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2.0TDi PD140 turbo dying (now How to upgrade to a hybrid turbo)


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#1 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:42

So, my Octy 2 (103000ish miles) went into limp mode on Sunday after I overtook a lorry, got it checked yesterday, overboost error, so they looked under the bonnet. What used to be some small oil leaks from the turbo pipes (which 3 garages tell me is normal for this car at this age) has now become oil leaking out of the turbo as well and larger leaks from the pipes.
There were also error codes for 2 of the glow plugs, but not major I imagine as no engine warning light or service light on dashboard.
The turbo whine is also louder now than it has ever been.

So, I'm nursing it around now, turbo still works, haven't pushed it at all. But I know it's on it's way out.

3 garages I've spoken to have said not to use recon turbos, 2 of them couldn't quote me a price for a new turbo at that time, one of them quoted me £1100 for parts and fitting.

Now that's a lot of cash which I don't really have right now, is it worth going to a garage that will fit me a recon? if so what cost would I be looking at for that? or are they right and I'll likely not even get a year out of it, and the 12 month warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Anyone got any experience with replacing turbos on their PD140s? I see lots of posts on here about people having this issue, but never any posts about people's experience after the work has been done.
Or I could just not be using the search function right :)

Edited by Antimus, 25 August 2011 - 09:26.


#2 vRS_Pagey

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 10:49

So, my Octy 2 (103000ish miles) went into limp mode on Sunday after I overtook a lorry, got it checked yesterday, overboost error, so they looked under the bonnet. What used to be some small oil leaks from the turbo pipes (which 3 garages tell me is normal for this car at this age) has now become oil leaking out of the turbo as well and larger leaks from the pipes.
There were also error codes for 2 of the glow plugs, but not major I imagine as no engine warning light or service light on dashboard.
The turbo whine is also louder now than it has ever been.

So, I'm nursing it around now, turbo still works, haven't pushed it at all. But I know it's on it's way out.

3 garages I've spoken to have said not to use recon turbos, 2 of them couldn't quote me a price for a new turbo at that time, one of them quoted me £1100 for parts and fitting.

Now that's a lot of cash which I don't really have right now, is it worth going to a garage that will fit me a recon? if so what cost would I be looking at for that? or are they right and I'll likely not even get a year out of it, and the 12 month warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Anyone got any experience with replacing turbos on their PD140s? I see lots of posts on here about people having this issue, but never any posts about people's experience after the work has been done.
Or I could just not be using the search function right :)

I would do a search mate, there are loads of topics regarding the turbo failure on the PD140.

I'm no expert but, for £1100 I reckon you could get a hybrid turbo supplied and fitted, that way you will never have the problem again and it will be tunable up to 200bhp. :thumbup:

#3 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 10:53

I would do a search mate, there are loads of topics regarding the turbo failure on the PD140.

I'm no expert but, for £1100 I reckon you could get a hybrid turbo supplied and fitted, that way you will never have the problem again and it will be tunable up to 200bhp. :thumbup:


Forgive my ignorance, what's a hybrid turbo?

#4 martinch

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 11:09

Anyone got any experience with replacing turbos on their PD140s? I see lots of posts on here about people having this issue, but never any posts about people's experience after the work has been done.

The actuator rod on my parents' PD140 Octavia stuck, meaning that the turbo seemingly didn't work at all (no noise, felt like a non-turbo diesel). There were no warning symptoms (no siren noise, smoke, etc), it just "died". It was replaced for a new one under warranty by the supplying dealer in spring, and so far has been fine (touch wood).

Apparently, TPS only list service-exchange turbos in their booklets ... around £750 + VAT, IIRC.

#5 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 11:13

The actuator rod on my parents' PD140 Octavia stuck, meaning that the turbo seemingly didn't work at all (no noise, felt like a non-turbo diesel). There were no warning symptoms (no siren noise, smoke, etc), it just "died". It was replaced for a new one under warranty by the supplying dealer in spring, and so far has been fine (touch wood).

Apparently, TPS only list service-exchange turbos in their booklets ... around £750 + VAT, IIRC.


If only mine was still in warranty :(
I keep finding posts on here with people having the issue and 90% of them are still in warranty, heh. I guess I was both lucky AND unlucky to have it last this long :)
That's a bit cheaper. If I can get a hybrid for around a thousand though I'll probably go for that, if it is that reliable.

