Cold Start problems with a PD TDI 170

[Urpeth]

Keep us updated Urpeth, mine is booked on for three days (12th, 13th & 14th) i.e three cold starts, for them to try and diagnose the problem.

If the camshaft sensor cures your hot starting issue then it might also be the cause of my cold starting issue.

Yep - no problem.

P.S. I read one of your earlier threads last night about condensation and ice building up on inside of windscreen and everything you described is true.

Last year was particularly bad for me, as I had mould building up on the carpet and very damp seats that turned out to be a cracked washer pipe. Luckily I had it fixed under warranty, as it had destroyed some of the electrics in the steering column.

However, since - I still suffer from excessive condensation and internal ice build up and you were correct to say it seems to be inherent to Octavias.

[Urpeth]

Keep us updated Urpeth, mine is booked on for three days (12th, 13th & 14th) i.e three cold starts, for them to try and diagnose the problem.

If the camshaft sensor cures your hot starting issue then it might also be the cause of my cold starting issue.

I had the camshaft sensor replaced yesterday and so far so good, but I'll be putting the car through its paces over the next few days and will report back ASAP.

[Grizzle]

Sounds very much like a camshaft sensor, my BMW had something similar turned out it was that £75 later i fitted it my self right enough took two mins.

[Auric Goldfinger]

Just been out to my TDi VRs (07) which had it's Injectors replaced last Tuesday (11th Jan) temp just on Freezing car covered in Ice/Frost car Started first turn.

I just let the glow plug light go out, foot on clutch and turned the key, fired up first time.

So Far So Good

[Urpeth]

I had the camshaft sensor replaced yesterday and so far so good, but I'll be putting the car through its paces over the next few days and will report back ASAP.

Car seems to be running fine with new camshaft sensor. I'll only add more to the thread if I do experience any further problems.

[silver1011]

A quick update to this thread…

Skoda UK and my local dealer have been very good, I certainly got the impression that they wanted to fix this as much as me but unfortunately to no avail, after 3 visits and 10 days of diagnostics they simply cannot find the fault.

They asked me to keep an eye on things to see if it gets worse, the problem being as spring approaches I know the symptoms will disappear until next winter.

I arrived back from a week in Germany this morning; the car has been parked up at the airport all week. As it was below freezing I knew that the problem would be evident when I started the car so I took some video from which I hope you can make out the extended cranking and reluctance to start followed by the lumpy idle...

Edited 3 February, 2012 by silver1011

[Auric Goldfinger]

Sounds a bit like mine but mine settles down after a few seconds, revs are about the same too but then drop to 900rpm quite quickly

[MRFIXIT]

After reading your posts I can agree that this is somewhat tiresome, many years before I got my octy I had a Peugeot 306 with cold start problems, so I replaced the battery , no change.

So then I decided to venture out and buy original beru glow plugs that were not cheap I hasten to add. After a two hour mess around and cleanup tried the car and she fired straight up. Failing it being that the only other thing it could be was either glow plug relay timer gone duff or the fuel sludging due to Subzero temps.

If you decided to change the plugs inspect carefully for fouling or eroded tips as this would suggest dirty injectors. As someone mentioned I also use redex diesel and a tank of optimax shell diesel just to give her a kick up the ass.

Good luck in finding the the answer ; )

[Jane_i10]

mine is still having this problem and to be honest i dont think we are ever going to find a cure :(

Does any have or know any one who has a brand fire new Octavia? Surly this cant be a problem with a brand new car, just a thought

[MRFIXIT]

The only thing I can suggest is keep on with your dealership as they have a legal obligation to sort it,I know time is preciousand waiting for the car is mundane but we have all been there but I am sure the outcome will be sooner rather than later.

[silver1011]

I do intend to pursue this for as long as I can, something is not right and Skoda should be able to tell me what is wrong without me paying for components on a trial and error basis.

We can rule out the injectors as they were replaced a few months ago under recall and have been out to be examined at least twice. They also removed and visually checked the glow plugs, even sending pictures to a technician at Skoda UK who confirmed that they looked fine. Also glow plug faults should log as a fault and therefore be picked up on the diagnostics.

It was even worse this morning, the display read -5, I didn't think it was going to start :(

http://s717.photobucket.com/albums/ww171/beautilicious-cosmetics/Octavia%20vRS%20Cold%20Starting/?action=view&current=4thFebruary2012.mp4

Edited 4 February, 2012 by silver1011

[Jane_i10]

Silver, mine cranks for that long when its about 1 degree's, i dont want to try -5, it most likely wouldt start!

Upeth got her crank sensor changed, did this help or was this for the warm start problem?

On thing leaned at college, it pretty universal and very basic but it is a tried and tested solution;

Essentially an engine need 3 components to start;

Air; i doubt this is problem as air flow is free

Iginition; even though it is a diesel it would be pretty hard to start without glow plugs, these have been tested on silver's car and we can put this to bed

Fuel; This is where iv got a hunch the problem could be. Injectors have been changed and iv heard enough reports of this not aiding cold starting so that can be ruled out, so work our way back up the fuel line and think of possibilities;

Air in the fuel lines

Fuel too cold

Pump/pressure slow or low in the fuel lines...you get the idea

This is obviously not a problem that is not unique to the 2.0 tdi, as i had the same problem with my 1.9tdi and it is hereditary to the diesel.

