Octavia 1.9tdi starting problems

[JohnKH]

Well...

 

This now has me, not only beaten into submission, but I'm just about done with thrashing around begging for mercy, I'm spent and in my death throes - a bit like my Octavia itself.

 

Spent the afternoon stripping out the new battery, the battery tray and disconnecting and cleaning all the wiring connections. I was positive that this would be the answer I was looking for.

 

I get everything back together; I eagerly take the key in my had - I give her a kiss for good luck - but I guess it was the kiss of death. Nothing had changed.

 

Well, I guess it might have - I haven't been able to get her to fire AT ALL since putting it back together.

 

I am getting 14v from that spanking new battery.

 

When I first turn in the ignition, the lights on the dash etc see her drop to about 13.4, then as the lights go out, it goes back to 14s... I turn the key to start position - there is the click - and the voltage drops to 13.6, but nothing. Stays at 13.6 while the key is turned to start position, release it, back to 14s.

 

I am now well and truly defeated. It has been one of my most traumatic weeks and I had hoped that I might have a little victory today - alas not.

 

I now have to decide what to do about her... I certainly can't afford to have her towed in and sorted out - I think we are going to have to part company and my future is on two wheels and pedal power.

 

:(

[BrownBarge]

That audible click you hear might be the starter motor soloniod trying to engage. Id be tempted to try and source a cheap 2nd hand starter motor and fit that tbh

[trundlenut]

Have you tried giving the starter a tap with a suitable hammer whilst an assistant tries to start it?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[JohnKH]

Have you tried giving the starter a tap with a suitable hammer whilst an assistant tries to start it?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

I've tried giving it a tap and then going to start it myself - but nobody on hand to give me a hand... My first ever car, an old '77 Ford Capri used to need a belt with the stilson every now and again... not much room in the Octavia bay to give the starter a thump - but it has had a few - and no difference.

 

I'm am going to take some persuading that it is the starter - for the simple reason that there has never been a problem with starting until the last couple of weeks - and it was total failure. It was never struggling, it always fired up first time, every time - no sluggishness - nothing. And even when it DOES start - even when it does fire - that one in a million times now (I hope) - it is instant engagement.

 

Do starters go 'all of a sudden' and do they exhibit total failure at the same time as faultless starting? Because that is what I have here... it does strike me as something electrical - I keep thinking - try Relay 109, but then I've been advised that the car would crank and crank and crank if it was 109 - and I wouldnt get the glow plug light.... I get the glowpplug light (before it goes out - as per usual).

 

Really am frustrated by this.

Edited 2 February, 2014 by JohnKH

[eggessford]

So you have new battery, Correct voltage, a 'click' (clearly the starter motor solenoid) and either no cranking or perfect cranking, with no clear pattern.

This could not be more obvious U NEED A NEW STARTER MOTOR!!!

Get one off eBay for around 25 quid used. Do not buy a 'cheap' new one it will break

[eggessford]

To add, yes starter motors fail suddenly.

Disconnect the ignition wire from the starter and check voltage there if you haven't already, this will confirm starter motor failure

[chrisw4266]

Starter defo bud it will be a poor connection inside.

Test it by putting the volt meter on the ignition feed to the starter and crank it if you get 12v that's ignition and relay ok.

Move your volt meter to the battery feed at the starter and crank if there's 12v then that lead is ok.

Last connect the volt meter to battery earth terminal and any where metal on the engine or gear box and crank there should be 0v anything above that and you've got an engine earth fault.

If all the above check out ok replace the starter.

[JohnKH]

So you have new battery, Correct voltage, a 'click' (clearly the starter motor solenoid) and either no cranking or perfect cranking, with no clear pattern.

This could not be more obvious U NEED A NEW STARTER MOTOR!!!

