Warning on Spark Plugs 1.4 TSI CAVE VRS, (& CTHE)'check the spark plugs!'

[Rooted]

chappers777,

 did the Skoda Dealership replace and pay for them because they replaced them (fitted them) in the first place, 

or was it Skoda UK on a car no longer under the Original Manufacturers Warranty that paid under a claim from the Dealership?

Different things there.

[fabdavrav]

What is it with VAG & 1.4 engines?

 

My old Fabia had the 1.4 16v AUB (100bhp), & those are supposed to throw the piston rings etc, & then these all the problems with these twinchargers!

 

However I see a bit of common ground if I read this thread correctly.

 

Mine stated in the sales brochure & on the filler cap 98RON, so it got Shell vpower/optimax/nitro only. It had regular oil/filter changes (10k/or year) & Mobil 1, & I fitted NGK iridium spark plugs & changed at 20k (NGK said the service is about half standard plugs to be safe).

 

My car was driven, well right upto the red line, never thrashed when cold, just properly used. Never had any problems with the engine, oil/smoke etc etc. because I did more than the basic servicing & ran it properly.

 

Twincharger engines

Now it appears some people are still having problems even after the fixes & some never have any problems. I wonder if driving style, eg town driving mainly compared to country driving, affects the engines here too? Those gummed up plugs look like the engine doesn't get good full use every so often! Maybe why "Sharkrider" has no problems with his?

 

Can't beat the old "Italian tune".............

[chappers777]

Dealership under the 24 months warranty on all serviced parts. Skoda UK did ring the dealership to chase up as the dealership can only assume it went out the exhaust they didnt look for the tip

[Rooted]

fabrabdav,

But sharkrider did have problem with his on his second vRS Twincharger a standard 2013 CTHE 1.4 TSI 180 ps.

 

The Spark Plugs were changed under Warranty at under the Service Schedule / Guideline mileage because of an issue with them.

ie, Early Demise of 1 plug.

[fabdavrav]

fabrabdav,

But sharkrider did have problem with his on his second vRS Twincharger a standard 2013 CTHE 1.4 TSI 180 ps.

 

The Spark Plugs were changed under Warranty at under the Service Schedule / Guideline mileage because of an issue with them.

ie, Early Demise of 1 plug.

 

My bad for trying to speed read..........

[vxh26]

<snip>

Now it appears some people are still having problems even after the fixes & some never have any problems. I wonder if driving style, eg town driving mainly compared to country driving, affects the engines here too?

<snip>

I believe that you may make a very good point here. Unfortunately, neither we or Skoda / VAG have any way of knowing exactly how cars with failed engines have been driven.

 

I suspect that because the vRS is what is often described as a "Hot Hatch", some owners are in the habit of getting in the car, starting the engine and red-lining it all the way to and back from Tescos to buy a pack of fags and some extra strength cider without ever giving it a chance to get up to operating temperature.

 

Some people have even bizarrely suggested that there is no point in running in the vRS, although I understand that Skoda make quite clear in the Owner's Manual that it should be run in.

 

Admiral Insurance offer the option of installing a "Black Box" in your car to monitors your driving style in order to assess how much of a risk you are as a driver. I have often wondered whether this sort of technology could be incorporated in the ECU?  This might help manufacturers to better understand how problems arise and thus how to correct and prevent them  in the future.

[Jabozuma]

*runs to the car to buy a pack of fags and a bottle white lightning with a cast iron intent of redlining my vRS even in reverse*

 

EDIT: *thinks black box would go well with my ankle tag, gotta keep up the chav central massive, yo!*

[Rooted]

Is that a royal 'we',

or just 'thee' that does not know how they were driven?

 More like 'Wee' as in p!ss.

 

The Owner / Drivers know how they drive their cars, and there have been plenty of Briskoda Members that have had ones since 

2010, some have had more than 1.

[brad1.8T]

In 2015 i don't believe people should have to drive "a certain way" just so their engines don't experience catastrophic failure.  There's nothing in the manual that says you should ring the vehicles neck to redline & nothing that says you should potter about like old mate up the road.