Its old fashioned mechanics but it works..all i need now is a warm garage, set of tools and plently of coffee

Rule out the simple problems, if an engine is getting air and fuel and starting with a strong ignition then and only then do you use the laptop, for all we know it could be a simple rubber seal that is perished, no vagcom is going to pick that up

[Grizzle]

Have they checked the starter? although that wouldn't give the reason for the lumpy idle, reason i mention is my petrol DMF is knackered and its eating starter motors and occasionally starts roughly.

[Guest]

I had my battery checked at a service yesterday thinking that the poor starting was due to a weak battery. Garage gave it a total clean bill of health, I also had my injectors all replaced a few months ago. Seems I am not the only one who has a car that struggles to get up in the morning...

[rsbspt]

I've had the same problem for three of the four years I've had the car (vRS PD TDI). It was 'liveable with' until recently when the injectors were replaced under warranty. Now it takes extended cranking to fire up when cold and coughs and wheezes before finally running smoothly. Glow plugs also replaced to no effect.

On one of these threads it was suggested the cause was cam sensor, but I can't see that, since it only happens when very cold (ambient below 3 degrees).

The only posiitve is that the new injectors have significantly improved fuel consumption...

[Anddenton]

I've had the same problem for three of the four years I've had the car (vRS PD TDI). It was 'liveable with' until recently when the injectors were replaced under warranty. Now it takes extended cranking to fire up when cold and coughs and wheezes before finally running smoothly. Glow plugs also replaced to no effect.

On one of these threads it was suggested the cause was cam sensor, but I can't see that, since it only happens when very cold (ambient below 3 degrees).

The only posiitve is that the new injectors have significantly improved fuel consumption...

Hmmmm increased fuel economy and problematic cold starting! I wonder if these cars are now somehow running lean?

[rsbspt]

Hmmmm increased fuel economy and problematic cold starting! I wonder if these cars are now somehow running lean?

I'm sure they are. And that's one reason why the cold starting's got worse...

[silver1011]

Silver, mine cranks for that long when its about 1 degree's, i dont want to try -5, it most likely wouldt start!

Thanks for the basics Ema, I had it all planned out in my head what I wanted to say to the service manager including what you posted.

If the diagnostic's aren't picking up the fault yet we all agree that there is a fault then perhaps they need to go back and apply the basic principles like those you listed. However it felt condescending to try and tell the bloke (who was genuinely trying to help) to go back and tell his techs to put the bloody laptop down and get their hands dirty by physically checking some oily bits

If your car is taking as long to start as mine (in addition to those who also complained in the earlier posts in this thread) this must be a relatively common problem? I’m surprised you are putting up with it / find it acceptable. The thought of driving around with a fault in the engine doesn’t sit right with me and I want it fixing.

I've been recording the starts every morning this week and posting them on the hosting site linked previously. Skoda UK is passing these clips on to their techs so I am awaiting their recommendations. Hopefully they can do better than telling me to 'suck it and see for a little while'.

If they can’t find the problem who can!?

-8 this morning, prolonged cranking / half starting / lumpy idle, can't be doing my battery any good either :'(

[Jane_i10]

Im not over the moon iv got a starting issue but i cant be bothered and cant afford to be driving back and forth to DM Keith all the time

Someone mentioned the battery, i doubt this as cranking speed is fine and there no delay on turning the key

[Anddenton]

My guess with these problems would be that the engine is simply running too lean (cold starting problem and a lot of people saying they also get a big jump in fuel economy when injectors changed) could it be that the injectors just aren't delivering enough fuel to the engine due to their set up or how they are coded into the ECU?

[silver1011]

It is possible I guess, although it is worth noting my MPG has since dropped back to what it was before the injector change.

Now this could be down to the anti-waxing agents in winter diesel, the increased load on the engine from the heater, fan, heated mirrors / rear screen etc. or simply the colder outside temepratures?

Are there any other side effects from an engine running too lean?

[Anddenton]

Are there any other side effects from an engine running too lean?

Not sure on a diesel could be slightly down on power I guess?

[Jane_i10]

It is possible I guess, although it is worth noting my MPG has since dropped back to what it was before the injector change.

Now this could be down to the anti-waxing agents in winter diesel, the increased load on the engine from the heater, fan, heated mirrors / rear screen etc. or simply the colder outside temepratures?

Are there any other side effects from an engine running too lean?

The most obvious sign of an engine running lean is black smoke but thanks to eco friendly skoda they have a DPF on so the smoke will be hidden, only other way of telling is if the DPF fills up quicker then normal

And obviously been down on power and one sign that just come to me now is the engine will run hotter i.e the cooling fans will come on faster then normal

[Auric Goldfinger]

Intresting read

Winter Diesel

[silver1011]

The most obvious sign of an engine running lean is black smoke but thanks to eco friendly skoda they have a DPF on so the smoke will be hidden, only other way of telling is if the DPF fills up quicker then normal

Hmmm, lots of people complaining of repeated DPF regens since the injector change, although they seems to reduce over time...