#6 martinch

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 12:29

If only mine was still in warranty :(

Doh! :( Our one is marginally newer than yours, but was thankfully under the Approved Used warranty. :)

#7 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 12:40

I'm thinking if I do get this fixed, an aftermarket warranty is on the carts, warrantydirect maybe

#8 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 12:48

You need to search better ;)

I had a turbo failure, turbo replacement and it's all documented in quite a lot of detail Posted Image

I went to Turbo Technics, who supplied a hybrid (strengthened components) - this comes with a two year warranty. Labour cost will be around 4hrs. Believe me when I say you're far, far better getting this sorted before the turbo eventually dies. As it may take other components with it (cat, exhaust system, intercooler, damaged pipework etc).

Contact some turbo companies and get quotes. Then have a competent mechanic, or independent specialist fit it.

#9 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 13:00

You need to search better ;)

I had a turbo failure, turbo replacement and it's all documented in quite a lot of detail Posted Image

I went to Turbo Technics, who supplied a hybrid (strengthened components) - this comes with a two year warranty. Labour cost will be around 4hrs. Believe me when I say you're far, far better getting this sorted before the turbo eventually dies. As it may take other components with it (cat, exhaust system, intercooler, damaged pipework etc).

Contact some turbo companies and get quotes. Then have a competent mechanic, or independent specialist fit it.


Wardy,
Not much information on costs. Mine hasn't exploded yet so I shouldn't need a new intercooler, etc. Though I'm sure the pipes will need a thorough cleaning out and such.
How much was the Hybrid Turbo? and the fitting? cheers

Edited by Antimus, 24 August 2011 - 13:25.


#10 Golf-Fiend

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 13:28

You need to search better ;)

I had a turbo failure, turbo replacement and it's all documented in quite a lot of detail .



And me three ;)

#11 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 13:38

And me three ;)



Problem with searching is, unless you know the user who had the problem, you get bogged down with key words. I did a search for hybrid turbo octavia 2.0tdi and I got 20 pages of useless.
As soon as I added Wardy as a contributor, it was top of the list, that'll be the same with yours I'd guess.

When a forum is used as much as this one, searching becomes fairly useless when a topic becomes more than a month old because so many keywords like fault and turbo and such occur so often that it bloats search results.

As I said in my first post, all of the search results I found weren't of any use.

I'll have a look at yours now, Wardy's didn't answer any of my questions on cost or benefits, though it was useful.

Edit: ah, had already read yours, not much use as yours was all dealer costs, I wouldn't be going near a dealer with this as it's out of warranty

Edited by Antimus, 24 August 2011 - 13:41.


#12 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:07

if I DID get a hybrid turbo, would I be able to get a local garage to fit it? or would it need some changes to the ECU for it to work correctly, i.e. specialist

#13 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:14

Alright, alright - give me a chance! :)

My labour cost would be far in excess of a straightforward swap anyway, as there was quite a bit of diagnostic and troubleshooting time involved. Plus increased parts costs. Though if you want a scare, you're welcome to the full breakdown!

For a straightforward swap, you're looking at circa £700 inc VAT for the Turbo Technics turbo for the PD140 BKD, around £80-100 in fitting parts (gaskets, new bolts etc) and 4-6hrs labour depending. So the latter depends on your local rates really. You don't state where in the country you are, so hourly rate could be anywhere from £50-80 realistically for an independent? So labour best case £200, worst case £480 - on my rough calcs.

Does that help??

#14 martinch

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:15

When a forum is used as much as this one, searching becomes fairly useless when a topic becomes more than a month old because so many keywords like fault and turbo and such occur so often that it bloats search results.

The search feature can be frustrating (it's actually quite hard to build a decent one!). Sometimes it's worth using Google on the site instead - just go to Google.com and type in "<search terms here> site:briskoda.net" - it can be more controllable as you can force inclusion (adding a "+" in front of the term) or exclusion (adding a "-"). :)

#15 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:16

+1 - I can understand the search function frustrations too.

Using Google as your start point is highly recommended, and you can easily tailor the search requests to suit. In fact, at the moment Colin recommends it himself, as the way to go - until such time as something better is developed; it's not easy though...

#16 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:32

Alright, alright - give me a chance! :)

My labour cost would be far in excess of a straightforward swap anyway, as there was quite a bit of diagnostic and troubleshooting time involved. Plus increased parts costs. Though if you want a scare, you're welcome to the full breakdown!

