Warning on Spark Plugs 1.4 TSI CAVE VRS, (& CTHE)'check the spark plugs!'

[SuperTurbo]

 

Just a quick input from me. Car ran from 0-11k miles on the standard plugs until i had my first misfire issue. All 4 were replaced under warranty and the car was fine.

 

At 15k miles I thought I'd change to the NGK BKR7EIX's, they were also fine, engine ran as it should. Yet at just over 20k miles I had the same misfire issue. All 4 plugs replaced again under warranty.

 

Now changing plugs every 10k i could live with, but the NGK's only lasted me 5k miles. I now feel like I'm just waiting for the next time its going to happen which is really getting to me.

 

I love the car, I don't want to change it for anything else, so accepting these issues and looking towards a solution. What can be changed or modified to help stop the plugs going after such short periods of time? Uprated coil packs, new free flowing exhaust? Tubular exhaust manifold (all to help get the hot gases away more efficiently). Revised inlet manifold?, Relocation of breathers from the intake system that could cause biased intake of air?

[Brian69]

Car did 22,630 on the original plugs with no problems - replaced 15/10/15 when four years old as part of dealer service (have done 2,100 miles on the new plugs since then).

[sharkrider]

 

 

Just a quick input from me. Car ran from 0-11k miles on the standard plugs until i had my first misfire issue. All 4 were replaced under warranty and the car was fine.

 

At 15k miles I thought I'd change to the NGK BKR7EIX's, they were also fine, engine ran as it should. Yet at just over 20k miles I had the same misfire issue. All 4 plugs replaced again under warranty.

 

Now changing plugs every 10k i could live with, but the NGK's only lasted me 5k miles. I now feel like I'm just waiting for the next time its going to happen which is really getting to me.

 

I love the car, I don't want to change it for anything else, so accepting these issues and looking towards a solution. What can be changed or modified to help stop the plugs going after such short periods of time? Uprated coil packs, new free flowing exhaust? Tubular exhaust manifold (all to help get the hot gases away more efficiently). Revised inlet manifold?, Relocation of breathers from the intake system that could cause biased intake of air?

 

you could try the denso ones George recomends?

[SuperTurbo]

 

Yeah that'd definitely be the next thing I try but I'm more looking toward a mechanical solution. Where is the weakness that causes the plugs to last such a short time (4 sets in 20k miles) and what can i do to help prevent it. Its clear Skoda are happy to just keep changing plugs, IE fixing the outcome rather than addressing the real issue.

[DDave]

I miss Tweekies Goneoffski as I used to live not too far from them. Have actually booked it into Skoda, Citygate in Watford to have them replaced on Wednesday, they asked me why I wanted them replacing, I replied  because its misfiring. They are running a diagnostic first apparently. £104 a lot of money but if something goes wrong, I have a skoda receipt for it. I've had the car since February was 31k miles now 34.5k (I drive 250 miles a week to work round the M25). I love it but I  think it's got to go, the fact I've already put a litre of oil in it, the gearbox has had a couple of major lurches in the last 2 weeks and reading the horror stories I'm losing confidence rapidly.  Sadly due to a bike accident 25 years ago means I need an auto and I can see a late mk2 focus Tdci sitting on the drive at this rate (we've got a cmax its brill).   

[Rooted]

Due to a Motorbike accident 38 years ago i also need an Automatic.

 

As to the DSG,

Has the car had the 'Free' Service Campaign carried out, changing the DSG OIl from Synthetic to Mineral, and Updating the Software on the ECU.

If not have the Dealer Check if required and arrange to carry out the work.

If your care is under warranty, the Dealer can carry out the Diagnostics on the DSG and the Misfire at Skoda & the Warranty Providers expense.

 

You do need to pay to have the spark plugs changed during a Service or requestion the Spark Plug Change.

But,

That does not mean if 1 Spark Plug is failing such as in cylinder 3, that you make full payment.

If the PLug is failing prematurely VW / Skoda know why.

