Extended warranty - recommendations, please

[oldstan]

That's interesting...and very thorough of you.  And your dialogue is concise and the summary of it here is clearly explained.

 

As it happens, the DSG on my 1.2 Yeti is the prime reason for taking out CSMA / CCP cover @ £144 (now £149) now that it's out of the 3 yr warranty.  And as it happens it has had a new clutch pack due to judder, fitted under warranty. And as it happens I also rang them and asked the same question. But I didn't go to the extra lengths that you have regarding pointing out that it's an acknowledged problem and has (hopefully) been rectified with the new clutch pack.  When I called the advisor (an ex mechanic) seemed to understand well enough that I was querying that the DSG box and it's ancillaries were the item I was seeking confirmation of cover for and, at that time, confirmed that it was...hence my relative confidence that I would be covered.

 

It may have been thought that there is (or, in the light of the above post, and now more correctly - was)  a bit of a dichotomy here regarding whether to simply take the cover and ask, in general terms, as I did, whether it would be covered....versus pointing out to them the fact that it's an acknowledged problem and specifically asking if they would exclude it on the basis of it being so....and thus highlighting the facts and ensuring that they now have it on record etc etc.  However what is done is done.

 

The debacle at WD regarding the wet clutch is regrettable - but hardly surprising.  Just reflect on the confusion that reigned with the winter tyre issue and insurance companies taking varying stances upon them.

 

But, as I said, interesting enough.  And I now live in hope - particularly that another new clutch pack isn't the subject of a claim in the foreseeable future and that your converstation with them hasn't cost me the price of a new clutch pack.  Maybe it might have been sufficient to ask "Am I covered for this...?"  and having been given an answer to an honest question, left it at that, rather than offer a set of circumstances to them inviting a cause for rejection that may never have been there in the first place?  I now have the policy that has a question mark over it...and you are still considering whether to take one out.  I'm not sure whether to be thankful to you for such an in depth investigation...or not.  I think, on balance - not.

Edited 14 August, 2014 by oldstan

[nawd2]

Oldstan,

 

I certainly hope that I have not caused any problem for yourself or anyone else with this insurance. I don't know how phone conversations stand in law, but you have been told that you are covered, so you might be able to argue that should there be any further problem with the clutch packs, then that forms part of the agreement that you made with the company. I guess the problem would be that unless they recorded the call and kept it, then there is no evidence of the conversation, and it is unlikely that the person you spoke to would be able to remember the conversation. I would also think that given that both you and I have got the redesigned clutch pack, then the policy exclusion relating to design faults (No. 12 on page 20 of the current booklet) would not apply anyway. I think it has been reported before on this forum that current models have the redesigned pack as standard anyway, so this should not apply to them. There is of course some ambiguity in the policy, because although the gearbox section seems to include everything, the clutch section excludes worn/burnt out parts. Although the person you spoke to seemed familiar with the DSG and thought that you were OK, come any claim, the claim assessor (who might be someone different) might argue that this is an automated manual box (as per the dialogue with WD), and therefore worn clutch packs are not covered. I see that the the policy also has a general exclusion for wear and tear, which the WD policy does at least cover.

 

When talking to the chap at CSMA, I wasn't looking to cause problems when I mentioned the known issue with the clutch packs, however he was curious as to why I was specifically asking questions about the cover. In any case, I have previous experience of having difficulty getting a claim accepted by a highly recommended warranty provider, even though there was nothing in the policy booklet that could exclude the claim as fra as I could see. In the end I had to write to the MD, and they paid out (as a gesture of goodwill, as they were still ambivalent as to whether the policy did cover the claim). I can see that if there is a clause in the policy that could be an exclusion, then they will most likely use it (that is what claim assesors are paid for isn't it?).

 

Given my previous experience, I felt that it was important to be quite clear about cover, but perhaps I am just being naive! However, if problems with the clutch pack are common, then I would have thought that claims asessors would be aware of this anyway. It does however raise an interesting issue - the CSMA policy excludes design faults, but in order to apply that clause I would think that they would need to have evidence. If Skoda UK acknowledged that there was a design fault, then that would be evidence - but then I would think that Skoda ought to announce a recall to fix all the DSGs with the faulty design!

 

As I say, I really hope that I have not caused anyone a problem, but I do think that it is important for folks to know that there is a risk that any policy they buy might not pay out if they have a problem with the DSG (dry) clutch packs - or at the very least that they may have to fight to get a payout.

[nawd2]

I have just spoken to someone regarding the Skoda (Car Care Plan) extended warranty (not the one that you take out when purchasing the car). He said that that policy does cover the DSG clutch packs. The policy excludes "Renewal of any clutch components due to incorrect adjustment, misuse or wear and tear", but they would consider the juddering that I had to be a mechanical fault and not wear and tear. Slipping of the clutch at high mileage would NOT be covered. He said that if it was a manual gearbox, then they would not consider wear and tear as the cause until after about 80,000 miles - before that they would consider it to be premature wear. I guess with a manual box you could wreck clutches sooner than that with poor driving style, but the DSG eliminates that (assuming you don't do silly things with it!). He was not able to send an email to confirm what he had said over the phone.

