That pesky DPF (again)

[danbarnes]

How about just ignoring the whole DPF issues until the day comes when the lights start coming on and at that point, simply replace the whole exhaust with a free flowing one and get a garage to sort the sensor so it always reports the DPF is okay - then we really do never need to worry about stupid expensive hardware going faulty or the engine losing power, nor how we drive our cars! Plus, we will get more MPG as there won't be any wasteful regenerations going on afterwards....

That's what I intend to do as I have a 170 tdi and only travel 4 miles to work. If any ones dpf light is going to come on then I am sure that mine will. I was aware of this at the time I ordered my yeti but see it as a risk I am prepared to take.

I have been looking on some web sites regarding getting it removed and it would seem to me that it is cheaper than having the thing replaced, the car will still pass its m.o.t. And as a bonus will have 205 hp.

[rockhopper]

That's what I intend to do as I have a 170 tdi and only travel 4 miles to work. If any ones dpf light is going to come on then I am sure that mine will. I was aware of this at the time I ordered my yeti but see it as a risk I am prepared to take.

I have been looking on some web sites regarding getting it removed and it would seem to me that it is cheaper than having the thing replaced, the car will still pass its m.o.t. And as a bonus will have 205 hp.

Does removing the DPF really make that much difference?

I drive around London, never to the same place more than twice, could be 1 mile (tend to walk) or more, can cover up to 3-40 miles a day driving around South London. When I ordered the car I was doing a different job and was travelling between 500-750 miles per week. I would still order the Yeti as I wanted 4x4 with the DSG gearbox, and they don't yet do a petrol 4x4 DSG. The Scout isn't available with DSG yet either to my knowledge.

Mike

[Sanqhar]

One of my "Rules of Management" is:

"Don't run till you know you are being chased"

So if it gets to the point where a new DPF is required at some horrendous cost, then have it removed!

tom

[Freshacre]

D'you know? This is such a load of B****x from top to bottom.

They would not market a car which has the sorts of probs some fevered imaginations project.

Treat it as normal and it is dealt with. As they say "simples". Why get so excited about a minuscule possibility..?...

We can all get run over by a bus crossing the road!

(DPFs, Snowchains, DLRs, winter tyres, Xenons, - life is TOO short, yes? Unless we enjoy fussing!)

(ducks, and runs for cover!!)

Edited 25 November, 2010 by Freshacre

[rockhopper]

+1

[geordiebroon]

+2

[hmibennett]

+3

[Agerbundsen]

What are the signs when regeneration takes place?

The most noticeable is that idle speed increases from 800 to 1000 rpm and if you stop the engine, the cooling fan stays on for a few minutes. The exhaust also smells a little different - somewhat acrid from the NOx generated during soot combustion.

Edited 26 November, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[eccleshill]

D'you know? This is such a load of B****x from top to bottom.

They would not market a car which has the sorts of probs some fevered imaginations project.

I agree that this thread is perpetuating and exaggerating a few urban myths but here is a quote from the current Octavia brochure technical glossary. Interestingly the same information does not appear in the Yeti brochure - maybe they assume you will all be out charging through the countryside rather than trundling around on the school run.

DPF: diesel particulate filter is part of the exhaust

system responsible for cleaning the engine exhaust

gases before they enter the atmosphere. The DPF

catches soot particles emitted in the exhaust gas and

it works in conjunction with the catalytic converter,

which reduces the amount of harmful gases entering

the atmosphere. The DPF must periodically be

emptied of the soot particles, a process known as

regeneration. This involves elevated exhaust system

temperatures. A driving style is required during

regeneration, where a constant vehicle speed above

37 mph must be maintained. This does not always

suit customers who make frequent short journeys

or experience stop/start driving or drive within

inner-city or urban areas

The brochure can be found at

http://www.skoda.co.uk/pdf/brochure_octavia.pdf

[eccleshill]

I understood that the removal of the DPF does not effect the normal MOT emissions test.

I had a quick look on the internet and found a company called Sinspeed who actually remove DPFs for a living and they say:-

Removing the DPF will not cause you to fail an MOT, we can guarantee this. It will not bring up any error messages and the car will not go into LIMP mode. Also, you will never experience any Regeneration messages where the ECU normally attempts to clean the DPF – this is because the DPF is no longer existing.