 

The vehicle is supposed to be a mass produced, semi-sporty shopping trolley.  It's not a hand built Ferrari with specifications on the bleeding edge of performance.

 

The fact is that VW got the basic design & the tune of this engine wrong.  

The rings (especially the oil ring) don't seal properly due to lack of ring tension.

The pistons can't handle heat & pre-ignition.

The design of the head, block & cooling system have some terrible hot spots in them

The oil squirters were wrongly specced.

The PCV system doesn't work properly.

The tune is ridiculously lean, especially when the engine is cold.

 

Is it any wonder they've dropped it from the range.

[vxh26]

In 2015 I don't believe people should have to drive "a certain way" just so their engines don't experience catastrophic failure.

<snip>

The vehicle is supposed to be a mass produced, semi-sporty shopping trolley.  It's not a hand built Ferrari with specifications on the bleeding edge of performance.

<snip>

The tune is ridiculously lean, especially when the engine is cold.

 

Perhaps the perception that engineering limits no longer apply in the 21st century is the problem?

 

However, you are quite right, VW appear to have managed to produce an engine that is not sufficiently bullet proof to be reliable in the hands of some of the people who abuse it - I suspect that they will not repeat the mistake for a while

Edited 11 May, 2015 by vxh26

[andy3270]

I am not quite sure of your description of "abuse" these car have the oil temp on the display and most resonsible owners will check the oil has warmed up before using the car to its potential . If you regulary thrash any cold engine you are asking for trouble . I think owners of sports cars buy them for their own reasons and understand they may not get the best fuel economy , purchase price or cheap insurance but that's what makes this car superb in many ways relatively cheap to buy and insure and fuel efficient .Yes you have to check oil regulary and and put decent fuel in it but small price to pay in my mind for so much fun.

[brad1.8T]

Perhaps the perception that engineering limits no longer apply in the 21st century is the problem?

 

However, you are quite right, VW appear to have managed to produce an engine that is not sufficiently bullet proof to be reliable in the hands of some of the people who abuse it - I suspect that they will not repeat the mistake for a while

 

I know quite a few people that have the 1.4 twincharger & had issues ranging from excessive oil consumption (really, is 0.5L/1000km really acceptable in a modern engine?) to total engine failure.  I wouldn't describe any of them as "abusers".  They don't drive their cars any different to their previous vehicles which include other VWs, Mazda, Kia, Proton, Subaru etc.  I have friends with Citroens that have had a better run.

 

In the pursuit of fuel economy VW have stuffed up.  My 1.8tsi Octavia has had more chemical inlet cleans than any other car I've owned - it's like owning a Morris Minor and having to do a de-coke every 2 years.

 

Have you actually put a gas meter up the exhaust of one of these vehicles & looked at the readings?  Have you checked out the heat map of the head?

 

Even this thread is damming - having to replace spark plugs designed for 100,000km change intervals every 16,000km in a vain attempt to stop the pistons from melting.  What a joke.

[rawcpoppa]

In 2015 i don't believe people should have to drive "a certain way" just so their engines don't experience catastrophic failure. There's nothing in the manual that says you should ring the vehicles neck to redline & nothing that says you should potter about like old mate up the road.

The vehicle is supposed to be a mass produced, semi-sporty shopping trolley. It's not a hand built Ferrari with specifications on the bleeding edge of performance.

The fact is that VW got the basic design & the tune of this engine wrong.

The rings (especially the oil ring) don't seal properly due to lack of ring tension.

The pistons can't handle heat & pre-ignition.

The design of the head, block & cooling system have some terrible hot spots in them

The oil squirters were wrongly specced.

The PCV system doesn't work properly.

The tune is ridiculously lean, especially when the engine is cold.

Is it any wonder they've dropped it from the range.

Dropped from the range but not for long. VW just announced a 1.0 tsi making 272 ps!!!!!!

I kid you not. Turbocharger and electronic supercharger. Long live the twincharger!!!!