For a straightforward swap, you're looking at circa £700 inc VAT for the Turbo Technics turbo for the PD140 BKD, around £80-100 in fitting parts (gaskets, new bolts etc) and 4-6hrs labour depending. So the latter depends on your local rates really. You don't state where in the country you are, so hourly rate could be anywhere from £50-80 realistically for an independent? So labour best case £200, worst case £480 - on my rough calcs.

Does that help??


Thanks, that's pretty useful.
I'm in South Yorkshire, though I've found no real specialists around here I have asked for a quote from Derv Doctor.
So ballpark figures based on that it could be anywhere between £1000 to £1300 including all parts and fitting, that could be doable.

As I wasnt expecting to spend this much money at the moment I don't want to get it remapped to high heavens yet, maybe give it a year so I can replace the clutch first...

I had a similar issue to yours with a Seat Leon 1.9TDi a few years back, unfortunately when my turbo went on that it threw debris into the engine and killed it outright, now that wasn't a good day at all.

Edited by Antimus, 24 August 2011 - 14:39.


#17 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:40

The search feature can be frustrating (it's actually quite hard to build a decent one!). Sometimes it's worth using Google on the site instead - just go to Google.com and type in "<search terms here> site:briskoda.net" - it can be more controllable as you can force inclusion (adding a "+" in front of the term) or exclusion (adding a "-"). :)

Thanks! will do that in future, very useful to know :)

#18 vRS_Pagey

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 14:59

Alright, alright - give me a chance! :)

My labour cost would be far in excess of a straightforward swap anyway, as there was quite a bit of diagnostic and troubleshooting time involved. Plus increased parts costs. Though if you want a scare, you're welcome to the full breakdown!

For a straightforward swap, you're looking at circa £700 inc VAT for the Turbo Technics turbo for the PD140 BKD, around £80-100 in fitting parts (gaskets, new bolts etc) and 4-6hrs labour depending. So the latter depends on your local rates really. You don't state where in the country you are, so hourly rate could be anywhere from £50-80 realistically for an independent? So labour best case £200, worst case £480 - on my rough calcs.

Does that help??

So to confirm, a hybrid turbo from Turbo Technics will be ball park 700 quid, then ancillaries plus labour costs. Based on my mechanics hourly rate I would be looking at under the grand for the whole job. Thinking out loud it may be a worthwhile upgrade anyway. :thumbup:

After fitting what else is required? Some kind of map adjustment or would the ECU adapt?

Steve did yours require all the extra diagnostics etc due to it taking out the exhaust and intercooler?

#19 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:03

Thinking out loud it may be a worthwhile upgrade anyway. :thumbup:


My thoughts too.
Assuming Derv Doctor doesn't come back with a quote near that I just need to find a specialist in the S Yorks area that can do it

#20 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:25

Thanks, that's pretty useful.


Pretty useful?! Can't think what else you'll need to know....


So to confirm, a hybrid turbo from Turbo Technics will be ball park 700 quid, then ancillaries plus labour costs. Based on my mechanics hourly rate I would be looking at under the grand for the whole job. Thinking out loud it may be a worthwhile upgrade anyway. :thumbup:

After fitting what else is required? Some kind of map adjustment or would the ECU adapt?

Steve did yours require all the extra diagnostics etc due to it taking out the exhaust and intercooler?


Yes, that's just it yeah. Map adjustment is advisable, even if you don't want more power as the spooling characteristics of the hybrid is different, and will produce peak torque slightly later. But it is OK to leave it on the original map if you wanted. Obviously if you're going to remap anyway, the hybrid will give you access to more power, or produce stage-1 power more easily, with less effort. I'm going down the latter route, for info Posted Image


My thoughts too.
Assuming Derv Doctor doesn't come back with a quote near that I just need to find a specialist in the S Yorks area that can do it



Derv Doctor would be a good shout. And there are also other turbo companies who could oblige, aside from Turbo Technics. Turbo Dynamics, AET Turbos, CR Turbos - I contacted all of these and they each had options for the PD140 BKD. I chose Turbo Technics based on my mechanic's prior relationship with them, he was happy - and the warranty was decent too.