Finally, you will experience an overall increase in performance, smoothing out any flat spots and safeguard the life of both your engine & turbocharger.

http://www.sinspeed.co.uk/blog/tag/mazda-6-dpf-removal-mot/

There is a thread somewhere about MOT test changes. In the near future (Jan 2012?) the MOT test is to be tightened and one of the things included is "illegal engine modifications".

Most people seem to have interpretted this as illegal chipping but what about DPF removal? The DPF is fitted to meet EU emission regulations so does removal constitute an illegal engine modification? Something to consider perhaps?

[survey]

The most noticeable is that idle speed increases from 800 to 1000 rpm and if you stop the engine, the cooling fan stays on for a few minutes. The exhaust also smells a little different - somewhat acrid from the NOx generated during soot combustion.

Thank you for answering my question sensibly!

[roguebrit]

Some interesting comments - I am one of those who believes that it will cause few, if any, problems and, in any case, it is no good anticipating and trying to cross bridges until and unless you come to them. Re one of the above comments, I cannot agree that winter tyres, for instance, come into the same category.

I didn't post the brochure to 'perpetuate and exaggerate' urban myths - strange comment IMO - I don't believe the thread has done that in any way. But I do believe that knowledge is essentially good to have, and also that drivers should be aware of Skoda's position, since they are making it a warranty issue in extreme cases, according to their leaflet. There is, however, a definate mismatch between information given in the leaflet, as opposed to the handbook re speed and revs required for regeneration, as pointed out above, and I have fired an enquiry to Skoda UK to ask which is correct, and point out the discrepancy. I would like to know for myself, that's all. That said, I am personally certainly not worrying about it!

[ejstubbs]

They would not market a car which has the sorts of probs some fevered imaginations project.

I tend to agree. I'm surprised no-one has raised the spectre of dual mass flywheels, something else for the "oh my god what have I bought" brigade to panic about (especially since the VAG 2.0 TDi supposedly has "known dual mass flywheel problems", according to the linked article - though it offers no supporting evidence for the statement).

[Terfyn]

A driving style is required during

regeneration, where a constant vehicle speed above

37 mph must be maintained. This does not always

suit customers who make frequent short journeys

or experience stop/start driving or drive within

inner-city or urban areas

Is no one for a quick blast down the nearest motorway? All you suburban types seem to live near fast roads of some sort. (except those who live near the M25 )

[Llanigraham]

Another PLUS for George's view!!

I have now had 3 cars over 7 years all with DPF, so have some experience of them. I have NEVER had a problem with them regerating or as LR call it, cleaning. The tick over speed increases slightly, on all of them the fans came on when stopped, and they all smelt a bit, but that was it.

No fuss.

No drama.

No problem!!

And both of the LR's had done nearly 100k when I got rid of them!

Roguebrit, fine you posted a link, but can you honestly say that they are impartial? Surely they are trying to sell their product? I will be highly sceptical of views promulgated by a company for their own benefit.

[roguebrit]

Roguebrit, fine you posted a link, but can you honestly say that they are impartial? Surely they are trying to sell their product? I will be highly sceptical of views promulgated by a company for their own benefit.

I have no view on their impartiality or otherwise. I took the trouble to post the text of a leaflet Skoda are handing out, thinking that it might be a service to others who might be interested to read it, and that's all!

I am thinking that I will never bother to do such a thing again, as people seem somehow to assume I am adopting a particular position when, in fact, I have never indicated anything of the sort! Myself, I share your view - and that of many others - and have said so several times above - I don't think its anything to worry about at all.

Edited 26 November, 2010 by roguebrit

[Llanigraham]

Please note, I did not criticise you, just questioned whether you thought it was impartial.

[roguebrit]

Please note, I did not criticise you, just questioned whether you thought it was impartial.

Thanks for that - I only thought it would be good to share what I had been given. If I am honest, I think that Skoda, like all organisations, are keen to protect themselves in case something they have done has repercussions they didn't anticipate, and that's a lot of the reason for the leaflet. I have driven more than 60K muiles in a vehicle with DPF and didn't give it a second thought - until now.

[Rob666]

The clue in these responses is the different locations and driving patterns of the respondents.