Get one off eBay for around 25 quid used. Do not buy a 'cheap' new one it will break

 

Apologies... I'm not an expert - but I just found it difficult to understand - or find it difficult to understand - how a mechanical item like a starter can be perfect or completely defective. My experience of mechanical things is either working or not working - not where it will work occasionally, and usually where it is mechanical - there are warning signs before failure.

 

But if you say that it is the starter

[JohnKH]

Starter defo bud it will be a poor connection inside.

Test it by putting the volt meter on the ignition feed to the starter and crank it if you get 12v that's ignition and relay ok.

Move your volt meter to the battery feed at the starter and crank if there's 12v then that lead is ok.

Last connect the volt meter to battery earth terminal and any where metal on the engine or gear box and crank there should be 0v anything above that and you've got an engine earth fault.

If all the above check out ok replace the starter.

 

 

Thank you - I'll go through this and if the results are as expected - I'll get the starter - is it an easy job to replace, do you know? It didn't look like it could be done from above. Presumably it is swap out from below?

[chrisw4266]

Thank you - I'll go through this and if the results are as expected - I'll get the starter - is it an easy job to replace, do you know? It didn't look like it could be done from above. Presumably it is swap out from below?

Not sure on a diesel bud mines a petrol.

[trundlenut]

Apologies... I'm not an expert - but I just found it difficult to understand - or find it difficult to understand - how a mechanical item like a starter can be perfect or completely defective. My experience of mechanical things is either working or not working - not where it will work occasionally, and usually where it is mechanical - there are warning signs before failure.

But if you say that it is the starter

I had problems with the starter on an old car, about 1 out 4 times it wouldn't engage and just whirred.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[eggessford]

Starter is easy to replace. Do it from underneath, couple of pipes need moving but it's very straightforward and once your looking at it you will see what needs to be done.

[eggessford]

Starter is easy to replace. Do it from underneath, couple of pipes need moving but it's very straightforward and once your looking at it you will see what needs to be done. 

Edited 2 February, 2014 by eggessford

[JohnKH]

Starter is easy to replace. Do it from underneath, couple of pipes need moving but it's very straightforward and once your looking at it you will see what needs to be done. 

 

Thank you, very grateful for the advice.

[rwbaldwin]

Check that the main positive cable isn't loose (you would still get the click) before you order a new starter.

If you need to replace the starter be very careful when disconnecting the connector that slides into a plastic bracket above the starter. The wires can become brittle and will affect the alternator or a/c if broken. The other thing is to be careful with the PAS pipes - you may need to remove the clips so the pipe is not in your way.

Good Luck

[gadgetmonkeyvrs]

Did anybody get to the bottom of this, because I am having the SAME problems!

 

1. It is gradually getting worse.

2. Initially it would fail to fire up now and again. Put the key in, turn it - all dash lights come on, radio, blower etc. The glow-plug light goes out, I turn the key - and nothing. There is a 'click' - but nothing.

3. I tested the battery - 12.46v.

4. I have charged the battery - even though it was fine 'just in case'.

5. All terminal connections look fine. Cleaned them, greased, them - just in case.

6. I've sprayed WD40 in the ignition key switch - I thought it made a difference - but even that is hit and miss.

7. Initially - it would do it perhaps twice a week. Now (about 3 weeks later) it is every time I try the key - nothing - take it out... put it in - turn it part way - leave it 20 seconds - turn it - nothing; after about 10 or 15 attempts, it will fire and fire instantly.

8. I've tried the spare key - no difference.

 

Driving me mad!

 

Is it Relay 109?

 

I have taken the relay out - its a grey 4-pin, which I am presuming (2003) it is an 'updated' one - i.e. because it is grey... So I'm thinking that this isn't the Relay.

Hi Mate ive had a simular fault with my misses vw t5 1.9tdi i removed the starter motor and stripped in down . found that the brushes inside had worn away and all the carbon deposits were shorting the com out inside. All stripped cleaned and back together now been working sweet for another 12months.

