in the first place but they point blank refused because the last two services weren't done by VW dealers. In the end I took the car to a VW specialist who repaired the loom for a fraction of the cost.

Anyway, back to the OPs problem - if this repair is going to cost a 'second mortgage' maybe it might be worth looking at replacing the entire engine with a secondhand or reconditioned one?

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I presume then that the 1.4 tdi has a timing chain rather than a belt, much like the 1.2 petrol? These seem to cause just as much hassle as a belt. I almost wonder if a belt is better as these are changed regularly regardless whereas the chain only get changed when it breaks!

AFAIK all PD engines have timing belts, the chain the OP is refering to is the oil pump drive chain, the oil pump is mounted below the crankshaft and is driven by the chain running from the crankshaft, this is not visible unless the sump/front cover is removed

to the OP, i think you have been very unlucky to have had the oil pump chain fail/break, the only relevance the dealer can claim for the wrong oil is if the camshaft/followers had failed, thats why the special 5w40 oil has to be used, unless of course the bits from those failing caused an oil pump failure, which broke the chain

i would keep on at the dealer and Skoda, but as its so far out of warranty i don't think you will get much if anything out of them, so start looking for engines in the scrappies

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Best of luck chasing Skoda - it's certainly worth a first class stamp. I've never heard of an oil pump chain breaking. Lots of 1.4 TDIs with big mileages and no problems (mine is 130K) so you seem to be very unlucky.

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Thanks guys for all your posts - it just looks as though I have been unlucky as I have still not found anyone who has heard of an oil pump chain breaking....

I've now had the engine rebuilt with a replacement short block and I haven't got anything useful out of Skoda UK and in return I don't have anything good to say about them - I have felt insulted by some of their insinuations about failure to maintain my car or about 'not supporting the brand'.

Moral to this expensive tale is:

"If the dashboard oil warning light comes on - stop immediately and investigate"

Apparently I might have heard the broken chain rattling when starting up the engine, though somehow I think not....

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I have had exactly the same problem with my TDI. It is an 08 plate with just under 37000 miles and so is still under warranty but as the dealer thinkjs the fault has been caused by "oil starvation" Skoda don't want to pay up. It's my fault for running the car without oil.

The mechanic seems to think the broken chain is due to the oil starvation rather than the other way around. Does anybody know if the oil pump chain would be checked during a routine service?

Currently the car is with the dealer awaiting a new engine. The price? A mere £4500.

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I have had exactly the same problem with my TDI. It is an 08 plate with just under 37000 miles and so is still under warranty but as the dealer thinkjs the fault has been caused by "oil starvation" Skoda don't want to pay up. It's my fault for running the car without oil.

The mechanic seems to think the broken chain is due to the oil starvation rather than the other way around. Does anybody know if the oil pump chain would be checked during a routine service?

Currently the car is with the dealer awaiting a new engine. The price? A mere £4500.

My car certainly was not running without oil until the oil pump chain snapped (like yours I suspect). I agree with you that the oil starvation and the subsequent engine damage came about because of the chain snapping.

Expensive failure (at least yours is still in warranty) - keep going at Skoda because I think there is some sort of a fault with these oil pumps going on out there - tell them that we are both thinking of buying a Toyota as a consequence of their oil pumps - Toyotas may have more recalls and more hassle but may be cheaper than what we have.... LOL

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  • 7 months later...

Has anyone heard of an oil pump chain breaking?

I have a Fabia 1,4 TDI 55 plate with 66k on the clock. I have been delighted with it and also have another petrol Fabia 1.2 estate.

However, several weeks ago I left for work and the diesel's dashboard oil light came on. I pulled in to check everything after driving 500m to where it was safe to stop. Nothing wrong with oil levels so turned for home and engine sized within a further 100m. Needed a new short block and a second mortgage.

Cannot get Skoda UK to see that this is not what I would expect after 66k miles on a 55 plate car. Despite me having a full service history (admittedly not at the nearest Skoda dealer - 40 miles away...) they said I must have put the wrong oil in (!??!) or done something else and they could not consider any contribution to the repair (the car was a mere 9 months out of warranty). I apparently have not been 'loyal to the Skoda brand' by getting my car serviced at my local garage (where the mechanics are excellent and I trust them completely). Somewhat insutling as I have two Fabias and used to extol their virtues to anyone who was prepared to listen.....

Has anyone else heard of an oil pump chain breaking and if so do you have any idea of the cause? I want to keep my Fabia but want to ensure that this doesn't happen again (cannot afford a third mortgage!) so any advice would be appreciated. Maybe it was just a fualty part and I have been very unlucky.........

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Has anyone heard of an oil pump chain breaking?