For those of us who spend most of our time doing less than 10 miles a trip at mostly 30-40MPH (but a lot of them) and an annual mileage of maybe 12k or less DPF does not seem to be good news. Especially if there is no ready access to high-speed roads.

If you do a lot of miles in rural conditions (or motorway) then no problem.

In my case, it's a five mile drive to the nearest decent stretch of fast road and most of my journeys are within this range, with weekly longer trips of 20 miles or so and a few miles off-road at very low speed and even more occasional trips of 100 miles or more.

Despite this, the annual mileage is 12k+ so a diesel would seem to be a good prospect. However, now I'm not so sure. If Skoda would produce the 1.4 TSI with 4X4 and DSG it would be a 'no brainer'.

[Onesque]

Glad at last to see some common sense being spoken regarding the DPF.

I do a lot of short trips taking my wife to work and general pottering about so on the one hand I am glad the issue has been raised and that I am aware of it. On the other hand I don't intend losing any sleep over it, every now and then I'll take the Yeti on a run.

What better excuse do you need, "Darling I'm just popping out for an hour to regenerate the DPF". Hopefully dinner will be on the table when you return ..... or in the dog

[roguebrit]

Hi all - reluctant as I am to resurrect this - I wanted to report that I have just been called by someone called John (a colleague of Will's, he says) at Skoda UK Customer Service, replying to an email I sent them asking for clarification regarding the differing information being put out. In the leaflet - the text of which I posted at the front of this thread - it says that if the DPF warning light comes on, 'drive for 10-15 mins at 23 mph, at a minimum engine speed of 700 rpm or above'. Whereas the Manual says 'drive at an even speed of at least 60 km/h at engine speeds of 1800 -2500 rpm for at least 15 minutes'. Very different, and much more rational, to say the least. BTW ejstubbs pointed out the discrespancy, and Agerbundsen replied to the effect that the leaflet is wrong and the Manual is correct.

John at Skoda UK has just confirmed that this is correct, saying 'drive for 10 -15 minutes at about 40 mph, but importantly keep revs over 2000 rpm if possible. He agreed the leaflet is wrong - so I don't know what they will do about that - my dealer certainly had a substantial pile of them! There you go - just for information. I hope and trust no-one here is going to have any problem with the DPF regardless!

I am impressed, nevertheless, to have received a personal call regarding my query, rather than a 'stock' email reply - something I can't see many major car company's doing.

Edited 30 November, 2010 by roguebrit

[hmibennett]

Hi all - reluctant as I am to resurrect this - I wanted to report that I have just been called by someone called John (a colleague of Will's, he says) at Skoda UK Customer Service, replying to an email I sent them asking for clarification regarding the differing information being put out. In the leaflet - the text of which I posted at the front of this thread - it says that if the DPF warning light comes on, 'drive for 10-15 mins at 23 mph, at a minimum engine speed of 700 rpm or above'. Whereas the Manual says 'drive at an even speed of at least 60 km/h at engine speeds of 1800 -2500 rpm for at least 15 minutes'. Very different, and much more rational, to say the least. BTW ejstubbs pointed out the discrespancy, and Agerbundsen replied to the effect that the leaflet is wrong and the Manual is correct.

John at Skoda UK has just confirmed that this is correct, saying 'drive for 10 -15 minutes at about 40 mph, but importantly keep revs over 2000 rpm if possible. He agreed the leaflet is wrong - so I don't know what they will do about that - my dealer certainly had a substantial pile of them! There you go - just for information. I hope and trust no-one here is going to have any problem with the DPF regardless!

I am impressed, nevertheless, to have received a personal call regarding my query, rather than a 'stock' email reply - something I can't see many major car company's doing.

Skoda UK are doing quite a lot of personal calling at the moment - if you haven't already seen them, look at the threads re customer care and build times.

While the personal responses may be impressive, it has to be said that they are made because of the various inaccurate, misleading and contradictory pieces of information/advice/advertising put out by Skoda via leaflets, brochures, pamphlets, dealers and online configurators. Getting any two or three of these to agree is rather like getting a jackpot line on a pub fruit machine.

[Merlinman]

...or herding cats

I'm pleased Skoda's not in charge of my Christmas party!

[Freshacre]

...or herding cats

or shovelling smoke!!

[FAB-Bri]

I'm pleased Skoda's not in charge of my Christmas party!

... or producing cars