[oldstan]

All noted.

[philbes]

To bring this thread up-to-date.  I have just spoken to Skoda Customer Services regarding an extended warranty for my March 2012 vRS CR DSG which will be out of the original Skoda 3-year warranty in a week's time.  So far only problem with the car has been two rear wiper motors replaced under warranty.

 

Skoda Customer  told me that the "Skoda approved" extended warranty via Car Care Plan would cost £349 for a year with an extra £50 for breakdown cover so a total of £399.  Also told me I cannot buy direct from Skoda but only direct from Car Care Plan or via a Skoda dealer.  Skoda transferred my phone call to Car Care Plan who would not email details of their warranty and said it would take up to 10 days before details arrived by post.

 

I phoned the nearest dealer, Blade Skoda in Gloucester, and they quoted a price of £399 + £50 for breakdown cover so £50 higher than stated by Skoda and would not reduce.  Also quoted £699 for 2 years + £100 to add breakdown cover.  They had no idea who actually supplied the warranty just kept repeating "It's Skoda approved".

 

I am tempted to just take the chance and not take out an extended warranty.  My last car (March 2005 Honda Civic 2-litre petrol) cost me less than £350 in repairs up to when I sold it in June 2013.   However, I am nervous regarding the Skoda's DSG if I keep the car long term - probably another 3 years at least.

[Frenchtone]

Try warranty direct their policy seems very competitive and comprehensive

[Llanigraham]

Or ring another dealer!

[nawd2]

If you do try Warranty Direct then it would be interesting to know what you are told about DSG cover. I had further dialogue with WD after my posts above, and despite what I had been told on the phone when taking out the original cover, they insist that they will not cover the clutch plates if the problem recurred. Despite also being told that they would cover the wet clutch variant, they are now clear that they would not cover wet clutch either. They do cover the mechatronics unit. I decided not to extend my cover with them. My DSG has now done over 30,000 miles on the replacement clutch plates and is OK thus far - I hope that it continues this way for many miles yet!

 

You need to be absolutely clear about what is and is not covered, as they will be meticulous when deciding whether you are covered. If you want cover for the DSG clutches then don't believe any company that won't put it in writing (or email) for you. In fact, don't believe anything that a salesman says on the phone unless he will confirm it in writing, or it is absolutely clear in the policy, with no possible ambiguity.

 

I too am nervous about the reliability of the DSG, but decided that at £1200 to repair (at an independant garage), I would take the risk. I like to keep cars a long time to minimise the effect of depreciation, and I thought it would cost me more to change the car to eliminate the risk than it would cost to fix the problem if it recurred.

[DGW]

Try Vindis Skoda in Cambridge and Progress Skoda in Letchworth for quotes. See my post #43 above for the prices I was quoted by a range of dealers.

[philbes]

I will take the advise given and phone a few other dealers.  I also want a copy of the cover so that I can check exactly what is stated regarding DSG.  I would have thought that the Skoda Approved (Car Care Plan) cover would be detailed somewhere on the internet but can't find it.

[DGW]

A copy of that warranty is below. The clutch is on the list of parts not covered.

https://skoda-approvedextendedwarranty-invited.motor-admin.com/documents/skoda/policy-document.pdf

Edited 24 February, 2015 by DGW

[philbes]

A copy of that warranty is below. The clutch is on the list of parts not covered.

https://skoda-approvedextendedwarranty-invited.motor-admin.com/documents/skoda/policy-document.pdf

Thanks for that, although I discovered I had a copy saved on my computer.  I don't remember downloading that!

 

The only mention of 'clutch' is under WHAT IS NOT COVERED and says, "Renewal of any clutch components due to incorrect adjustment, misuse or wear and tear".  There is no mention at all of automatic transmissions.  I can see that a fight would probably be necessary to counter the  'wear and tear' excuse being used for any DSG failure.

 

Has anyone any experience of claiming for a DSG fault under the Skoda Extended (Car Care Plan) warranty?

 

I will probably have the car for another 3 years so until a total of around 55-60K miles.  I think I will save the £1000 the extended warranty would cost over 3 years and trust to the reliability of the VAG DSG - or do I mean 'trust to luck'!

 

It's a pity that Honda don't market a car that meets my needs as my last Honda was absolutely reliable over the 6 year  period I owned it from 2 to 8 years old with only one fault requiring £350 expenditure.  If I had taken out extended warranty (I didn't) it would have cost me almost £2,000 for the period of ownership.  At each yearly service at a Honda dealer I was given free 12 month Europe-wide breakdown cover FOC.

[DadWagon]

My car is in today for service and MOT. I have asked them to check the K2 clutch issue which is intermittent on my DSG7. I have the Skoda branded extended warranty bought via the dealer (2 years at £599 without breakdown if I remember correctly). Will report back tomorrow!