 

The symptoms were occasionaly the van would not start just click when key turned.. thought batt was faulty but all other things worked ok.

 noticed that battery cable to starter motor was getting hot.  leave for a few mins  all would be ok.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[JohnKH]

Starter defo bud it will be a poor connection inside.

Test it by putting the volt meter on the ignition feed to the starter and crank it if you get 12v that's ignition and relay ok.

Move your volt meter to the battery feed at the starter and crank if there's 12v then that lead is ok.

Last connect the volt meter to battery earth terminal and any where metal on the engine or gear box and crank there should be 0v anything above that and you've got an engine earth fault.

If all the above check out ok replace the starter.

Ignition feed: I get 13.6v - so I have power from the switch - it's not the ignition switch at fault.

Feed at the starter: starts at 14v, drops to 9v on key turn. I'm not sure whether I should be getting power to it before I turn the key and that seems a bit odd to me. Moreover, it certainly seems to be a bit of an excessive drop to me..

Earth to engine block: 0v before and after key turn.

What is rather troubling, and what I am getting now that I didn't have before is the ABS light coming on when I turn to start position.

Edited 3 February, 2014 by JohnKH

[chrisw4266]

The drop is the starter solenoid pulling the power

Good results for the other tests sounds like a starter motor needed. The abs light is coming on as the battery voltage is dropping to low to power that ecu.

[JohnKH]

The drop is the starter solenoid pulling the power

Good results for the other tests sounds like a starter motor needed. The abs light is coming on as the battery voltage is dropping to low to power that ecu.

Thanks for your assistance. I've sent a request out through a certain website (not sure if I can name it) which feeds your details to a number of scrap yards - 2 offers so far - cheapest being £36 delivered with a 3 month warranty.

[chrisw4266]

If your hand with the spanners might be worth stripping the old one down see if it's worth repairing. Starters are very simple components.

[JohnKH]

Well... Got a starter... Tested it - jumped the positive to the S post: shoots out and spins... Great.

Spend the afternoon battling through the awful weather, and at least an hour into the darkness... A relatively simple job with a lot of awkwardness thrown in - but - I get it fitted.

Desperate to give it a try - before refitting all the trim (and by that, I also mean before even refitting the battery plate and the battery) I decide to run jump leads between the battery and the car' battery cables.

So I place the key in the ignition, turn her partway - the dash comes to life... Turn her ALL the way: click, click, click... A very strong, very loud click, click, click - but click, click, click nonetheless.

To say that I am a tad deflated is an understatement. It is an improvement on what I had - but it isn't what I had hoped for.

I'm kind of hoping that it was a poor connection between cables and jump leads - made all the worse by everything being sodden and absolutely wet through.

BUT... Tomorrow is another day: we try again! This time after giving that starter a hefty belt with the thick end of a big spanner to make sure it is bedded in.

Sigh...

[eggessford]

Hopefully it will be fine when all back together with a freshly charged battery

[JohnKH]

If 'deflated' was the description of yesterday's mood, I'm not sure what the word is for today... 'devastated', perhaps!?

 

I put everything back together - turn the key - and INSTANT JOY!

 

The problem, however, is that it sounds like 'a bag of marbles' - it is definitely coming from the starter and I can only assume that it is failing to disengage.

 

So after all this - it looks like i have fitted a dud.

[JohnKH]

Further update: did some googling and there was a suggestion that loosening off the bolts and starting it a couple of times helped the starter 'find its natural place'. So, stripped her down again, loosened the retaining bolts off a few turns and started it... Surprisingly, it didn't sound too bad. Did it a couple more times, tightened them back up... Like a bag of manky spanners still.

Deflated, dejected and well and truly beaten. Plenty of blood, sweat and tears - and £100 down - and still not driveable... And I've spotted a leaking brake drum... And the car slipped off the jack and stoved in the sill.

Time to part company with this vehicle I think.

[eggessford]

Bad day then. Can't you just send the starter back? Sounds like you bought a dud