That pesky DPF (again)

[roguebrit]

Hi all. I had occasion to pop into the dealer yeaterday, and he gave me a copy of a Skoda leaflet, I take to be new, all about the DPF, with guidance notes and explanations etc. Perhaps you will all have seen it - I can scan it but I regret I don't have the means to post it here - this is by way of a 'heads up' for those interested.

Cynic that I am I am convinced its main point is avoiding liability and warranty issues in the event of a problem - there's a lot of that stuff spelled out too. I might try to see if I can OCR a scanned image, when I have a mo', and post the text.

[hmibennett]

Hi all. I had occasion to pop into the dealer yeaterday, and he gave me a copy of a Skoda leaflet, I take to be new, all about the DPF, with guidance notes and explanations etc. Perhaps you will all have seen it - I can scan it but I regret I don't have the means to post it here - this is by way of a 'heads up' for those interested.

Cynic that I am I am convinced its main point is avoiding liability and warranty issues in the event of a problem - there's a lot of that stuff spelled out too. I might try to see if I can OCR a scanned image, when I have a mo', and post the text.

That would be great if you could put a copy up here.

[roguebrit]

OK folks, managed to OCR the text. Hope this doesn't infringe any copyright! I guess it is acceptable anyway on the basis that it is in Skoda's interest for owners to see and digest. I haven't checked it all in detail, but it seems to basically be readable.

Roger

Skoda commitment to the environment

As the world becomes more environmentally sensitive, Skoda has responded by developing DPFs in conjunction with Common Rail diesel technology. The following information will explain the key technological features which contribute to making a cleaner and greener customer experience.

What is it?

In simple terms, the DPF is part of the exhaust system responsible for cleaning the engine exhaust gases before they enter the atmosphere.

Why have a DPF?

In order to meet European emissions legislation, it is necessary to find new ways to filter the exhaust gases and particles before they leave the vehicle exhaust system. The DPF uses advanced technology to perform this task. The exhaust smoke and black soot is reduced; the result is a cleaner environment and less pollution entering the atmosphere.

How does the DPF work?

In addition to converting the harmful exhaust gases, in the same way as a conventional catalytic converter, the DPF also catches soot particles emitted in the exhaust gas. The DPF continues to collect soot particles until a predetermined level is reached. At this point the DPF will clean itself through a process known as DPF regeneration. This process increases the temperature within the DPF and burns off the soot particles.

How will the DPF affect me?

In order to carry out the regeneration process the DPF needs to reach and maintain an exhaust temperature higher than its normal operating temperature. Under most conditions the vehicle is able to carry out the regeneration procedure unaided. However, in some circumstances where the required temperature cannot be achieved, i.e. frequent short journeys or stop/start driving, the vehicle may fail to regenerate the DPF. If this situation occurs the DPF warning light will illuminate on the dash.

What should I do if the DPF warning light comes on?

When the light shown illuminates, it means the vehicle needs help to carry out DPF regeneration. The procedure involves the vehicle being driven in a certain way to help increase the exhaust temperature. Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above. Higher engine speeds are perfectly acceptable where conditions allow. If the conditions described are not met and the DPF warning light does not switch off, the level of soot in the DPF will continue to increase. This will increase to a certain level, where two warning lights will appear together.

What happens if two or more warning lights come on together?

If two or more lights come on together, the DPF regeneration can only be carried out at a Skoda retailer or by Skoda Assistance. It is recommended that the vehicle is driven straight to a Skoda retailer or that you contact Skoda Assistance. Failure to adhere to this recommendation may result in reduced engine power followed by the DPF becoming blocked. If the DPF becomes blocked to the point where it cannot run through the regeneration process, the DPF will need to be replaced.

Is there anything else I should know about DPF?

· If the DPF needs replacing and the guidelines/recommendations made by Skoda have not been followed, the cost of replacement will not be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

· Frequent short journeys or stop/start driving may not provide optimum conditions for the regeneration procedure.

· Consider your driving style and length of journey to allow for the driving conditions required for DPF regeneration, as described in this leaflet and in the owner's handbook.

