Fuel filter change - wont start!

[jimbof]

Great thread, this is my next job.

Got a Hengst filter, came with two lots of 2 black o-rings (I guess they were feeling generous...). So looks like I'll be ordering the correct o-rings from VW before fitting.

Out of interest rotodiesel - do you tend to go for all original parts from VW on your car? I've gone to ECP for the parts for my service and bought the "best" they had - Bosch oil / air, Hengst pollen / fuel, and beginning to wonder if this was a mistake.

[rotodiesel]

I buy as little as possible from VAG on principle, as their trading practices don't match my principles. VAG don't make filters anyway.

Having been in the business of testing filters, the only ones I would fit to this car are Mann & Hummel or Bosch (many "Bosch" filters are made by Mann). There's a lot of absolute rubbish out there - including spin-on filters in which the element rattles inside the can when you shake it. (High street retailers' own brands are amongst the worst for this). Chinese filters I have found to be completely unsatisfactory.

A diesel fuel filter is an absolutely crucial component for a long and trouble-free fuel system life.

The thermostatic "T" on the VAG engines should have 2 rings of differing hardness - hence black and blue. Bosch or Mann will supply the correct rings. The 2 black rings supplied by Hengst are too hard for the job and risk damaging the "T" when it gets old and brittle. If you really must use the black rings, oil them well with engine oil, make sure they are not twisted and fit the "T" extremely carefully. Never use silicone grease on a diesel fuel system as it is insoluble in fuel and will block the injector fill ports.

Make sure you have a triple square driver to loosen the filter clamp bolt on the later PD engines (lunatic design). Earlier engines have a vertical filter retaining bolt and a clamp which jams solid...

rotodiesel.

[jimbof]

thanks for the tips, will get the triple square drive set ordered (thanks VAG - because torx or a normal bolt would have been too logical?!)

I'm tempted to get a different fuel filter now, will have a look. I thought the Hengst stuff would be pretty good.

Out of interest, have you used a Bosch air filter before? I ask because as mentioned on the other thread on here the Bosch air filter I've bought is much floppier than the Audi OE one it replaces - which has glued strips across both sides to keep it rigid. I wonder if this would be detrimental.

[rotodiesel]

You can always wind out the filter clamp bolt with a hex key and fit an ordinary M6 hex bolt if you don't have a triple square bit. I use a long triple square bit with a 10AF ratchet ring spanner threaded onto the shank.

I've only ever used Mann & Hummel air filter elements (which have the glue strips) so I can't comment on the Bosch element. Take the air cleaner box right out of the car (1 M6 bolt and 2 rubber pegs) so you can clean the rubbish out of the box. The VAG genius design department also make it almost certain that you will lose one of the air box securing clips if you attempt to change the element in situ. They're not captive....

Have their designers ever actually worked on cars?

rotodiesel.

Edited 6 June, 2013 by rotodiesel

[jimbof]

You can always wind out the filter clamp bolt with a hex key and fit an ordinary M6 hex bolt if you don't have a triple square bit. I use a long triple square bit with a 10AF ratchet ring spanner threaded onto the shank.

I've only ever used Mann & Hummel air filter elements (which have the glue strips) so I can't comment on the Bosch element. Take the air cleaner box right out of the car (1 M6 bolt and 2 rubber pegs) so you can clean the rubbish out of the box. The VAG genius design department also make it almost certain that you will lose one of the air box securing clips if you attempt to change the element in situ. They're not captive....

Have their designers ever actually worked on cars?

rotodiesel.

Thanks. I did hoover the box out in-situ to clean it - hadn't realised it came out without disassembling the whole front! That would make fitting the element much easier. Re: the clips - I guess that is what has happened on mine as when I came to do the filter one of the clips had gone already :(

[jimbof]

Just got the complete set of MANN filters from Mister Auto for the grand total of £32.62 delivered, and that was with the activated charcoal pollen filter instead of the plain one - the normal one is £4 cheaper. For anyone interested, here are the part numbers for my 1.9 PD:

Air Filter MANN-FILTER (Réf : C 26 168) £4.91 GBP

Oil Filter MANN-FILTER (Réf : HU 726/2 x) £2.90 GBP

Fuel filter MANN-FILTER (Réf : WK 853/3 x) £10.46 GBP

Cabin air filter MANN-FILTER (Réf : CUK 2882) £8.40 GBP

Edited 10 June, 2013 by jimbof

[jimbof]

Having got these home and put them side by side with the Hengst / Bosch parts is have here, I can say that:

Mann fuel filter vs Hengst

Mann filter seems a lot superior. Better made, has correct blue / black seals, has a dust cover fitted over the outlet to keep it clean, and it doesn't look like all it has inside is a roll of corrugated paper. I'm not going to bother with the hengst - if anyone wants it they can have it for the cost of postage...!