I have a Fabia 1,4 TDI 55 plate with 66k on the clock. I have been delighted with it and also have another petrol Fabia 1.2 estate.

However, several weeks ago I left for work and the diesel's dashboard oil light came on. I pulled in to check everything after driving 500m to where it was safe to stop. Nothing wrong with oil levels so turned for home and engine sized within a further 100m. Needed a new short block and a second mortgage.

Cannot get Skoda UK to see that this is not what I would expect after 66k miles on a 55 plate car. Despite me having a full service history (admittedly not at the nearest Skoda dealer - 40 miles away...) they said I must have put the wrong oil in (!??!) or done something else and they could not consider any contribution to the repair (the car was a mere 9 months out of warranty). I apparently have not been 'loyal to the Skoda brand' by getting my car serviced at my local garage (where the mechanics are excellent and I trust them completely). Somewhat insutling as I have two Fabias and used to extol their virtues to anyone who was prepared to listen.....

Has anyone else heard of an oil pump chain breaking and if so do you have any idea of the cause? I want to keep my Fabia but want to ensure that this doesn't happen again (cannot afford a third mortgage!) so any advice would be appreciated. Maybe it was just a fualty part and I have been very unlucky.........

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i had a balancer shaft sieze up at about 12k on my 6n2 polo (same 1.4tdi engine) which i owed from new, vw replaced the engine FOC which i then drove over 175k without any further problems

Edited by TeflonTom
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I've just had the same problem on my VW Polo which is fitted with the same 3 cylinder 80ps TDI engine, (prefixed BNV) as some Fabias and Roomsters.

I've had the car from new and it has been properly serviced (although not by a main dealer) using VWs very expensive long life oil, as the car is set up for the long service interval. The car is 4 years old and has covered 50,000 miles.

The problem became apparent when the oil light illuminated immediately after the car had missed a beat at about 30mph. I stopped straight away and checked the oil level which was fine. I then had the car recovered to my local garage.

They stripped it down and diagnosed a broken oil pump chain and drive sprocket and subsequent damage to the associated tensioning gear. Their initial quote was for approx £500 depending on the exact cost of spares. Obviously I wasn't too pleased given the age and mileage of the car, but put it down to bad luck and decided to take it on the chin.

The garage called back after a couple of days to say that they had now got all the parts, with the exception of the crankshaft drive sprocket which VW no longer supplied (discontinued 2007).

This would now necessitate a new crankshaft requiring engine removal to fit (new quote £1,800).

I called VWs customer service to enquire why they were unable to supply an essential wear part for a four year old car. They could not give a reason for it's discontinuation but confirmed it was no longer available and a new crankshaft would be required. I asked for a contribution towards the work as this was a totally unsatisfactory situation.

Initially they implied that no contribution could be made as the car had not been main dealer serviced. (Contrary to European legislation I believe). They later realised this mistake and said that they would possibly consider a contribution if I took the car away from the original garage (at the time stripped down on the ramp), delivered it to a main dealer, paid an inspection fee and provided reciepts to prove that original VW parts had been used during all previous servicing. I said obviously I wouldn't have the parts reciepts, as the car had been serviced at a garage, but they said that was the requirement.

It appears that the original fault occured due to the sprocket which drives the oil pump chain, failing and rotating on the crankshaft, subsequently shearing gear teeth and breaking the chain.

This sprocket is fitted over the end of the crank and has 3 flats machined into its bore which mate up to 3 flats machined onto the crankshaft itself. The purpose of these flats is to align the crankshaft to a balancing shaft which is also driven via the oil pump chain. This balancing shaft needs to turn in time with the rest of the engine and as such it is vital that the shaft is correctly timed to the engine via the sprocket location on the crank.

I is my belief that this is possibly a design fault, and that is why the part is no longer available. (VW part No 045 105 209) 045105209

Skoda told me that they also no longer supply this part , although I think theirs had a different part number.

I wonder if your car did actually require a new short engine, or just a new sproket/ chain.

I can honestly say that up until this point the Polo is probably the best car I have ever had, but after VWs terrible service, I shall never buy another car from the VW group.

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A 3 cylinder engine requires a balance shaft rotating at crank speed in order to provide primary balance for the crankshaft.

Using a chain to drive a balance shaft is madness - the torsional oscillations will kill the chain and its tensioner. VAG have had a great deal of trouble with the 2.0 4 cyl PD engine which has twin Lanchester shafts. The engine is almost always wrecked when the chain fails as the drive to the oil pump is also lost. A gear drive retrofit kit was made available - at vast cost - for this engine. The later engines still failed because they messed up the design of the oil pump coupling.