It is advised that you consider the important information outlined, before ordering a vehicle

with a DPF. For any further information please contact your authorised Skoda retailer or repairer.

Edited 25 November, 2010 by roguebrit

[900000]

How typical of Skoda UK to not even explain in the first line under "What is it?" exactly what DPF stands for! Doh!!!!

[roguebrit]

How typical of Skoda UK to not even explain in the first line under "What is it?" exactly what DPF stands for! Doh!!!!

In fairness to them, the leaflet is entitled 'The Diesel Particulate Filter for Common rail Engines' - and there is a heading inside, which isnt on the OCR'd text, that says that, and has DPF in brackets.

R

'

[eccleshill]

That is great information -thanks!

"Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above"

Has that OCR'ed properly? 700rpm?

It is advised that you consider the important information outlined, before ordering a vehicle with a DPF

I did! I now have a 1.8TSi

[900000]

In fairness to them, the leaflet is entitled 'The Diesel Particulate Filter for Common rail Engines' - and there is a heading inside, which isnt on the OCR'd text, that says that, and has DPF in brackets.

R

'

Ah! I take that back then!

[Agerbundsen]

You are right it's a CYA leaflet, but at the same time, don't blow it up to proportions that do not exist.

I do short trips a lot for weeks on end with the worst thinkable combination - 2.0 170 HP TDI - and have no problems at all.

I do notice regeneration at times, but have never had a warning light come on.

[roguebrit]

You are right it's a CYA leaflet, but at the same time, don't blow it up to proportions that do not exist.

I do short trips a lot for weeks on end with the worst thinkable combination - 2.0 170 HP TDI - and have no problems at all.

I do notice regeneration at times, but have never had a warning light come on.

I am not intending to blow it up into anything - only just to share what is being handed out. I don't expect to have any problems with it at all - and don't think many others will either - but I think folks need to be aware, nonetheless - Skoda are concerned enough themselves to have produced the leaflet.

.

Edited 25 November, 2010 by roguebrit

[roguebrit]

That is great information -thanks!

"Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above"

Has that OCR'ed properly? 700rpm?

Yes, that's what it says, 700 rpm or above

[rockhopper]

Yes, that's what it says, 700 rpm or above

so, letting it idle for 25 mins would be fine?

Mike

[roguebrit]

so, letting it idle for 25 mins would be fine?

Mike

Well, that's not what it says:

'Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above'

'

[rockhopper]

Well, that's not what it says:

'Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above'

'

Yes I know, but isn't 700rpm tickover? which I guess is my point which I didn't make clear.

Mike

[roguebrit]

Yes I know, but isn't 700rpm tickover? which I guess is my point which I didn't make clear.

Mike

Yes, not too clear - but I imagine it means 'drive at at least 23 mph for 10-15 mins - in which case revs must be at least at tickover rate. It's not a very demanding regime!

[Trekker]

How about just ignoring the whole DPF issues until the day comes when the lights start coming on and at that point, simply replace the whole exhaust with a free flowing one and get a garage to sort the sensor so it always reports the DPF is okay - then we really do never need to worry about stupid expensive hardware going faulty or the engine losing power, nor how we drive our cars! Plus, we will get more MPG as there won't be any wasteful regenerations going on afterwards....

[Terfyn]

Just another example of limiting the customer's choice:-

Town and short journeys - Petrol or suffer the consequences

Rural or plenty of longer, relatively fast journeys - you may buy a diesel

Fortunately for me, I am in the latter category. i have not had any problems with my DPF - YET. But I agree with Trekker. If it fails put on a normal exhaust system.

[ejstubbs]

Drive continuously for about 10-15 minutes at a speed of at least 23 mph whilst maintaining an engine speed of 700 rpm or above.

The Yeti owner's manual says that if the warning light comes on: "the vehicle should be driven at an even speed of at least 60 km/h at engine speeds of 1 800 - 2 500 rpm for at least 15 minutes or until the warning light goes out with the 4th or 5th gear engaged". 60kph is rather faster than the 23mph stated in the leaflet. Which is correct?