Mann air filter vs Bosch vs OEM

Mann air filter is rigid with same glued pattern as OEM. Bosch is floppy as no glue but seems OK once in the housing straight. Having no glue might lead to improved airflow I guess, but I wonder if this filter supplied by ECP is actually not a true replacement for the Superb / Passat filter and there isn't a better version out there by Bosch? As I've fitted the Bosch now I think I'll leave it.

Mann oil filter vs Bosch

Can't see any notable difference, so looks like I've got a spare now.

Mann carbon cabin filter vs Hengst vs OEM

Mann filter seems better built than either the OEM or the Hengst, and I like the idea of the activated carbon filtering which neither the OEM nor Hengst have. So I've junked the Hengst.

[rotodiesel]

It looks as though much of the evaluation work I did on filters all those years ago still applies.

In general, High street own brands are bad, American car makers' parts brands are bad and Japanese filters (which don't usually fit German vehicles) are very good. The biggest variations are found in spin-on oil filters which need element sealing integrity, anti-drain valves which do just that and blowoff valves which work reliably at the correct pressure. There's some real junk out there.

When I tested these, the Chinese were still making paper lamp shades but their products I have seen don't remotely meet my standards. Maybe they just changed the lampshade factory into an oil filter factory...

VAG sell some OE filters which are Chinese - not to me though.

rotodiesel.

[steve_J_55]

did a fuel filter change on my octy 1.9 last weekend , used a non OEM , started engine up , diesel pouring out of the bottom , were the drain valve is . Took it out and had to put the original back in ,which fortunatly i had not thrown on the floor , Now refitted with an original part , and alls fine . Moral save time not money go OEM always thats what i learnt .

did mine a couple of months ago don't even know the make of the filter no problems at all, can help if you do the job correctly

[jimbof]

Finally got around to changing the fuel filter by myself today - I chickened out last time and had it done by the garage when they were MOT'ing the car.  First time I'd done anything involving going near hoses etc - was all very uneventful.  The Mann filter went in really easily, replacing a Mann filter I'd had put on 30,000 miles ago.  I put down a big rag around all the engine stuff to protect from any drips of diesel - I was surprised by how little fuel comes out of the hoses.  

 

Annoyingly I bought my (all Mann) filters from Carparts4less this time (was a little cheaper) - and air filter didn't have the little reinforcing strips on it either.  So it looks like Eurocarparts / carparts4less use the stripless versions of the filter regardless of brand (the Bosch one they sell also didn't have them).  

 

Didn't have anything to couple the Pela onto the filter with, so I primed by pouring clean diesel into the tee hole.  Started on the button and ran absolutely fine.  Winner

[jimbof]

I should add - there was no plastic ring around the filter removed - does anyone have a photo of what this looks like, or a part number?  I can't see it in either the factory manual or online part catalog.

 

I obviously haven't had one for at least the last 30K miles, and with no ill effect observed, but I guess the result of the filter being at the wrong height would be wear on the hoses / tee /etc?  I'd like to replace it if it is missing.

 

Equally, I note that the filter setup changed from certain chassis numbers - is the ring only related to the old chassis?

 

Gahhh... and one last question - it looks like whoever changed it last time had the black and blue ring order reversed compared to the photos I've just found when looking for this collar.  I've copied what was done, and so have the black one closest to the hoses, and the blue one at the open end of the tee piece.  I guess this is bad?

[0wl]

Annoyingly I bought my (all Mann) filters from Carparts4less this time (was a little cheaper) - and air filter didn't have the little reinforcing strips on it either.  So it looks like Eurocarparts / carparts4less use the stripless versions of the filter regardless of brand (the Bosch one they sell also didn't have them).  

 

 

I gave up trying to get the correct air filter and cabin filter for my Superb from ECP / Carparts4less as the parts their websites suggest are for a BMW and an Octavia respectively - I only noticed this when I came to fit them. In the end I got the correct parts from GSF as even when showing the guys in the ECP branch the issue (who to be fair were trying to be helpful) I still got told the computer says those are the correct parts - it felt like I was in a Little Britain sketch.  It's disappointing that despite the error being pointed out to ECP they still haven't updated their parts database.

 

The correct Mann part numbers for an AWX engined Superb are:

 

Air Filter - C26 168

Oil Filter - HU 726/2 x

Fuel Filter - WK 842/11 (to chassis no. 3U_3_018401) or WK 853/3 x (from chassis no. 3U_3_018402)

Pollen Filter - CU 2882 or CUK 2882 (CUK is activated carbon)

 

If you get a Mann air filter suffixed with a /1 or /2 (i.e. C26 168/1 or C26 168/2) it is for a Vauxhall or BMW not a Superb (look at the application list on the side of the box).  Neither the BMW nor the Vauxhall filters have any reinforcing strips and are slightly different sizes.

 

This lookup tool on the Mann website is useful:

 

http://catalog.mann-filter.com/EU/eng/vehicle

[rotodiesel]

The Mann & Hummel numbers given above agree with the list I have for my Superb. All of the filters have been changed several times and the numbers are correct.

 

The blue "O" ring on the thermostatic tee is fitted nearer the hoses.

 

rotodiesel.

Edited 12 October, 2014 by rotodiesel

[jimbof]

Thanks guys.  Gahhh.... another reason to do it yourself eh!  Annoyed that the manual doesn't even specify which way round they go.  I'll buy a couple of new o-rings from TPS and re-fit.

 

I had a look again at my filter bracket - it has a couple of 10mm tall or so "arms" protruding which look like they are designed to rest on the pressed feature of the filter housing, and set the height (at least that is what I imagine they are for, can't see anyone wasting the money on tooling something like that otherwise).  Like this one:

[rotodiesel]

You need the plastic spacer ring to accurately set the height of the can relative to the clip - or else position it by measurement. I suspect this masterpiece of design arises from the fact that the original PD engines had a different filter - from memory, I think there was a step in the can to define its position.

 

The whole thing is a half-baked design which does not even allow simple access to the water drain tap on the bottom. The triple-square clamp bolt was a step too far - I junked mine and made a wing bolt, so I can easily drain the filter in an emergency without any tools. Any decent design of diesel fuel system will allow for this, as you never know when you may pick up a consignment of contaminated fuel.

 

rotodiesel.

[jimbof]

Curiouser and curiouser... There is a step in the can of the Mann fuel filter fitted (and removed).

Just took this piccy of mine in situ...

[jimbof]

Does anyone have a photo of or part number for the fuel filter collar?  I can't find any photos of a car with my engine and filter with it fitted. :(

I can see now on one of the many pages in the online catalog a part referred to as "boot" - "3B0 201 148".  As there are several different brackets and filters - how to best find out if this car should have this boot fitted?

http://www.auto-parts.spb.ru/cat/au/au.mycat?SelPg&t=YTrNIqA6zSLrOs0iI2ClG1B7lAQyY1caRqfNIlFlTRJhOs9dgR7F6GEoxXhhGs1Ie51eby4zzSEgnISKsJodFmsfm0trLkiH9oZWH4KaH8QbgViP8l1HQJQ5zcJR__3AcZpcZBQ7SHuEInDzYfupKFIWjJzRstSHcZpMsPj_Z0_mBjniMusl2IPbmVxP3kdSwBv5Ui4A

[rotodiesel]

According to EKTA, I have:

 

3B0 201 148 Boot.

 

1J0 198 247 one set of round seals.

 

rotodiesel.

 

(I see the numbers on your link are lifted from the "official" EKTA diagram - at least they agree).

Edited 14 October, 2014 by rotodiesel

[jimbof]

Thanks. I picked up both from TPS today. Not fitted yet though am intreagued - the bracket looks so neat and purposeful without the very flimsy boot - which is clearly a bodge. Also notice the Mann o rings - though correct colour - seem a little softer than the vw ones.

[jimbof]

Fitted the part to raise the filter up. It looks like it adds 9mm or so to the filter height position relative to the mount. Still not totally convinced why it is needed - in my car I could get my finger under the spout of the drain without it fitted, and I can't see how anything under it could move to strike the filter. Though perhaps the non-genuine filters / spouts have been shortened to avoid the issue. Anyhow, I have taken some photos of the parts. Found something else which has had "expert" attention while I was in there - damaged connector lock. Grrr...