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#1 GeoffRS

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:25

Does anybody know if the hill start assist can be disconnected? I have a Fabia vrs and the DSG gearbox makes this hill start assist a real pain.

#2 jonny boy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:52

What.?
I'd be lost without it. IMO it's one of the best features on the car.
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#3 irfant

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:32

Does anybody know if the hill start assist can be disconnected? I have a Fabia vrs and the DSG gearbox makes this hill start assist a real pain.


Is there a gearbox software available for vRS?

Mine has become perfect after that update (faster coupling, faster throttle response)

#4 Moist Von Lipwig

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 10:41

What.?
I'd be lost without it. IMO it's one of the best features on the car.

The HHC is great, takes a bit of getting used to and fighting the urge to use the traditional manual box method of handbrake and clutch control.

Not sure why Geoff is looking to disconnect it, whether it is not working correctly, not being used correctly or is just a personal dislike of it. Not judging by the way!

When I first got the vRS it took me an age to get used to the DSG having driven manuals for the past twenty years. The HHC was disconcerting to start with but once I got used to it and trust it, it makes driving round town a breeze, especially as there is a couple of junctions on hills I regularly use. It probably does make you a lazy driver though and will be interesting when I have to drive a manual again.

#5 Gumby

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 14:59

You pretty much need it in an auto I'd say.
Yes, it does take a while to get used to but once you do, its really very clever and useful.
The first time I experienced it, I was trying to get up the slope on my drive just by letting off the brake and allowing it to move on the clutch. The brakes were applied but the engine was trying to fight it, until it suddenly jumped forward.
I've now worked out that just moving the accelerator a tiny bit is enough to tell the HHC to release the brakes, then you can just let the car drive over the slope byitself.

#6 GeoffRS

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:26

I can see the point of this with a manual gearbox, but not the DSG. The DSG has only 2 foot pedals and most people have 2 feet, easy.
Trying to enter into heavy traffic with no time to mess about, you set off and the brake is still on. I just do not like it.

#7 jonny boy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:44

I can see the point of this with a manual gearbox, but not the DSG. The DSG has only 2 foot pedals and most people have 2 feet, easy.
Trying to enter into heavy traffic with no time to mess about, you set off and the brake is still on. I just do not like it.


I don't get what you mean ?
It's used for 'hill assist'. There's a technique. Once stopped on an incline, press the brake. As usual, when the traffic begins to move completely release the brake pedal, then slowly depress the accelerator. It takes a few practices, but it works flawlessly for me. No more guessing the bite point on hills or the concern of a possible roll back. I absolutely wouldn't be without it.
You'd have so much more messing about engaging neutral, handbrake on, ready, press the release button, into 'D', then try and release the handbrake at the same time as the transmission bites ? That's a real PITA and the cars in a queue will be thinking "bloody Skoda driver" :giggle:

#8 xreyuk

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:51

I found this really weird in my car, mainly because I didn't know I had it. Now it's great, took a little bit of figuring out what made it release though.

#9 Lukeskywalker

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:57

I have to agree with the other guys, I love the hill start assist. It took a few weeks to get use to, but once you do it is brilliant, just go easy on the gas and don't rev too much.
Just out of interest geoff how long have you had your VRS? Ron.

#10 goneoffSKi

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:06

jonny boy,
do you mean that you are sitting with your foot on the foot brake and shining your brake lights in the eys of the car behind,
rather than going to a hand brake?

I do not want to sit on a slope halted at a Pelican crossing and have the car creeping forward or be unsure of how it is going to go off the line & cross the painted road surface.
*Yes i do know how to feather a throttle pedal & drive automatic cars, never ever driven manuals in 35 years.*
(there are such crossings & Traffic Light crossing.)

Wet day and a Zebra Crossing on a road with only a slight incline & it can be dangerous in a vRS.
Winter road surface below zero & also.
Total PITA in my opinion., & there will be accidents i am sure.

Now i almost always,
stop & go straight to the Hand Brake & Neutral, old school like every Automatic Gearbox driver had to untill this decade.

george

Edited by sk4gw, 13 May 2012 - 17:09.


