2010 VRS Braking System Issue!

[VRShaun]

Whilst driving to work this morning on the motorway I had to brake hard due to stationary traffic, during which the car seem to steer, dramatically, to the left and then back . This made me think that the car had some issues with the suspension.

So, on the way home I decided to test my brakes on a clear straight stretch of an A-road. I applied my brakes hard from approximately 40mph and then remove my foot from the pedal about 20mph; the wheels locked up and the car skidded all the way to a halt, even after I had removed my foot from the pedal at 20mph.

Clearly, there are two issues here:

1. The ABS did not work at all; no ABS lights, no foot pedal vibration (normally with ABS) and the presence of a skidding sound.

2. The vehicle decided to continue braking the vehicle to a halt after I had removed my foot from the pedal at 20mph. This worries me the most as it could be dangerous if it occurred on a motorway.

I will be on the phone to the dealership in the morning, but can anyone shine some light or had a similar experience?

Just to add some history, my car had the ABS Pump/system replace at 2 months old when it had ABS error warning light illuminated.

[a_waugh]

Sounds like a faulty sensor. Thinking there is pressure applied to the brake pedal when you take your foot off causing it to come to a complete stop.

I would get it seen to straight away, especially the way the roads are with the icy/wet conditions.

[dan yeates]

My Audi S4 (with ABS and ESP) did the same thing. I had to perform an emergency stop and the car didn’t slow down anywhere as sharply as it should have done. I luckily managed to swerve and avoid the broken down car just around a blind bend on small road with high sided hedges!! Scary stuff!!

I then tried to test the brakes and it pulled violently to the left which had me worried. I continued on until the country lane ended and I could find somewhere to pull over to inspect the car (not very far) but when I braked lightly I too noticed that the brakes remained ON! I had to rev it hard to even get it to move and it was now pulling to the right. I jacked the car up and soon realised that the right hand front brake was locked on, not completely but I couldn’t turn it by hand. The other brakes were off. I assumed (correctly) that when I had to brake hard the front left brake wasn’t working at all, hence why it pulled to the left, but later on after I braked again it had started to work again but had now got stuck on, hence why it was then pulling to the right.

I removed the ABS fuse to see if that helped and it did, although I think this was a coincidence. I think the brake had just freed itself off while I was stopped for 30 mins. So I limped to my workshop very slowly. VAG-COM stated there was an error with one of the ABS solenoids within the sealed ABS module. I sourced a used module with the same part number from another Audi and set to replace it. I wasn’t sure whether it was just an electrical fault or a mechanical fault within the solenoid and I decided to replace the whole, pump, electronic module and the hydraulic part. It just meant disconnecting the ABS pipes and unplugging the unit and replacing it, then bleeding it through.

However, when bleeding it through I couldn’t get any fluid out of the front right brake. Strange I thought. No matter how hard you pumped the brake pedal, nothing would come out. So I disconnected the hose from the metal pipe in the wheel arch and tried again. Fluid came out. Clearly there was something stuck in the flexible hose between the metal pipe and the brake calliper. I ended up putting one end on my airline and blowing compressed air through it. Eventually it popped out and flew across the workshop, but I have no idea what was stuck in there. I can only assume it was part of the solenoid I suppose. Put it all back together and it drove fine ever since. Never heard of the problem before though. I don't think mine was showing a light or warning on the DIS either.

I’d get them to replace the ABS module and CHANGE the brake fluid.

Edited 15 December, 2010 by dan yeates

[VRShaun]

I phone Skoda UK this morning on my way to work and told them what had happened; they seemed concerned and suggested getting the car to any dealership ASAP. I've made arrangements to drop the car off at a dealership close to work (Bedford) later this afternoon when a courtesy car becomes available.

I will keep you all updated how things develop.

Cheers for your comments; it seem the Octy has had a few ABS system issues:(

[jrw]

I would phone Skoda Assistance - they will sort it and supply you with a hire car if they need to take it away - it is a danger and should not be on the road.

[dan yeates]

Yes, I wouldn't be driving it. As I said with my Audi, that brake would either be locked on or locked off at random intervals. Not safe at all.

[Hauptmann]

Sounds like the electrohydraulic valve block is faulty. Best thing if the dealership simply replaces the whole unit, rather than attempting any sort of repair...

[VRShaun]

I didn’t realise that I could use the Skoda Assistance to pick my car up. It would of made it less inconvenient and safer for me! I'll remember for the next time, if anything else happens, I hope not :S

The car was dropped off at the dealership this afternoon; the head mechanic thought that the brake pedal felt unusual and he was horrified by what had happened.

Initially, SUK had requested, to the dealership, for the mechanic to be taken out in the car by me to demonstrate the fault. I thought this was a very strange thing to ask of me with it being potentially dangerous. In the end the dealer saw sense and agreed not to, with it being rush hour and dark. The mechanic there seem clued up and I believe the car is in good hands to resolve the issues.

I'm hoping they can sort it quickly, as winter is on its way and I have some winter tyre to fit.

Cheers chaps!

[VRShaun]

***UPDATE - ABS Unit was plumbed in the wrong way round***

I called the dealership on Thursday morning for an update, the foreman said that the car was taken out for a brake test and that they had experienced the same as I did with the wheels locking up and staying locked after removing the foot from pedal. They then inspected the plumbing to the ABS unit and found that it had been plumbed in the wrong way round.

After my phone call to dealership, I then called Skoda UK to tell them that I have been driving a death trap for 5 months after having a warranty repair carried out by one of their franchises and I was really horrified at what had happened. The chap (Phil S****) I spoke to was quick to dismiss this and that he would need to speak to the dealer first.

One hour later, I had a phone call from the dealership that had the car to say that the car was fixed and ready to be picked up. He also mentioned that his first diagnosis was incorrect and that the ABS unit was just incorrectly placed. I then asked him to be more specific; "if the unit was plumbed correctly and the pipes where intact, what was the issue that made the system operate like it did?" He had no valid response and didn't know he was talking to an engineer with hydraulics experience.

Anyway, after the phone call to the dealership I felt that the Skoda UK had influence the dealer not to fully divulge what had exactly happened in an attempted cover it up. I then called the SUK; Phil said that the ABS unit was fitted incorrectly by the dealer who replaced it under the warranty repair and that SUK have no liability over this issue. I said to him now that the ABS unit is now connected up correctly, it doesn't rectify the seriousness of this issue and any ill effects to the unit made to operate in a way it’s not designed to do.

I did phone the dealer who fitted the unit the wrong way round, I spoke to the head chap there and he did apologise for what happened. However, he did seem to think that everything was all ok now that the unit had been fitted correctly. I did point out to him that the only way I that I would happy for the unit to remain on my car is if the manufacturer confirms that no ill effects have been cause when it was fitted incorrectly or I would insist on a new replacement.

Overall, between Skoda UK and the franchise that fitted the ABS unit the wrong way round, I don't think they understand how serious this issue is! After all, I did nearly go into the back of a bus when the wheels first locked up during the bad weather. I am expecting some kind of good will gesture from them for putty my and girlfriends safety at risk, and follow the recommendations of the ABS manufacturer (Bocsh?) on this issue.

[pluves1]

Mistakes do happen. :S

However, on something like the ABS this can be quite a serious issue as you say. I would be looking for some sort of goodwill gesture from the dealer. Although they have now solved the issue (fingers crossed) it doesn't hide the fact that their first attempt went badly wrong.

I'm not sure how Skoda UK can help. If you still have faith in the dealer let them try to make up for the error of their ways. However, if you've lost confidence and have access to another dealer why not ask them to check over the work to ensure everything is okay and that by fitting it incorrectly in the first place this has caused no further damage. The work will now be logged on the Skoda system so if you do get problems I'm sure you'll have no problem getting them to help and its still got a lot of warranty left.

[VRShaun]

Mistakes do happen. :S

However, on something like the ABS this can be quite a serious issue as you say. I would be looking for some sort of goodwill gesture from the dealer. Although they have now solved the issue (fingers crossed) it doesn't hide the fact that their first attempt went badly wrong.

