225/50/17 versus 215/60/16

[Runswick Stag]

I know this has probably been done `to death` before but can anyone confirm or deny that there is a noticeable differance in the ride quality between 225/50/17 tyres and 215/60/16? Iam finding that although the ride is quite good over normal road undulations, I can feel every pebble on the really rough bits, having done the various calculations, there would be an increase in sidewall height on the 16" tyre of about 19mm, is this enough to make that much differance?I have considered come tyre change time to get a set of moon alloys and go to 16" tyres. As yet I haven`t driven a Yeti with the 16" wheels, but has anyone got any views? I have also got a Fabia on 195/55/15 tyres and to be honest that is more comfortable in certain respects than the Yeti!

[carnivorous]

The Fabia has much softer suspension...the tyre difference is debatable and you will get contrasting opinions on here I reckon. The Yeti is never going to have a "soft" ride.

[The Plumber]

My very unbiased opinion is the 16" is by far the better option for ride comfort along with grip; had Skoda build my current Yeti with 16" alloys rather than the 17's after my experience with a previous Yeti SE.

Also have a Fabia with standard 16" alloys and 205/45 tyres, always look forward to putting the winter 195/55 R15's on as it so improves the ride.

TP

[Expatman]

I test drove Yeti's with 17" 50 profile tyres and 16" 60 profile tyres back to back and the difference was obvious. The 16" wheels with deeper sidewalls gave a much more comfortable ride with no loss of "feel" compared with the 17" wheels, particularly over the rutted surfaces all too typical of British roads! If you search on this Forum you will see much has been written about this - The Plumber was the first to special order a Yeti with 16" wheels and mine is due sometime in March. Skoda Customer Services will sort out 16" wheels for you if you persist.

[Delboyyy]

For me the difference has been marginal but I am comparing 17" standard and 16" winter rubber.

Have run Dunlop SP01`s 17x225x50 April to October for last two years and Vredestein Wintrac Extreme 16x215x60 in the winter months, both on alloy rims. Have not noticed any discenable difference in ride quality but the Dunlop`s feel better on corners where the winter rubber has more sidewall flex when turning in sharply.

The Vredesteins are brilliant in snow (Central Scotland last winter)and really shift water and slush well. I can highly recommend them as winter tyres.

Cannot comment if 16" summer tyres are better than the 17" ones for ride quality or if the tyre manufacturer and load index makes more of a difference with stiffer sidewalls etc.

Del

[A16NS V]

Sorry to hijack but what about road noise and refinement...do the 16's offer a quieter driving experience too?

[Expatman]

Sorry to hijack but what about road noise and refinement...do the 16's offer a quieter driving experience too?

I remember the whole driving experience to be better on the 16's but it was only a test drive I will give a better report after a few months with my Yeti - when I get it! Other forum members have more experience and one I think has owned both a 17" shod and a 16" shod Yeti.

[The Plumber]

Sorry to hijack but what about road noise and refinement...do the 16's offer a quieter driving experience too?

Road noise can be very dependant on the tyre manufacture, pattern, wear level and road surface. Therefore difficult to judge but I think the 16's have it, even running continental PremiumContact2 as the factory fitted summer tyres, which many comment on as a noisy tyre (poor grip to unless it's warm and dry).

TP

[mbrock]

Slightly off topic - I had a loan Fabia Monte Carlo yesterday on what one would think were ridiculous 205/40x17 "rubber bands".  It actually rode remarkably well, probably better than our Yeti on the 225/50x17s!

Mark

[rockhopper]

I have been using my winters on 215/60 R16, Continental WinterContact TS830 at the rear and TS810 at the front (long story).

My summers are 225/50 R17 Dunlop Sport 01.

My 16" wheels are definitely more comfortable, despite the higher pressures, and surprisingly are quieter and more economical according to my fuel consumption figures. I still feel the lumps and bumps, but not as much as with the 17" rubber bands. If funds permitted, I would fit 16" Moons on my Tonka Toy.

It was a joy to put the 16" wheels back on, and I'll keep them on as long as I can.

[carnivorous]

I would guess that the 16s are giving you better economy as they probably weigh a fair bit less - less rotating unsprung mass = less fuel.