#11 Moist Von Lipwig

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:09

I can see the point of this with a manual gearbox, but not the DSG. The DSG has only 2 foot pedals and most people have 2 feet, easy.
Trying to enter into heavy traffic with no time to mess about, you set off and the brake is still on. I just do not like it.

2 feet per person is the norm, but generally people don't use their left foot on the brake. When I have accidently used my le foot on the brake it was more of a digital thing than analogue, ie either on or off, so head bouncing forward and back. Now left foot stays on the foot rest.

Don't think there is any benefit to left foot braking for us mere mortals.

That said on the bike it is a bit more complex, left foot gears, right foot rear brake, left hand clutch, right hand front brake. Sounds complex but easy once you get used to it, probably the same as left foot braking I suppose.

#12 goneoffSKi

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:46

Its not designed IMO for monopeds like me (1 foot) or to suit others with disabilities.

Not actually talked yet to anyone thats had a vRS with DSG fitted with handcontrols, but i would be interested to.
I have driven fast Automatics & servo clutch cars with hand controls, but these were smooth systems & added to the vehicle,no way did they have problems with starting off from a halt.
Most have Throttle forward, brake back on the hand control.

I have driven 4x4's with 'Hill Start Assist', (totally different from Hill Decent Control.)
& 'Hill Assist Control', but they were diesel autos and the system was OK, if a little nn-necssesary IMO.

george

Edited by sk4gw, 13 May 2012 - 17:52.


#13 logiclee

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 19:42

I agree hhc and DSG in the Fabia is a bit hit and miss, sometimes it works well, other times it's a pain. If I'm in tight situations I'll have my foot on the brake pedal and the handbrake on, release the brake pedal and as the car powers against the handbrake I release the handbrake and add power. Only one foot required.

VW's full "Auto Hold" that is fitted to bigger VW's and Audi's is dream to use with dsg. As soon as you pull to a stop brake pressure on all four wheels is maintained and the clutch disengages so you can take your foot off the brake pedal. The car just sits there on any incline in D,S or manual without any pedal being pressed and the hanbrake off. When you touch the accelerator the brakes release and you drive away. No need to select Neutral or Park, no need to have your foot on the brake pedal and no need to put the handbrake on.
Should be fitted to all dsg models in my opinion. From what I can tell VAG currently only fit it to models with an electric handbrake for safety reasons as if you switch of the engine or the Auto Hold system disengages for any reason then the car can apply the handbrake. Would be a bit embarassing to turn off the car on an incline and it rolls away because you haven't put the handbrake on.

Cheers
Lee

Edited by logiclee, 13 May 2012 - 19:44.


#14 countryboy

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 19:31

HHC is of more use to drivers who don't use left foot braking as it allows for the time it takes to move the right foot off the brake and onto the throttle without the car starting to roll back.
iI

#15 sharkrider

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 23:21

it works perfectly. every time. you just need to move with the technology and use it correctly. I have never EVER had a problem, nor has any of the (numerous) other people who have driven my car.......

ask waplord..... these threads make me laugh.... like the ones such as "you cant move away smoothly" or "theres hesitation" or "it either doesnt go or wheelspins like mad"....

honestly....

just for fun at the wales meet , i had wap in the car and showed him all these different circumstances, and how the car works perfectly with none of theses problems, from hill holder to hesitation, to fast starts to slow starts to medium starts.... (because after all these things he is undecided about how good DSG is, or if its just a pig...) so I showed him ;)

just learn to use the technology... dont be stuck in the past....

PM me for my number if you need some driving lessons ;)

Shark. DSA ADI

*waits for flames........ (sorry just got my computer back , and though iit was time to reintroduce sanity :p )
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#16 WillWord

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 07:23

it works perfectly. every time. you just need to move with the technology and use it correctly.

just learn to use the technology... dont be stuck in the past....


+1 :thumbup:

#17 Kie

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:42

Does anybody know if the hill start assist can be disconnected? I have a Fabia vrs and the DSG gearbox makes this hill start assist a real pain.