I'm not sure how Skoda UK can help. If you still have faith in the dealer let them try to make up for the error of their ways. However, if you've lost confidence and have access to another dealer why not ask them to check over the work to ensure everything is okay and that by fitting it incorrectly in the first place this has caused no further damage. The work will now be logged on the Skoda system so if you do get problems I'm sure you'll have no problem getting them to help and its still got a lot of warranty left.

Unfortunately, mistakes do happen and I do feel sorry for the dealer who got it wrong, as they proably intended to do a good job.

The plumbing issue has been corrected, but I believe that technical authoriy from Skoda/ABS manufacturer must be consulted to ensure that the ABS unit is still safe to use after its previous installation. Without this I have no covidence in the repair.

Thanks for your suggestion; I''ll have my local dealer (Farmers Liecester) check the vehicle over. One of my mate said the AA offer good advice too.

[Hauptmann]

The repairer must have been trying hard to get it wrong. If you remove the ABS unit and then refit, its quite difficult to connect the pipes incorrectly. You would have to 'force' them into the wrong positions - they are cut, angled and shaped exactly to fit.

After doing any brake work of this nature its always been my procedure to put the car on the rolling road and do a check for efficiency and balance, then a road test on a local lane. Run the nearside tyres along the verge and hit the brakes to bring the ABS in.

When R&R'ing an ABS unit it really should be thoroughly checked out before handing back to the customer. I don't have any sympathy for the dealer. In too many dealerships these days its all about getting the job done as quickly as possible, hitting the KPI's and 'upselling' as much work as possible. Quality of workmanship goes out of the window - and this is the result.

[TorqueDude]

Make sure you check your tyres for flatspots. If they have been playing about trying to find faults, then some extended skids may have occurred during the rectification process that may have damaged your tyres. Its worth a look!

[VRShaun]

The repairer must have been trying hard to get it wrong. If you remove the ABS unit and then refit, its quite difficult to connect the pipes incorrectly. You would have to 'force' them into the wrong positions - they are cut, angled and shaped exactly to fit.

After doing any brake work of this nature its always been my procedure to put the car on the rolling road and do a check for efficiency and balance, then a road test on a local lane. Run the nearside tyres along the verge and hit the brakes to bring the ABS in.

When R&R'ing an ABS unit it really should be thoroughly checked out before handing back to the customer. I don't have any sympathy for the dealer. In too many dealerships these days its all about getting the job done as quickly as possible, hitting the KPI's and 'upselling' as much work as possible. Quality of workmanship goes out of the window - and this is the result.

Hauptmann, thanks for your comments, you sound like a time served mechanic who knows what he is doing.

I understand that all the brake pipes in the engine bay are hard lines, they must of really forced it in by bending pipes. Do you think the pipes should be replaced after them being cold worked?

I agree, a safety critical systems like the ABS should have functionality checks after any work has been carried out. After speaking to the dealer (SMC Exeter) who fitted the unit incorrectly, apparently there are no procedures provided by central skoda to ensure this kind of issue doesn't happen. I believe that Skoda, the provider of the warranty, has a responsility to ensure that all warranty repairs, carried out by any of their franchies, shall be to a set standard of quality.

[VRShaun]

Make sure you check your tyres for flatspots. If they have been playing about trying to find faults, then some extended skids may have occurred during the rectification process that may have damaged your tyres. Its worth a look!

That should be easy enough as the wheels are sitting in the kitchen after fitting my winter wheels. I only drove 60 miles after the repair was carried out. I will give the a check over tomorrow, I hope they are ok as there still penty of meat on them. I will let you know, cheers for your advice!

[Hauptmann]

Hauptmann, thanks for your comments, you sound like a time served mechanic who knows what he is doing.

I understand that all the brake pipes in the engine bay are hard lines, they must of really forced it in by bending pipes. Do you think the pipes should be replaced after them being cold worked?

Yes, they are all metal lines.

I can't imagine how they managed to connect the unit up wrongly, so I can't say if any damage will have occured to the lines.

I would have though the ABS unit itself should be OK.

Absolutely unbelievable story though....