 

Have the Dealer make a Warranty Claim to Skoda,  raise a case with Skoda,

Ask Skoda Customer Services to be sure your vehicle is running the latest Software, Engine and DSG and 

that their recommended latest Spark Plugs are in the car.

 

A valid Warranty should reduce or mitigate any worry,

The issues are 'Know',  Fundamental Design/ Manufacturing/ Component Choice / & Quality Control Issues.

Require Skoda / VW to make your car of Merchantable Quality and Fit for Purpose.

ie Driving to work in the UK.

 

If your car needs a New Mechatronics Control Unit, Clutch Packs, or Spark Plugs because they fitted sub standard ones 

for the 1.4 TSI Twincharger 132km engine, 

thats for Skoda UK to sort out.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign

Part of the issue not only 2009-2011, ongoing, CAVE & CTHE Cars can need the Field Action.

 

all the best.

george

 

PS

The Oil Consumption Test will require Skoda UK to pay for it,

Excessive Oil Consumption & later Engine Failure is quite common & Skoda UK / CZ / VW know the issue 

as do Franchised Dealers.

Best call Skoda UK Customer Services on Monday.

Raise a case, get a Case Number & a Handler and have them Arrange and Agree an Official Oil Consumption 

Test, at their Expense.

Oil & Filter Changed, weighed, Dipstick / Filler cap Sealed, you drive the car for at least 600 miles,

they drop and weigh the oil.

They hope it uses what equates to less than 0.5 litres 1000km (621 miles)

the result often shows it as 0.3 litres per 1000 km, so within tolerance they say.

But as Technicians and Skoda / VW know, that is not an accurate test or indication 

of use other than as that 1000 km test was done.

The engine if even using 0.3 litres in 621 miles need Field Actions to make it fit for purpose.

ie, driving to work.

Edited 17 May, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Rooted]

Maybe someone could look at doing a Sticky / Pinned Post on the Spark Plugs for the Fabia Mk2 1.4 TSI CAVE / CTHE Twinchargers.

 

There are members and none members still having issues with Spark Plugs failing, and getting mis-information at Skoda Franchised Dealerships & from Service Desks & Workshops.

 

The Manufacturers Service Schedule / Guidelines on the Spark Plugs is a very long time and there are instances of the failure 

of 1 spark plug which can really cause problems and expense to the cars owner / driver.

 

It is pretty basic stuff on the Spark Plugs and OBD Codes and Misfires and Codes not Logged but 1 Spark Plug still actually failing.

Visual Inspection of all 4 Spark Plugs being very important, and replacement.

Not blaming a Ignition Coil, going right to Cylinder Compression Tests etc.

Owners are paying out often for un-necessary tests and diagnostics when 1 Spark Plug can be a cause of the problems in the first instance.

This is from other causes like Design of the Engine and Engine Management, but that is a bigger and more involved problem.

[KarlvRS1991]

This thread might have just saved my car. Getting new plugs asap and getting them fitted. Cars running a bit crap at the moment. Thanks George.

[Rooted]

As the Cold Mornings draw in and people get their cars serviced and prepared for winter this might be a good time 

to check or change your spark plugs if you have a Twincharger.

Or any petrol engine car actually.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/371770-spark-plugs-for-mk2-fabia-vrs

[Rooted]

????

Out of interest.

 

Some Skoda Dealers seem to now be changing spark plugs in Twinchargers at a Major Service / 4 Years old.

Originally the Service Schedule / Guidelines was at 40,000 miles.

But you had to pay to have the Spark Pkugs changed over and above the Service,

Usually quoted in the £100 region.

 

*One Member had a Service Manager arguing recently that the Spark Plugs only need changed at 70,000 miles.*

(i take it he gets his Miles and km mixed up.)

 

?

So, have you had your Spark Plugs changed just when a Main Dealer was doing a Service,

What Service was that,

& how much was the Service, or the charge for the spark plugs?

 

thanks for any help.