The 3 cyl PD must be dead in the water now, but I wonder if they ever did a retro gear drive conversion for it - which would explain the non availability of the crank sprocket. A trawl through EKTA should reveal all. When I asked Skoda UK how the balance shaft was driven on the 3 cyl PD, they wouldn't tell me - speaks volumes.

Bad design.

rotodiesel.

Edited by rotodiesel
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It is considering they designed the 120degree crank which in theory should balance fine.

yes i could never get my head around the need for a balancer shaft, iirc there is also a cast iron weight that goes on the end too.. madness it seems as there is also a harnonic balancer fitted to this engine. i presume the only did this to make the thing run more smoothly

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The 3 cylinder crankshaft may be balanced but the reciprocating masses of the pistons and conrods of a 3 cyl. engine cannot be balanced. This is the reason for the balancer shaft. Even a 4cylinder engine is not perfectly balanced although it's a lot better than the 3cyl . That's why a straight in-line 6 cylinder engine which can be perfectly balanced is always a lot smoother . Same goes for a V8 , flat 6 cylinder boxer or V12. It's very difficult to balance reciprocating masses with centifrugal balancing masses even if the centrifugal mass is on a different shaft.

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A 3 throw crank spaced 120 degrees between throws is in perfect static balance but is not dynamically balanced - hence the need for a balancing shaft.

Consider the following:

Take a solid cylinder with an axle running through the centre - like a baked bean can. It's perfectly balanced, statically and dynamically.

Now add two equal masses at one end of the cylinder, across a diameter. It's still perfectly balanced, statically and dynamically.

Now move one mass to the other end of the cylinder but at the same point on the periphery. The cylinder is still in perfect static balance - it won't turn on its axle when positioned horizontally on frictionless bearings. It's completely out of dynamic balance though, because a rocking couple is set up by the masses about the centre of the cylinder.

It's because of the need to achieve dynamic balance that tyres have weights on both the inner and outer rims.

The 3 cylinder engine is a c o c k up because of the need for a balance shaft to overcome an inherent dynamic balance problem and VAG's method of employing a chain driven shaft is a disaster waiting to happen.

As usual, they will never own up to it - just another big bill for the suckers.

rotodiesel.

Edited by rotodiesel
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That's the idea of a 120 degree crankshaft. 360 divided by three, it should in theory balance as you don't have two going down and one up etc. It should balance better than a four, in theory.

Agreed that the crankshaft on its own can be balanced but the reciprocating masses of the engine also need to be balanced.

Pistons can only go up or down . With 3 cylinder in-line engines, 2 pistons will be going up whilst the other is going down . Thus the reciprocating masses of the pistons (& conrods) are not balanced.

Even a 4 cylinder with 2 pistons going up & 2 pistons coming down is not perfectly balanced due to the firing order of each cylinder. This causes an out of balance couple on the crankshaft. This out of balance force is much smaller than the primary balance forces.This is why all 4 cylinder in-line engines vibrate to some degree even on the very best engines. 6 cylinder in-line engines don't have this problem.

Why do you think that VW fit a balancer shaft if as you say everything is perfectly balanced ? It's certainly not a cheap addition to the engine. Even Porche fitted a balancer shaft on their large 4 cylinder 944 car in-line engines because of the significant vibration due to the large piston/conrod combination (3 litre 4 cylinder engine !) . A study of engine balancing will reveal that any 3 cylinder in-line engine is inherently out of balance but the out of balance forces can be reduced to an acceptable level with a balancer shaft. The main bearings in the engine still experience the out of balance loading but the overall engine mass vibration is much reduced with the balancer shaft.

VW have done an excellent job in achieving the best possible overall engine balance with the 3 cylinder engine but could not have done it without the balancer shaft.

Edited by vwcabriolet1971
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I don't fully understand your post.

We are agreed that a 3 throw crank is not balanced and needs a balancer shaft. Second and higher order forces and couples are a separate issue.

To place the crank in primary balance, a shaft is needed carrying 2 weights running at crank speed. It could be chain, belt or gear driven.

Discounting a belt drive (although it has been done) a chain and its tensioner are, in this application subject to torsional oscillations from the balance/crank assembly. Witness what happens when your unbalanced washing machine goes through a resonance.

VAG have made a major design error on this and some other engines in choosing a chain drive. If you must use a shaft to balance primary forces (not a good idea in view of their magnitude) a gear drive is the only practicable lasting solution - with a damping member such as a properly coupled oil pump on the non-driven end of the balance shaft to minimise gear rattle.

The 3 cyl PD is not well engineered and the chickens are coming home to roost.

rotodiesel.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 7 months later...

As a 1.4 tdi owner who hasn't experienced a chain problem (touch wood), is there any sense in changing the chain before it breaks? If done with a cambelt change, there doesn't appear to be a lot more work to me.

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