You Crazy :wall: :no:

#18 newbie69

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 13:02

I've read all kinds of complaints but disconnect HHC? Why on earth would you want to do that? The only thing you should understand is to begin with a gentle push (rather than slam the gas pedal) when you first apply the throttle, that will instantly take the brakes off and then you're off. No matter how well you can generally control the clutch in a manual, you'll never get the same smooth start and occasionally you could have a very slight but still embarrassing roll-back (not to speak of the engine switching off due to letting the clutch off too early). It's funny that the other day I was noticing how quickly I set off in the vRS compared to other cars which rolled back even a little, and I was thinking, omg get a proper box people!
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#19 ardandy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 13:58

Sounds more like not using it properly than it not working.

Adapt to the car (very slight) rather than persisting on using a method which clearly doesn't work.


For me it's foot on brake, hand brake off, into D, foot off brake pedal (car stays still), and press accelerator. Couldn't be any easier. Hell even my wife likes it and she doesn't like driving let alone even know what an auto was like.
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#20 Latte

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:15

My 2010 Fab VRS DSG had perfect HHC. It showed how it should be done and is the perfect match to DSG. SWMBO loved this feature as it was flawless.

Our manual 2008 Grande Punto has HHC and its slightly flawed, it releases the brakes fractionally late, stressing the clutch.

My company 2008 Transit diesel manual has HHC and its flawless.

My new Octy DSG has imperfect HHC, it releases too early and rolls back fractionally. SWMBO wont drive it.

#21 goneoffSKi

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:03

RE,
'Hill Hold Control', the system as named by Skoda on the Fabia vRS,
not as the title of thread 'Hill start Assist'.
Even though that is what it is, a 'Hill Start Assist'.

"HHC, Hill hold control allows for a safe start by holding the brake for a small amount of time reducing the risk of unintentional reversing or rolling back."
(From Skodas description in the brochure.)

*Starting Off*,
nothing about holding the vehicle for extended times instead of driving safely and applying the hand brake when appropriate!

It sounds from what i read that people are talking about 2 different situations where Hill Hold Control are being used.

I understand when someone starts a car & drives off and worries about rolling back & likes the system.
THat is actually 'Hill Start Assist' or 'Hill Hold Control'

My concerns are not that,
it is driving the car, stopping at a junction, in particular a Pedestrian crossing, more than a full junction & Traffic lights, even though that also is a PITA in many situation with the HHC.
The car creeps forward in 'D', it does not sit still and Hold. it requires the handbrake to be put on.

The wonderful drivers that comment on 'others needing to move with the times', embrace new technology type comments, etc,
Well thats a load of sh1te IMHO.
If you like what you have and are such a superior driver to us without a clue, good for you.!

george

Edited by sk4gw, 15 May 2012 - 21:16.


#22 ardandy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:30

Why are you in D when you're meant to be stationary. I come up to a crossing/lights etc and it's neutral with hand brake, or have you forgotten your driving lessons?

It's only there to stop you rolling back when settin off or have I read what you don't like wrong?

#23 goneoffSKi

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:46

I think you have the exact point that prompted the OP.

Before HHC or HSA in autos for decades now, you can pull up momentarily and stay in D on a slope & hold on brake or a little Hand Brake and then pull away again, no dramas.

Hill Hold Control does not like that action and requires the type of action from the Driving Lesson Teaching, you got.
Safe & correct driving maybe, in a manual & an auto.
It gets its nickers in a twist if you stop on a slope, and sit in D and then HHC kicks in.
So you are sitting in an Auto on a slope, waiting for the traffic to move or the lights to change in Neutral without HHC functioning, because you are not going to shift to 'P'
This might only be for 20 or so seconds in in certain situations

Did you actually get taught your lessons in an auto & take your test in an Automatic car?

I did and was not taught that was how to do it as you describe, 'in every situation',
but then that was a very long time ago, and hundreds of different Autoboxes ago.

george

Edited by sk4gw, 15 May 2012 - 21:58.


