1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[pg220]

Just as an aside to the main issue but still connected, what are peoples views on these thoughts of mine.

 

The failure of the timing chain causes catastrophic damage to the engine requiring a new one, Skoda UK are well aware of this but won't take any preventative steps to avoid such failure.

 

The cost of a new engine and labour is somewhere in the region of 5K to 6K.

 

The dealer charges the customer (for arguments sake) £1000 pounds labour costs to fit new engine. The customer, in this hypothetical case, has a FDSH and is a loyal to the brand and the maintenance schedule has been kept. The warranty has expired. 

 

The customer still feels aggrieved at the £1000 labour charges and seeks redress from SUK. As they fit the SUK goodwill criteria (as above) SUK agree to pay somewhere between 50% and 70% of the labour cost. Customer sees this as SUK being jolly decent and is happy to shell out between £300 -£500 as their share of labour costs thinking they have had a right result. :clap:  

 

Customer also spreads the word that SUK are indeed jolly decent folks and stays with the brand and uses this example to highlight to others just how good Skoda are. 

 

Now, on the other hand…..

 

Skoda UK don't pay for the new engine as I understand it comes from the VAG factory and its cost is already factored in to the factories budget to cover such failures. 

 

The dealer quotes customer £1000 labour costs at going customer rate. SUK, having agreed a goodwill contribution, contact said dealer and state they are now going to be paying 50% - 70% of the labour costs and, by the way, they want it at SUK rates, not Joe public labour rates.  :$$$:

 

Said labour rate is now circa 50% cheaper to SUK, but not to customer.   

 

At conclusion of work customer pays his agreed 30% to 50% contribution at Joe public rate (£300 to £500) believing SUK to be paying the remaining £500 to £700.

 

 SUK actually pay maximum around £200 or better still sweet FA of the original £5K - £6K bill and everyone still thinks they are jolly good eggs. Now that really is a result!    

 

Could this be why they won't take any remedial or proactive preventative measures,

 

Imagine you don't have the FDSH or its the first Skoda you've owned and its out of warranty. SUK, very politely, tell you to **** off and dealer pulls your pants down. :moon:

 

Risk management at it's very best. 

[seaman]

Reading carefully the topic, the obvious question is why there is no recorded tensioner failures to the 2007-2008 BZB engine.

Are we sure that the problem arises from the timing chain tensioner?.

There are, untill now, at least 4 different  and upgrated tensioners . Why is so difficult for VAG to find a solution?

I think the malfunction is correlated with the changes to the stage 1 (10/2008) of the BZB engine, and in particular with the differentiation to the oil circulation system that uses an independent of the chains system, self - regulating oil pump in the CDAA engine. 

The system has loose the initial equilibrium and the tensioners  can not do their job.

 

Thanks for the hospitality.

 

PS. Im not  a mechanic and all above are just thoughts

Edited 9 February, 2015 by seaman

[planehazza]

My car had the tensioner fail at ~48k, and it's now on 60k. Gotta say this thread make me very nervous indeed.  I'll probably cough up and pay for a new tensioner and maybe also the belt in ~10k miles...

 

Just going back to this question. The previous owner had the tensioner fail at 48k as above, and didn't have a it repaired by Skoda - instead he went to a VAG specialist indy dealer local to him.  The tensioner was replaced and the inlet valves replaced as they were bent from the chain slipping during an attempted start up.  Should I be concerned now about any more underlying damage? This fault is really making me nervous as there's no way I could afford £1000, let alone a new, fitted engine.

Edited 10 February, 2015 by planehazza

[blackspaven]

 

Reading carefully the topic, the obvious question is why there is no recorded tensioner failures to the 2007-2008 BZB engine.

Are we sure that the problem arises from the timing chain tensioner?.

There are, untill now, at least 4 different  and upgrated tensioners . Why is so difficult for VAG to find a solution?

I think the malfunction is correlated with the changes to the stage 1 (10/2008) of the BZB engine, and in particular with the differentiation to the oil circulation system that uses an independent of the chains system, self - regulating oil pump in the CDAA engine. 

The system has loose the initial equilibrium and the tensioners  can not do their job.

 

Thanks for the hospitality.

 

PS. Im not  a mechanic and all above are just thoughts

 

 

Ooh, mine is a BZB engine, that sounds hopeful. :yes:

[m0bov]

So those with a new engine, did it include things like turbo, alternator, water pump etcc?? Did you have to run it in?

[Wardy-]

So those with a new engine, did it include things like turbo, alternator, water pump etcc?? Did you have to run it in?

 

When mine went a few months ago, i asked about this and Skoda said it's worth just not 'sprinting' it about for about 1500 miles. I didn't have any turbo, alternator or water pump changes.