Cheers,
Steve



#21 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:28

Bit more info from Turbo Technics:

Info on their hybrid units: http://www.turbotech...urbo/hybrid.htm

PDF catalogue of their offerings: http://www.turbotech...s/catalogue.pdf

Online shop for prices: http://www.turbotech...hybridrange.htm

For browsing purposes on the shop section, look at the Audi A3 2.0TDI BKD or VW Golf BKD 140 BHP options. Same setup on each.

#22 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:31

Sorry wardy, was in deep thought when writing, you did provide everything I needed to make a decision, thanks.

I went to Derv Doctor because I'd prefer a company that can do the whole job including tweaking the map to suit the new turbo. I don't really have a local garage that I would trust with work like this. I did have one but it shut last year :(

Did you notice any big differences in fuel economy between the standard and hybrid turbo at all?

#23 k.young

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:42

Turbo Technics. They give a 2 year warranty with their exchange units, and their units are slightly modified to be more reliable. You don't have to go Hybrid, they do a standard unit for around £500

#24 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:49

Strangely, I called Turbo Technics and got a quote, but they said they couldn't fit it, even though their website says they have a workshop and do fit them? Will keep them in mind for supplying though.

K.young. Thanks, I'm definitely going for the hybrid though :)

Edited by Antimus, 24 August 2011 - 15:49.


#25 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 15:49

Sorry wardy, was in deep thought when writing, you did provide everything I needed to make a decision, thanks.

I went to Derv Doctor because I'd prefer a company that can do the whole job including tweaking the map to suit the new turbo. I don't really have a local garage that I would trust with work like this. I did have one but it shut last year :(

Did you notice any big differences in fuel economy between the standard and hybrid turbo at all?


No worries. The biggest issue is getting a trusted place to sort the work for you.

For this setup and running slightly more power, average fuel economy won't be affected. Especially not if you choose to maintain the standard map. In fact, engine mapping set to take account of the hybrid unit would see your economy on a run increase. The only time I've seen economy diminish is when I had my Fabia set up to make fuller use of the hybrid setup, plus an FMIC. That was mapped upto 220bhp but average economy was still 45mpg, compared with 48mpg average when I had it at stage 1 power, or around 175bhp. Not a bad trade-off I would say...

#26 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 16:00

No worries. The biggest issue is getting a trusted place to sort the work for you.

For this setup and running slightly more power, average fuel economy won't be affected. Especially not if you choose to maintain the standard map. In fact, engine mapping set to take account of the hybrid unit would see your economy on a run increase. The only time I've seen economy diminish is when I had my Fabia set up to make fuller use of the hybrid setup, plus an FMIC. That was mapped upto 220bhp but average economy was still 45mpg, compared with 48mpg average when I had it at stage 1 power, or around 175bhp. Not a bad trade-off I would say...


I am liking the sound of this immensely. Just need that quote back from DD. or to find a local specialist. Anyone know somewhere trustworthy around Yorkshire area? the fact I'm willing to travel to Derby to DD is telling I'd imagine :)

#27 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 16:10

RS Tuning in Leeds spring to mind. Their maps are reputable as well.

http://www.rstuning.co.uk/

#28 Stuart_J

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 16:19

Also look for a lowish mileage s/hand one. I bought one earlier this year for a Petrol VRS for £100, still going perfectly. NOTE they come matched to a manifold as will a new one so make sure you get that with it

Edited by Stuart_J, 24 August 2011 - 16:20.


#29 Antimus

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 16:22

RS Tuning in Leeds spring to mind. Their maps are reputable as well.

http://www.rstuning.co.uk/



Just called them, they've quoted 5 hours at £45 +vat so £270, not including the map.
They also offered to convert my current turbo into a hybrid for £595, now given that I can get one from Turbo Technics for around £650 I'm assuming it's a better idea to stick with the TT one? mine's on it's way out so I'd rather not re-use parts from it.
He also said it's unlikely that the £650 one from TT is new as I'd be looking at over a grand for that? I hate being a newb in these situations, I've no idea if he's right or not...

Edited by Antimus, 24 August 2011 - 16:22.


#30 Wardy

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 16:25

OK - that gives you some more info. Have you talked to TT direct yet? Yes, it's likely that the unit they'll sell at £650ish is a refurb unit, where they'll take it in, upgrade it, then supply it with warranty. That's the route I took.

Then you could always sell your old unit on, for someone who wants to send that off for re-building. You'll get some cash back that way, probably via eBay.




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