Edited 12 May, 2015 by rawcpoppa

[vxh26]

VW just announced a 1.0 tsi making 272 ps!

LINK

 

 

<snip>

In the pursuit of fuel economy VW have stuffed up.  My 1.8tsi Octavia has had more chemical inlet cleans than any other car I've owned - it's like owning a Morris Minor and having to do a de-coke every 2 years.

 

Have you actually put a gas meter up the exhaust of one of these vehicles & looked at the readings?  Have you checked out the heat map of the head?

 

Even this thread is damming - having to replace spark plugs designed for 100,000km change intervals every 16,000km in a vain attempt to stop the pistons from melting.  What a joke.

Some interesting observations . . .

 

Are you suggesting that the problem is JUST down to the engine running lean? Surely that would be easy enough to fix with an ECU change?

 

What has indicated to you that the use of a "chemical inlet cleaner" was required? I thought that these had gone out of fashion years ago?

 

What have you observed when you have "put a gas meter up the exhaust pipe and looked at the readings"?

 

Surely this "coking up" problem is all down to lots of short journeys where the car is "running rich" and never gets to reach the optimum temperature?

Edited 12 May, 2015 by vxh26

[rawcpoppa]

Anyone researching wossner forged Pistons?

[Rooted]

This thread was about a warning on checking your spark plugs before the VW / Skoda recommended 40,000 mile Service Schedule Period.

 

For a thread on the Fundamental Design and component and manufacturing issues there is lots of information here.

Not many with an engine running well when using good Fuel & Fluids and consumables are going to remove and strip the engine 

and rebuild with uprated internals just as a preemtive measure.

VW might pay for the Breather pipe / valve, Spark Plugs, Oil Spray Jets & Software Updates where there are the symptoms of a failing 

engine.

So ask them, because just this week i know of yet another Extended Warranty Provider of a Used Car Warranty from a Main VWG Dealer 

refusing to cover engine failure, 'Because the engines have a known fault'.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/332579-interesting-guide-about-14tsi-fundamental-design-problems

Edited 12 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[brad1.8T]

gone-offski - apologies for dragging your thread off track.  I can't help but comment when people post information that hasn't been researched properly.
 

Dropped from the range but not for long. VW just announced a 1.0 tsi making 272 ps!!!!!!

I kid you not. Turbocharger and electronic supercharger. Long live the twincharger!!!!

 
It's not the same block and not the same head, pistons etc.  You may as well say that a Shire horse is the same as a Pinto.
 
The fact is that the EA111 based twincharger engine has been a bit of a disaster.  Even if statistically it is reliable, peoples perception is that is a piece of junk.  Perception is reality.
 

LINK
 
 
Some interesting observations . . .
 
1) Are you suggesting that the problem is JUST down to the engine running lean? Surely that would be easy enough to fix with an ECU change?
 
2) What has indicated to you that the use of a "chemical inlet cleaner" was required? I thought that these had gone out of fashion years ago?
 
3) What have you observed when you have "put a gas meter up the exhaust pipe and looked at the readings"?
 
4) Surely this "coking up" problem is all down to lots of short journeys where the car is "running rich" and never gets to reach the optimum temperature?

 
1) No I'm not.  That's why i mention the heat map of the engine.  It has hot spots.  I listed many (not all) of the issues if you care to revisit my previous post.  VW have tried an ECU update & it didn't work.
 
2) Endoscope into the inlet.  Chemical cleans are coming back into fashion thanks to Direct injection.  Vw aren't the only company to have these issues.  Note VWs admission of the issue with the inclusion of a 2nd rack of injectors on the inlet manifold of the MK7 GTI.  This isn't done for power or driveability or economy.
 
3) As i said before - extremely lean mixtures.
 
4) My car is used for my daily commute.  I get in and drive 45km  - usually in 35-40minutes.  The engine works under ideal conditions and is well maintained and in excellent condition.  I've had UOA done and I get beautiful numbers.  I've recently started running a Forge catch can to reduce inlet contamination.  Here is 6000km of inlet offerings that would otherwise cook on the inlet & inlet valves. It's a 500ml jar.