[Agerbundsen]

The Yeti owner's manual says that if the warning light comes on: "the vehicle should be driven at an even speed of at least 60 km/h at engine speeds of 1 800 - 2 500 rpm for at least 15 minutes or until the warning light goes out with the 4th or 5th gear engaged". 60kph is rather faster than the 23mph stated in the leaflet. Which is correct?

The manual is correct, and you need some load on the engine to generate enough exhaust temperature, so the idle or 23 mph has to be a misprint.

[ejstubbs]

the idle or 23 mph has to be a misprint.

To be fair, the leaflet as reported here never said anything about idle, it said 23mph whilst maintaining at least 700rpm. How some people seem to have interpreted "whilst" as meaning "or" is a bit of a mystery...

[survey]

You are right it's a CYA leaflet, but at the same time, don't blow it up to proportions that do not exist.

I do short trips a lot for weeks on end with the worst thinkable combination - 2.0 170 HP TDI - and have no problems at all.

I do notice regeneration at times, but have never had a warning light come on.

What are the signs when regeneration takes place?

[ejstubbs]

What are the signs when regeneration takes place?

It goes and stands in an alcove down in cargo bay two

[Trevorminor]

How about just ignoring the whole DPF issues until the day comes when the lights start coming on and at that point, simply replace the whole exhaust with a free flowing one and get a garage to sort the sensor so it always reports the DPF is okay - then we really do never need to worry about stupid expensive hardware going faulty or the engine losing power, nor how we drive our cars! Plus, we will get more MPG as there won't be any wasteful regenerations going on afterwards....

And then when it gets to three years old and it fails the MoT on emissions ?????............

[rockhopper]

What are the signs when regeneration takes place?

You don't recognise it as it has transformed into another person vehicle

Mike

[ducatiman]

I don't have a Skoda Yeti (yet) but do have probelms with DPF on my wife's existing car (Suzuki Grand Vitara DDis - Renault engine). As had been said above don't blow this out of proportion as it doesn't seem too prevalent on Skoda's.

However for us the problem is persistant i.e. the DPF light (amber) is on more often than not. The recommended regeneration of driving for 30mins @ 60mph isn't that easily done in my part of the world other than getting up at 5am to find an empty road. Any constant driving does regenerate the DPF but it doesn't be long before light is back on. Having consulted with service dept of local Suzuki dealer they tell me that at some point the DPF light could go red and may mean a new DPF @ £1500 fitted. So replacement isn''t cheap.

Not wishing to scare anyone but I'm informed that constant clogging of the DPF causes diesel to overrun into the engine sump. The bio diesel element of this (7% I think) doesn't easily evaporate thus oil level may rise but more importantly if left to go on can cause engine damage.

I understand on some of the more expensive cars that when the DPF needs regenerated that the engine remaps itself to run a bit hotter (slight increase in fuel consumption) but there's no indication of this taking place hence no worries.

there's also the option to use engine oils specifically engineered for use with DPFs but these are expensive (wouldn't you know)

I sounds as if the Skoda's don't suffer as badly as other make w.r.t DPFs but it is an increasing problem across many makes of vehicle. For now all manufacturers are falling back on the owners manual recommendation for conastant driving for a period to regenerate but real problems do exist with these DPFs and the car industry is under some pressure to look at this.

Best solution is described above - get the effing thing taken out completely.

Just my tuppence worth

[Trekker]

And then when it gets to three years old and it fails the MoT on emissions ?????............

I understood that the removal of the DPF does not effect the normal MOT emissions test.

I had a quick look on the internet and found a company called Sinspeed who actually remove DPFs for a living and they say:-

Removing the DPF will not cause you to fail an MOT, we can guarantee this. It will not bring up any error messages and the car will not go into LIMP mode. Also, you will never experience any Regeneration messages where the ECU normally attempts to clean the DPF – this is because the DPF is no longer existing.

Finally, you will experience an overall increase in performance, smoothing out any flat spots and safeguard the life of both your engine & turbocharger.

http://www.sinspeed.co.uk/blog/tag/mazda-6-dpf-removal-mot/