[DadWagon]

I should say that in raising the issue, service noted that I had the warranty and felt confident that if they could replicate/identify the issue it would be covered.

[DadWagon]

Right....pretty shocking news to report.

 

I have just had a call from the service department. Although the computer diagnostics came up with nothing, they got a few technicians in the car (the issue appears when the family are all in the car) and they replicated the fault.

 

Service called Skoda (branded) Warranty who refused to pay out at all because there is a TPI number saying it is a design fault! Service then called the factory who said that the best they can do is 100% discount on parts and I would have to cover labour (to the tune of £540). Utterly reprehensible.

 

When I purchased the warranty (from the dealer) I explained that I wanted it due to my concern over the DSG. I was told that would be covered. I think I was told that in good faith based on the fact there was no recall and therefore no condition in the warranty detail under which such an issue was excluded.  

 

I have told my dealer that either it a design fault which is subject to recall (in which I and many others need Skoda to pay) or it isn't (in which Skoda Warranty must pay). They are calling Skoda Customer Services on my behalf. I have explained that I am not the only one who will be concerned about this and that I will take legal and/or media action if necessary. 

 

We need to sort this out once and for all.

[oldstan]

I wasn't gonna get drawn into this as I have done in the past (probably in this very thread) and didn't think I had anything more to add.

 

Having NOT bought the extra warranty when new, I bought the £150 cover from Car Care Plan via CSMA.  I rang them to ask if the DSG  (and the clutch-pack in particular) would be covered and was told yes. Clearly that was over the phone and clearly it stood for nothing in the event of a claim.

 

Subsequent postings here had suggested that I and they might be wide of the mark.  I'm reluctant to ring and ask them again.

 

But the above post by DW is disconcerting and I hope he returns with more positive news.

 

If it turns out o be otherwise it'll be a salutary lesson to some of us with DSG boxes.

Edited 24 February, 2015 by oldstan

[oldstan]

One quick question...what does K2 refer to?

[DadWagon]

 

I've not had the issue as I can't afford such a car, but I've fixed a good few of them.

 

The problem lies with the clutch packs, there is a Technical Product Information item on them that dealers can see by checking.

I think the correct title of it is "vibration from the K2 clutch" or something along those lines.

I'd get it back to your dealer and ask them about it as it's covered under warranty. If I remember I can get the exact TPI number to give you more ammo to go at them with but it really shouldnt be required.

 

[DadWagon]

 

Wasn't able to get the TPI number while I was in hospital.

On the system they want to be looking for "Vibrations of the K2 clutch" The TPI number is 2028367

 

[DadWagon]

Just for completeness / reference, there are now a few threads on here on the same issue.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/317423-dsg-recall-sorryservice-campaign/

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/226429-vibrations-in-2nd-gear-dsg-7/

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/295041-vw-17-million-recall-7-speed-dsg/page-3#entry4145638

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/344457-dsg-shudder/#entry4141111

[oldstan]

All noted

 

(but still don't know what K2 means)

[DadWagon]

No, neither do I!

[DadWagon]

Perhaps distinct from K1 in a dual clutch gearbox

[DadWagon]

Update

 

All sorted. The dealership contacted Skoda Customer Services on my behalf. Customer services said that because the factory had offered 100% discount on the parts (which apparently is very rare) they will cover 100% of the labour. So essentially, one part of Skoda (the manufacturer) has admitted a design fault in the part and another is therefore covering the rest of the costs to customer. From what the dealer said, customer services will always do this where the factory covers 100% of the part.

 

My description of the fault (which is the same as everyone elses on the threads above) matches the description in the TPI. There are new part numbers for the replacement part indicating the issue has been solved with a new design.

 

Interestingly, I discovered that the TPI applies only to cars manufactured up to 31/05/2011. Presumably the newer parts were fitted from this date.

 

Hats off to Matt at Beadles Skoda Maidstone who handled a very difficult situation brilliantly.

 

I remain concerned that lots of other people will have to go through the same experience and also that people are buying warranties for the wrong reasons. Had I known what I know now, I would have self-insured rather than forking out £600. 

[oldstan]

Good work and well done for your perseverance.  Great result after an unnecessarily drawn out procedure.  Shame you had to work that hard to get the car fixed when it is/was readily apparent there was a fault that needed fixing  because of a known problem.  No-one minds too much when problems occur....it's inevitable  - it's the way they're dealt with that counts.

 

Tomorrow I am due to receive a call from the person who deals with warranty issues at my supplying dealer.  I will ask about the issue in the knowledge that I've had a new clutch pack under warranty, but seeking to find out where I and others would stand if it failed again and where I stand with Car Care Plan re. their £150 a year warranty (see much further back up the thread) and where purchasers of extended warranty direct from the supplying dealer will stand in future years.

Edited 24 February, 2015 by oldstan