[Brian69]

George - mine were changed as part of the four-year service (major) - I didn't specifically ask them to do it (although I did enquire when I went in and the service advisor said it was part of the service) and the car had only done 22,630. Looking at the bill it appears the plugs were 50 quid plus VAT. The total cost was about £200 plus VAT.

My minor service last month was £120 including VAT plus around £85 inclusive for brake fluid change and air con service (Skoda were doing a deal with them both packaged together in one price).

[sharkrider]

????

Out of interest.

 

Some Skoda Dealers seem to now be changing spark plugs in Twinchargers at a Major Service / 4 Years old.

Originally the Service Schedule / Guidelines was at 40,000 miles.

But you had to pay to have the Spark Pkugs changed over and above the Service,

Usually quoted in the £100 region.

 

*One Member had a Service Manager arguing recently that the Spark Plugs only need changed at 70,000 miles.*

(i take it he gets his Miles and km mixed up.)

 

?

So, have you had your Spark Plugs changed just when a Main Dealer was doing a Service,

What Service was that,

& how much was the Service, or the charge for the spark plugs?

 

thanks for any help.

my dealer says 50,000 miles..... however, I have had them changed three times under warrenty , and all have failed again (I pointed out to them that they are not addressing the problem, and simply replacing like for like is stupid and unhelpful, the car will still "eat" them withing 10k, but they were obstinate that all they could do was change the "faulty" plugs. so at the last service I brought some NGK7's and told them to fit them (cost about £15 on top of the service bill) , and these have been in for 10k now and are still fine.

 

note: I usually service my car every 10k because of the treatment it gets with track days ect , but due to certain circumstances right now, have not been able to this 10k..... (10,500 miles since last service) , and seeing as winter is less stressful on my car (no track days) I am leaving it until the service indicator says so (another 7,500 miles) or until the next track day.

 

conclusion is the NGK7's are better than stock.

[Sittingbull]

I was the member George referred to above where the Service Manager at a franchised dealer told me spark plug service interval was 70,000 miles, and I would like to be able to extend the benefit of the doubt but given he also told me it was normal for the Vrs to use a litre of oil every 600 miles I don't think he's earned my trust just yet.

 

Our car got the 4 year/ 40,000 mile service done at Parks Skoda, booked via Parks own website for the excellent price of £157. Spark plugs were not changed however as they weren't required apparently, which was in the small print. I mentioned that they were only getting the car to service due to extended warranty conditions that Skoda insisted I stick to, those conditions included sticking to service and maintenance schedule "just as if the engine change had never taken place", which by my reckoning meant that the full major service schedule should have been stuck to, including changing plugs. 

 

Not so, and certainly not when you're paying £102 less than the advertised Skoda fixed price for the exact same service.

 

That said, our car is running well and we are happy with it, so perhaps better not grumble too much or too loud.

 

What is clear however, and sadly not for the first time, is the sheer inconsistency shown across the franchised dealer network. 

[vxh26]

<SNIP>

I have had [my spark plugs] changed three times under warranty, and all have failed again

<SNIP>

I usually service my car every 10k because of the treatment it gets with track days etc.

<SNIP>.

Notice anything possibly significant?

[Rooted]

Yes.

Even cars that have never had Track Days can have Spark Plugs not lasting as long as 10,000 miles,

and have had to have them replaced under warranty.

Many get not even near 1/2 the Manufacturers Service Schedule miles.

 

(I think it was 36,000 miles sharkriders first Twincharger covered including Track Days before the Original Spark Plugs were changed. These came out looking perfect.)

 

The non OEM Spark Plugs that some are fitting can do Track Days and other events and last well over 20,000 miles.

[Rooted]

Just a bump,

as the same old same old keeps coming up, misfires, no fault codes and the Dealership seems loath to check the plugs.

[Rooted]

Bump yet again.

 

It is not always the Spark Plugs that are the root of a problem with a Twincharger, but any Technician working on a twincharger 

should be checking them.

There have been 100's of early failures over the past 6 years in the under 3,000 Mk2 vRS Fabia in the UK.