[Photoemt]

Coming from 225/55/17 on my previous Yeti to 205 55 16 on my present Greenline I can confirm what others have said about the increase in ride comfort with the 16". It is a noticable difference but bear in mind what has already been said in earlier posts i.e the ride will always be a bit firm in the Yeti but thats what makes it such a good driver's car. The 16" are also much cheaper to replace and you'll find a btter selection of tyres available at that size compared to the 17".

[Pete-n]

The 16"wheel and tyre are more comfortable to drive due to the increase in sidewall height and are cheaper to replace however the 17" wheel and tyre are so much sharper in cornering and fast direction change due to the reduction in sidewall height flexing , i get this question at least once a week from customers complaing of comfort issues or handling etc and to be honest there is no perfect tyre for a car but you have to find the perfect tyre for them as we all drive and use our cars in different ways.

The noise issue is another story with the yeti the arches being like speaker pods they amplfiy the road noise it seems , when i had my original tyres on the goodyear excellence they really let you know they where there on motorways so when i got to 30,000 which is the most mileage i've ever had from a set of tyres i decided to install pirelli pzero rosso's what a great improvement in comfort noise and even sharper handling so tyre brands make a huge change .

Edited 29 February, 2012 by Pete-n

[Photoemt]

On that topic Pete-n what is your opinion of the Continental Premium Contact 2 in relation to road noise, would the Pirella be a better choice in terms of road holding and road noise when it comes time to change?

[freedie]

My 170 Elegance, collected just before November last year, was fitted with Pirelli PZero Rosso 225/50/17s as standard from new. They are the dogs; andI will probably replace like with like (not to soon I hope).

[Photoemt]

Sounds like what I'm after as I don't like these Contis they remind me of a set of Semperits I had years ago on a Mark 3 Escort.

[mbrock]

No experience of Pirellis on the Yeti, but my last two Jags came with factory-fit Pirellis (P Zero Nero and P Zero) and in both cases I couldn't wait to get rid of them (for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s and Dunlop SP Sport 01s respectively).  Tramlining, sensitivity to standing water and poor wear rates.  General opinion on the Jag forums seems to be the same.

Mark

[rockhopper]

I would guess that the 16s are giving you better economy as they probably weigh a fair bit less - less rotating unsprung mass = less fuel.

Without weighing them, I would say that both sizes weigh very similar, the steel wheels are very heavy, and the 17" alloys are not 'lightweight'

[carnivorous]

Sorry I thought you had 16" alloys, which I "guessed" would weigh a bit less.

[900000]

Sorry I thought you had 16" alloys, which I "guessed" would weigh a bit less.

Yes there is not much in it. First time I changed to my steel winters I was well surprised by the weight of the alloys.

[speedsport]

I've had Pirelli P Zero Rosso 225/50-17's from new and they are certainly susceptible to tram-lining and 'pull' noticeably in standing water. However, their road-holding in the dry and also on damp surfaces is extremely impressive. Turn-in is far better than I was expecting for a car of this height/weight, which suggests a stiffish sidewall. This translates into a less compliant tyre when it comes to poor road surfaces though.

On Mull last October, I wish I'd had my winters on as they would have been better at absorbing the broken roads up there. The big negative mark for the P Zero's is their appalling grip in snow. Mind you, I shouldn't have expected a tyre that's fitted to Ferraris to be a good winter tyre too! Wear rate doesn't seem too bad, I've still got 5mm all round after 16,000 on them, but then I'm not sure what to expect on the Yeti.

My winters are Avon Ice Touring 215/60-16 which are far more compliant when it comes to road surface imperfections but, whilst good, don't give the same confident feel as the P Zeros. They are noticeably noisier, especially at low speed, but I put this down to their more aggressive tread pattern. The Avons didn't do as well in the Auto Express winter tyres tests as Goodyear & Michelin.

I agree with Rockhopper that the Yeti 17" Alloys are heavy, I don't think overall that there's much difference between the 16" steels & 17" alloys when shod with their respective tyres.

[rog737]

For me the difference has been marginal but I am comparing 17" standard and 16" winter rubber.