I won't make any more comments about this as it is contaminating the OPs thread. I also think that you haven't acquainted yourself with the issues which have been well documented elsewhere. If you think these are good engines & the owners are at fault then you are delusional.

Edited 13 May, 2015 by brad1.8T

[sharkrider]

just for fun, I'd like to note, I had a CAVE 1.4 twincharger for 50k , with TMC box for most of that time....

 

I now have have a CTHE twincharger, its got 44k on it......

 

I cane it to death, as often as I can , as I like to enjoy my "hot hatch"  (as I did the CAVE car) .... it spent last weekend on the wales drive, the weekend before at how the how fast competition, the weekend before that at castle coombe, next weekend it will be at santa pod... it will do the whole day on track at the national meet....... and we are back at the nurburgring (again) in september.....

 

 

I will try to get some more "abuse" in if i can afford it

 

by the way way ... I accelerate hard from cold too..... and didnt "run in" either engine......

 

yes, I change the plugs every 10k (and am searching for some that will work better in the engine than VW's) and it uses a litre of oil every 7,000 miles at this point in time...

 

BUT....

 

you know what ?

 

its FINE.

 

 

 

[DDave]

Where can I buy the correct ;plugs for my 2011 Vrs from. You guys are stating to use NGK BKR 7EIX plugs, Eurocar Parts lists NGK 5758. Which is the correct plug? I can't see any obvious reference to BKR 7EIX. Useful assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[sharkrider]

The 7's are the ones you want BRKR7EIX2667

 

can run the temps better, and are "shorter" so miss the fuel spray........

 

mine have been brilliant so far, if they fail early, I will try the denso's that George likes next

[DDave]

Brilliant rider...........can you answer my question?

[Rooted]

Welcome to the forum.  

Sorry this does not answer your question either.

 

If you want the latest Spark Plugs that VW / Skoda /Seat / Audi spec for the 1.4TSI Twincharger the number is

03c905601B

they are the SIZFR6B8EG  part no. /  NGK 96290 stock no.

You will get them from a VW / Skoda / Seat / Audi  Parts desk or from a Motor Factor hopefully.

 

Personally i would go with the DENSO Plugs.  SKJ20CR-A8#4  3371

Edited 13 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[sharkrider]

Brilliant rider...........can you answer my question?

 

type the number into eBay mate, it will come up, that's where i bought mine

Welcome to the forum.  

Sorry this does not answer your question either.

 

If you want the latest Spark Plugs that VW / Skoda /Seat / Audi spec for the 1.4TSI Twincharger the number is

03c905601B

they are the SIZFR6B8EG  part no. /  NGK 96290 stock no.

You will get them from a VW / Skoda / Seat / Audi  Parts desk or from a Motor Factor hopefully.

 

Personally i would go with the DENSO Plugs.  SKJ20CR-A8#4  3371

or the denso's, george i a tech so his opinion is valid... like I said, if the 7's don't cut it, I will be trying the denso's next

[brad1.8T]

Where can I buy the correct ;plugs for my 2011 Vrs from. You guys are stating to use NGK BKR 7EIX plugs, Eurocar Parts lists NGK 5758. Which is the correct plug? I can't see any obvious reference to BKR 7EIX. Useful assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I buy my plugs off ebay.

 

Use the NGK part finder to get the latest spark plug type or ring NGK tech dept direct.

Edited 14 May, 2015 by brad1.8T

[Rooted]

Best not buy on EBAY unless you know they are coming from a trusted Seller.

You can maybe buy Mail Order.

http://awesomegti.com

http://opieoils.co.uk

http://eurocarparts.com

Demon Tweaks or the likes.

 

There are counterfeit Spark Plugs and consumables being sold around the world,

unless you are in the middle of nowhere you are as well to collect your Spark Plugs across a counter, and have comeback if the plugs 

are not right.

Edited 14 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi