cambelt change interval

[stevensmith91]

Hi guys can anyone tell me the cambelt change interval on a 1.9tdi Sport , I was told by someone it was every 36 months but that can't be right surely .

The car has only 20,000 miles on the clock

Edited 4 May, 2012 by stevensmith91

[irfant]

Every 4 years

or at 90K km

I've seen 5 year old cambelt, it was rubbish

[stevensmith91]

Cheers for that information

[Ad Lav]

Used to be 4 years and 60k miles. They might make up their minds one day.

[jrw]

Its 80k miles actually and for some unknown reason 4 years.

[spinna]

The four years is due to the fact that the rubber deteriorates, regardless to some extent ,of mileage.

Just spent the last couple of weeks getting these facts from SUK, as I wanted clarity.

So different builds of same models and different models of any vw group car may have a different mileage interval, but the 4yrs bit is consistent.

In most cases you'll hit the age limit before the mileage.

A lot of people say 4yrs is too early, but with something like this, personally I'm happy to be paranoid.

[jrw]

It is way too early, based on 2 points:

They use continental lifetime belts

and

skoda UK are the only country in the world that has this time limit.

Do they use different belts in the UK? Does the UK have a unique micro climate to the rest of the world which makes the belts perish? I think not.

[spinna]

Fair enough, but they're saying for a reason.

They're probably covering themselves.

There is so much conflicting information on this, which is why I contacted Skoda.

[irfant]

skoda UK are the only country in the world that has this time limit.

Same limit in Turkey too

Also Continental belt

A pic from 4 years old belt (after 50K km)

Edit: It is not a cambelt, wrong pic, sorry

Edited 7 May, 2012 by irfant

[spinna]

Same limit in Turkey too

Also Continental belt

A pic from 4 years old belt (after 50K km)

Thanks for the confirmation that I'm not going mad.

I'm glad I changed mine at 40000miles 4 1/2 yrs.

I will trust Skoda UK's judgement in this case and ignore pedants.

[jrw]

Same limit in Turkey too

Also Continental belt

A pic from 4 years old belt (after 50K km)

is that a lifetime belt off a Cr?

[GeneralPurpose]

Irfant, that 's a good pic of the belt. I've seen many many belts from all makes of car that look like that after 4-5 years. Even continental lifetime belts! We also have cut up belts that looked perfectly ok and found that internally, they are also starting to break up even though they look fine on the outside. Surveys carried out by manufacturers and the AA, the MAA all show the UK is fairly unique in that our cars have a much tougher overall time on the roads than in other countries. It's to do with all sorts of factors and includes weather, the way we treat our roads in winter with huge amounts of salt, the way we use out cars and the traffic conditions we encounter (we have the highest density of cars per mile than anywhere else in 'urop'). This makes quite some difference to how our cars behave and last. It's why our service interval vary a bit to some other european countries too. Interesting point: many manufacturers rely on doing 'real' tests for their pre-production cars in the uk rather than anywhere else due to our 'unique' conditions that pound their cars into the ground much more effectively. The UK experiences every type of weather condition within it's borders to severe levels every year so it's a good place to do that. I know this because I've just spent several weeks in the R & D of a big european motor manufacturer (sorry, can't say who).

[rotodiesel]

Utter rubbish.

The 4 year belt change is in my opinion, a UK generated VAG scam aimed at recouping lost revenue caused by variable servicing. It's a clever scheme because it works on a combination of paranoid fear and the "love" factor in a comparatively new vehicle. They know older vehicles go to the independents, so the 4 year "catch" period is critical to the scheme.

The picture above is an auxiliary belt and not a cambelt. The belt shown above is also perfectly servicable as the makers allow minor cracking in the non-reinforced regions of the belt. Deep cracking across the whole width would be a reason for rejection. The lack of dirt in the cracks suggests that it was over-bent after removal. The cracks are recent.

The 4 year cambelt change instruction works in the UK because the Brits are soft enough to swallow it. VAG know perfectly well they would never get away with this in the US - they don't even try it. Nor do they anywhere else.

If this is not a scam, why is there no mention of a 4 year change requirement in the printed service book supplied with the vehicle? This book of course, goes to all the UK speaking markets....

Think about it - you're being had. The VAG diesel cambelt drives are fine for the stipulated mileage given in the service book - I've done enough of them. If the rubber "deteriorates" in 4 years, how do Ford offer a 10 year life? Neither Ford nor VAG make belts.

On the VAG diesels, I would be far more concerned about the small idler bearings and the water pump - if the idlers are OK the belt is almost everlasting.

Stick to the printed service book recommendations.

rotodiesel.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by rotodiesel

[irfant]

@ rotodiesel

It is a cambelt of Fabia Mk1 101 hp Here are the same day pics from the above mentioned belt.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by irfant

[rotodiesel]

The picture above my post is an auxiliary belt. A cambelt has teeth running across the width of the belt to maintain timing.

The picture below my post is a cambelt.

Obvious.

rotodiesel.

Edited 7 May, 2012 by rotodiesel

[irfant]

Sorry, you are right, my very first pic is not an cambelt, apologize

But their wear was the same, I search my archive for the correct pic

Edited 7 May, 2012 by irfant

[jrw]

Sorry, you are right, my very first pic is not an cambelt, apologize

But their wear was the same, I search my archive for the correct pic

I presume then as it is a MK1 Fabia then it wont be a CR and therefore wont have the lifetime belt.

Pointless arguement as the service book for that will show 4 years (I know as i also have a 130PD Bora). The New books within the last 4 years don't have a time limit.....They have gone to the effort of removing this from the interval when they could have just left it in. As said, it is a scam for the UK.

[GeneralPurpose]

Roto, if you stick to the service book recommendations you will be much more likely to 'break' a cambelt on some engines especially a PD. Even in many other countries some manufacturers don't recommend leaving it to the book figures although the service manuals still say the same as our UK books. You are completely wrong in your assertion that it's only the UK. Things move on from when the books are printed based on what is happening 'in the field'. Ford, Fiat, Vauxhall and VAG have all updated their advice for the UK as do other manufacturers for cambelts and other service items. It's an almost continuous process on some models and engines especially in the first few years of being released as the in the field operational picture become clear on failures and problems (used to be part of my area to feedback to manufacturers). Lifetime belts are a bit of a red herring as they don't last a lifetime on many engines. but they are better than the standard belts. But we found they only last about 20k more miles before degradation starts, on average. You can never rely on the manual that's always the rule of thumb, and always has been. Techs have to rely on the manufacturers information not owners manuals which can quickly go out of date. But there is no scam, just people who think there is. On a footnote. I've just taken a look at my cambelt on my nearly 4 year old PD engine and it looks like it's ready for a change. Lots of surface degradation to teeth and the back of the belt and fairly typical of a PD belt, but no splits yet. Mine's under warranty so I'll be taking it in to be done with it's four year service. I'll be making sure the water pump and idler are replaced also, as you say they are just as important.

[rotodiesel]

I have been involved in diesel engine test and development - mainly on large units - and would make the following observations:

There is nothing like having a large number of engines in service with a lot of hours under their belt to define service requirements. The PD is an old unit now and those who work on them and test them will have a better idea of their real service requirements than anyone else. VAG documentation is so poor, inconsistent and confusing then I would give it second place to actual experience.

The PD engine has a highly stressed timing drive due to the peak loadings of the unit injectors. VAG address this by means of a wide belt and a damped auto tensioner - fair enough. There are however 3 serious weaknesses in the timing drive of this unit (the actual belt is not one of them) as follows:

1. The water pump is on the tight side of the belt with a significant wrap angle. This unreasonably loads its bearings and a failure here will cost the owner an engine.

2. The crank wheel has 20 teeth and the belt has 120. By making these two numbers exactly divisible VAG have guaranteed a high level of stress on specific belt teeth. On a well designed drive these numbers are never exactly divisible. (PSA use 21 and 163).

3. The small idler runs at too high a speed to maintain satisfactory bearing lubrication. This is the biggest weakness of the PD engine and this component has been revised by its maker (INA) several times. Take an old one out and hold it by its axis and shake it. It will rattle as the grease has been centrifuged out of it. Luckily the bearing loadings are light, but this is the most likely component to fail, closely followed by the water pump. I have taken apart old idlers and they are invariably dry - and sometimes rusty inside.

The tensioner is well made by Litens (Canada) and uses high quality NTN (Japanese) bearing races. I have never seen a bearing failure here. Two belt makers have the OE business - Conti and Dayco. Both are good with my preference going to Conti as the backing does not crack. In itself, the belt is about the least likely component to fail although a seized idler bearing or water pump will inevitably destroy it - secondary damage.

That is about the total of my experience with these drives - use a whole (Conti) belt kit and change the water pump at the mileage stated. Time does not enter into it, although I would renew components after 6 or 7 years due to lubricant loss or degeneration in the idlers.

rotodiesel.

Edited 8 May, 2012 by rotodiesel

[GeneralPurpose]

I agree with most of what you say Roto. Time limits are there for several reasons but I have noted that in practice going over time limits does increase the potential for a breakage due to tensioner failure and/or water pump weep. Manufactures are wary of this. Belts often go as collateral damage as you indicate and not as the primary failing unit. But the result is of course the same.

[Waffoorn]

I have followed this cam belt saga as my Fabia is due for service next month. I asked my main dealer what the parameters were for changing a cam belt. On their servicing computer it says 5 years or 90,000 km whichever is the sooner.Thankfully I'm not close to either. Also at the same time I was quoted £59 for a brake fluid change.

[Rooted]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Skoda might say not yet, and if you owned the car from new,then good.

If you buy a Used car, Ex Lease, Ex Hire Car, Ex Driving School some people do a Big Service anyway,

just so that they know it is done and then where they are starting off from.

 

So if you are looking at the brake fluid change does that mean your car is 3 years old?

How many miles has it done.?

 

56,000 miles / 90,000 km.

(no idea why a UK Dealers Service Desk Employee gives it in km when the UK is still not fully Metric & giving in miles is more appropriate.)

[SurreyAlan]

I asked about the belt on my 3 yr old 60k 1.2 TSI at the dealer and they said it should be changed at 40k which sounds ludicrous, had a Citroen C4 before where they recommended 100k. As most of my mileage is motorway cruising they didn't seem to think it was that essential for it to be done. All seems a bit hit or miss.

[Rooted]

Amazingly Skoda Dealerships will sell you a Skoda Approved Used car that has in excess of 40,000 miles covered,

and they might well not have changed the belt.

 

Hit or miss, or they just sometimes are taking the pith!

[aubrey]

Interesting post by rotodiesel, I've just done my 2nd cambelt kit and water pump change on my Roomster 1.9PD, still took me 9 hours to do. The car is only up to 50,000 Miles and is now on its 3rd cambelt. I think that is too much and for the 2nd time the belt looked fine when I took it off.

I'm sure that next time I will at least go 5 years before my cars 4th cambelt.