Have run Dunlop SP01`s 17x225x50 April to October for last two years and Vredestein Wintrac Extreme 16x215x60 in the winter months, both on alloy rims. Have not noticed any discenable difference in ride quality but the Dunlop`s feel better on corners where the winter rubber has more sidewall flex when turning in sharply.

Similar combination of tyres here although my winters are on steelies and I agree entirely with your observations - no significant difference in the ride, but definitely nothing like as sharp handling on the 16" winters. Also a bit more road noise from the winter tyres but that is probably down to tread rather than profile.

[Pete-n]

With regard to the continental noise it's slightly better than the goodyear but i find the product to fall off a cliff in terms of grip after 3mm is reached on wet roads not something that suits my driving or expectations.

The reason they remind you of your semperit's is most likely down to the fact they are the same family of products semperit , continental and uniroyal are all made by the cup group who manufactures all of them in the same factory in some cases and delivered on the the same paperwork all paid for to continental tyres

Peter

[mike57]

'The Plumber' and 'Pete-n' are correct in what they say.

I hesitated to join in as I know people expect to see what tyre is 'best' for their car. And as an ex product development manager for an international tyre manufacturer I know there is no simple answer that could be given without careful side by side testing. Eg on a recent winter test there were over 200 wheel changes over 3 days and it needed a lot of statistical analysis of the test results to sort out rankings for the new design against its competitors. That included testing the same set of tyres at the start, middle and end of a group of tests so that you could correct for the changes in snow conditions over the three hours of testing.

A similar set of testing would then be needed on other tracks to rank noise, dry handling, wet handling etc.

Even for just one individual tread pattern and size (225/50 R17 say) there can be construction differences between the speed ratings (H,V etc) that will affect harshness.

If you compare different rim diameters from different manufacturers its even more difficult to predict.

Each tyre design is a compromise of many factors aimed at suiting their specific target market eg a luxury saloon, high performance saloon or family saloon could all use the same nominal size but would feel very different.

Magazine tests are a good starting point for the general public to begin choosing their tyre as long as you remember that a professional tyre tester will identify nuances in behaviour almost impossible for the average driver to spot (and anyway the tyre would also behave slightly differently on a different car model)

If you can, drive on the tyre you prefer on a similar vehicle to yours and if it feels OK then stop reading any other reports..............

ps I will be getting 215/60 R16 winters to go with the summer 225/50 R17 from the factory and do expect a less harsh ride (but I also expect less precise handling and possibly more noise). I will use my old company's tyres because I will get a discount but otherwise wouldn't have any qualms about fitting any major brand.

Edited 1 March, 2012 by mike57

[speedsport]

'The Plumber' and 'Pete-n' are correct in what they say.

I hesitated to join in as I know people expect to see what tyre is 'best' for their car. And as an ex product development manager for an international tyre manufacturer I know there is no simple answer that could be given without careful side by side testing. Eg on a recent winter test there were over 200 wheel changes over 3 days and it needed a lot of statistical analysis of the test results to sort out rankings for the new design against its competitors. That included testing the same set of tyres at the start, middle and end of a group of tests so that you could correct for the changes in snow conditions over the three hours of testing.

A similar set of testing would then be needed on other tracks to rank noise, dry handling, wet handling etc.

Even for just one individual tread pattern and size (225/50 R17 say) there can be construction differences between the speed ratings (H,V etc) that will affect harshness.

If you compare different rim diameters from different manufacturers its even more difficult to predict.

Each tyre design is a compromise of many factors aimed at suiting their specific target market eg a luxury saloon, high performance saloon or family saloon could all use the same nominal size but would feel very different.

Magazine tests are a good starting point for the general public to begin choosing their tyre as long as you remember that a professional tyre tester will identify nuances in behaviour almost impossible for the average driver to spot (and anyway the tyre would also behave slightly differently on a different car model)

If you can, drive on the tyre you prefer on a similar vehicle to yours and if it feels OK then stop reading any other reports..............

ps I will be getting 215/60 R16 winters to go with the summer 225/50 R17 from the factory and do expect a less harsh ride (but I also expect less precise handling and possibly more noise). I will use my old company's tyres because I will get a discount but otherwise wouldn't have any qualms about fitting any major brand.

Brilliantly put! Many thanks.