#24 ardandy

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 23:21

This isnt a proper auto box though.

This may be way off but isn't DSG a manual box controlled automatically? As in technically different to your standard auto only?

I was also told sitting in D when stationary doesn't do the clutch(s) any good!

#25 sharkrider

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:50

sk4gw.... at a t-junction where a long wait isn't ness and you are just stopping to check traffic, simply approach in D, stop with the foot brake, (make sure the foot brake is FULLY depressed, in the DSG a slight press will not operate the HHC and will engage the clutch, then you may get problems moving away, the HHC will also not operate if the hill is not steep enough) check the road, realease the footbrake and gently press the accelerator. the DSG isn't designed to hold the car on a hill in D without touching the pedals... (adapt to its creep if you wish, when approachcng lights I know are about to change, I often just let it roll up, not touching anything, the clutch will engage in first and the car will creep, time it right and you may not have to stop...)

If you are going to wait a long time, a level crossing for example, or a set of lights you know takes a long time, put your hand brake on and select neutral. (never EVER put the handbrake on, leave it in drive and release the footbrake, this will damage your car, as the clutch will engage, but be unable to move becase of the handbrake....) then when you predict you are going to move, press the footbrake (remember FULLY, never just a little, it can detect the difference) select drive and release the handbrake (footbrake still on fully) then simply move your foot to the gas and press gently....

any other situation you are having problems with, post a description, and I will relpy. remember this is two gearboxes attached and controlled by the mechatronics runinng the clutches... it doesn't work or react just like a torque converter box.

for example we have old merc ambulances with torque converter boxes, and fiats with (single not dual clutch) auto boxes like the DSG, and we have to teach people two COMPLETLEY different ways to drive these two vehicals, as you simply cannot drive the fiat like the merc, because the gearbox isnt even remotley the same...

note; I use the vRS for teaching in, and learners use it on tests with no issues at all.

#26 goneoffSKi

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:57

Thank you for that..

Today i will drive 3 automatics.
A Suzuki Jimny & then a Kia Picanto, I will bring home my vRS.

Yesterday i drove 3 automatics, vRS, a VW Transporter towing (diesel with DSG) and a Citroen Saxo desire.

Only one of these vehicles require special attention when using the gears (the petrol one with the DSG)
& the Kia Picanto 1.1 LX has the best gearbox & response away from junctions.

I love the vRS in everyway apart from the indicator stalk on the left hand side and the HHC.
It is a PITA IMO

george

Edited by sk4gw, 16 May 2012 - 07:09.


#27 Latte

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:14

George, does this then not suggest a problem with your DSG box in the VRS?

The consensus seems to be that a lot work flawlessly but some do not.

My fab DSG box was flawless but my Octy with the same dsg7 box is difficult. The dealer is getting a chance to sort it.

#28 goneoffSKi

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:29

That could have been the thing,
I knew how it works and feels before buying into it.
(didnt stop me, even though i disliked the way it is)
i drove 2 other vRS before buying this one, (this was the best of the 3),
& a A1 demonstrator with less BHP which was fine,
& a Seat Cupra which was terrible.

I have owned a Transporter with DSG for a year, but then it is a different matter.

If people like their vRS and HHC, thats fine, the OP & thread was about someone and others that dont.
Down to Personal Preferences really.

george

#29 tonyfvrs

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:42

I had trouble getting used to hill start assist.
Some helpful guys sorted out my problems on this forum.
Just trust the system; take your foot off the brake, no handbrake, wait a few seconds for hill start to sort itself out (2 secs max) and apply a little throttle and away she goes.
You may find she will roll for a couple of inches forwards or backwards, before hill start sorts itself out and that is what was throwing me.
On a shallow slope she may start to creep, so you can then take over with throttle.
I was having trouble with reverse hill starts, but the same applies, just trust the system.
I found a slope away from traffic and practised.
Tony :happy:

#30 jonny boy

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 17:22

Jesus, there's starving people in the UK and this debate about hill hold bull is still running. FFS just do it your own way. There's no law on how it's meant to be done.