 

I just took his advice

[m0bov]

Dealer confirmed today internal damage. Asked to authorize 6 hours labour should warranty not cover it.

[j600arv]

They strip the old engine and take it all over to new engine ie turbo, alternator injectors. Would have thought the water pump would be new tho. I was given 2 yrs warranty but they didn't state a mileage. Like I said befor me warranty was out and I'd only done 41k. Total cost to me was £324

[j600arv]

They strip the old engine and take it all over to new engine ie turbo, alternator injectors. Would have thought the water pump would be new tho. I was given 2 yrs warranty but they didn't state a mileage. Like I said befor me warranty was out and I'd only done 41k. Total cost to me was £324

[m0bov]

I'll make sure I get a breakdown of exactly what's been fitted and ask about contributing to get the full 2 years cover.

[blackspaven]

Can anyway elaborate on a comment earlier on on this thread? It was stated that not a single BZB engine has had this fault, but I don't know why and what the difference with this engine is to a standard 1.8/2.0 lump?

[DGW]

If you have the time and interest have a read of the following two SSPs, one for the earlier BYT/BZB engines and the other for the later 2.0TSI engine and the almost identical 1.8TSI engine.

http://vwts.ru/engine/byt/byt_bzb_1_8_tsfi_eng.pdf

http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/Misc/VW.COM_2.0L_TSI_Turbo_SSP_824803.pdf

[blackspaven]

Jesus, no that might as well be in Russian! Anyone got a layman's explanation of the difference and why it might be a good thing for me to have the BZB?

[seaman]

http://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvwts.ru%2Fengine%2Fbyt%2Fbyt_bzb_1_8_tsfi_eng.pdf&ei=x1jcVLvON4nY7Ab7m4GwBA&usg=AFQjCNHFbpXlUq2UiUBr09Df_VLwlJ2Sqg&bvm=bv.85761416,d.ZGU

 

http://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgrouptraining.avme.net%3A8080%2Fdocuments%2Flibrary%2F436WGEN%5B1%5D.pdf&ei=6lncVIH1EIfl7AayqYHwCQ&usg=AFQjCNHBrohA72d7YAauhvL9MYSdy3lRdA

[DGW]

Thank you for the second link which might well provide the information blackspaven seeks. I have added the SSP to my collection.

[pg220]

Well I've had a reply from SUK and unsurprisingly it is very non committal . They confirm that changes have been made to certain parts which is part of the ongoing development process. They confirm there have been no recalls relevant to my car and as long as the maintenance schedule has been complied with there is no further action required.

They also state that should anything happen to my vehicle SUK will consider the position of goodwill as I have a FDSH and brand loyalty.

 

In order to ease my paranoia I had the head technician at the dealership listen to the engine and in his view it is perfectly normal and there is no cause for concern. He stated the slight noise I was referring to is the odd second or so it takes for the oil pressure to normalise. He stated if the rattling went on beyond a few seconds it should be looked at.

 

I suppose I can sleep again well as like many things in life there is no point worrying about something that might never happen!

[m0bov]

Have a look at my you tube vid a few posts back.

[blackspaven]

Just wondering if more/most people got the few seconds warning noise or did theirs just go bang with absolutely no warning at all? Just thinking it might be a telltale sign now that you can hear it based on mobov's video.

 

Sorry guys, appreciate the effort, but posting links to stuff that is well above my technical capabilities isn't helping me understand WHAT or why the difference is between the bzb and whatever has followed it. Can anyone actually explain very vaguely why the premise that a certain difference in the engines could make a huge difference to the reliability? Too much info in the links and I can't tell what I'm supposed to be reading.

[m0bov]

If you are getting a metalic rattle for the first 0.5 seconds of start up from cold, then the engine WILL eat itself, I had no warning other than the rattle for a few weeks., When it did let go, there was a horrid thud from the engine and loud knocking. Just waiting to confirm I will be getting a replacement engine.

[Matt Pez]

If you are getting a metalic rattle for the first 0.5 seconds of start up from cold, then the engine WILL eat itself...

 

0.5 secs!...or do you mean 5 secs?

[m0bov]

half second

[Matt Pez]

Blimey, got to have a keen ear then!

[j600arv]

Trust me it gets louder the longer you leave it. Mine runs like a dream now. Only done 500 miles since new engine as been fitted and I'm letting engine run in proper before I start giving it some right foot

[Stace2]

Gents,

Anyone know of a new part number for the 2.0 litre tfsi timing chain tensioner that doesn't fail?

Seriously considering changing mine of a 59 plate VRS

Chris S

[briskycat]

See this post.