[Sittingbull]

I'm having to change the spark plugs on ours now, engine has done 25k since being fitted and from looking at dealer service sheets I can't tell for sure that they've definitely been changed during the services since then. Will be getting the dealer to carry out the final service under warranty over the next couple of weeks but will be getting Denso plugs fitted separately as dealer said they won't fit them even if I supply.

[Rooted]

Parks of Hamilton told me at the Service Desk that the Technician would decide after looking at the spark plugs if they would need changing.

I said if you go to the bother of removing them you fit new ones, then at your leisure you inspect the ones removed and maybe reuse again if 

3 of them are OK, and use 1 of the last 3 that were OK.

 

The same Service Desk Gentleman told me they can not put in 5w 40 Full Synthetic because it is only Semi Synthetic.

Then the mumpty told me that the spark plugs are long life and good for 70,000 miles.

(that was not even Gordon is a moron!)

 

Maybe best not have them change spark plugs, and be sure what oil they are using if getting a 'Service Deal'.

According to the Service Desk Staff it will be 5w 30 FS Long Life (VW504 00)

They are after all a Skoda Dealership, the Technicians must be better than the Service Desk surely.

[Brian69]

I wouldn't trust them to service my lawnmower.

[Sittingbull]

Parks of Hamilton told me at the Service Desk that the Technician would decide after looking at the spark plugs if they would need changing.

I said if you go to the bother of removing them you fit new ones, then at your leisure you inspect the ones removed and maybe reuse again if 

3 of them are OK, and use 1 of the last 3 that were OK.

 

The same Service Desk Gentleman told me they can not put in 5w 40 Full Synthetic because it is only Semi Synthetic.

Then the mumpty told me that the spark plugs are long life and good for 70,000 miles.

(that was not even Gordon is a moron!)

 

Maybe best not have them change spark plugs, and be sure what oil they are using if getting a 'Service Deal'.

According to the Service Desk Staff it will be 5w 30 FS Long Life (VW504 00)

They are after all a Skoda Dealership, the Technicians must be better than the Service Desk surely.

 

Almost word for word what I got told at the self same service desk, which is why they're getting the car for one last service to preserve the warranty before it expires in September this year, but are not getting to do the spark plugs. It's almost certainly David you spoke to, much more affable than GTM but unfortunately appears to have swallowed the same BS big book on baffling Skoda Customers by talking guff.

 

In our case I had to get Skoda UK to confirm that the spark plugs had definitely been changed at the time of the engine change as the dealer wouldn't confirm as technician on holiday. Then when I took the car back in for major service 20k down the line I was asked how I had managed to get the service for £157 instead of £259, cue much amazement when I referred him to his own website. I asked if the spark plugs would now be changed and was politely told "not at that bloody price, I don't know who you know to have got the service at that price but you're not getting spark plugs".

 

And so I'll be reluctantly allowing them to carry out this next service before September, but getting the plugs changed elsewhere.

 

As for the oil, you couldn't script it. I asked if the Quantum oil would be used and was told it would be the correct oil used and not to worry. I then produced a carton of Quantum 5w 30 fully synthetic oil and asked if they wanted to use it, but was told they couldn't use it as not certified as suitable. I handed over the receipt showing it had been bought from the Parks Group Ebay store for £22, they asked me to keep it for top ups. It has since been used in a service for Richard's Bocanegra which of course is the exact same set up as the vRS.

 

i'm now on the lookout for the mahle oil filter, pollen filter and air filter as his service interval has come around again. Similar to Parks, the local Seat dealer is looking for £259 for the service. They won't be getting the car either.

 

After this service, and at the end of the warranty period, it's going to our local friendly mechanic for maintenance.

 

I know of another young lad with a very similar vRS to ours who lives in Hamilton and who is having terrible trouble with Parks. I think they think that because of his age the young lad will be a pushover, their treatment so far has been shocking. Chap has a 2010 CAVE engined vRS that he purchased directly from Parks Skoda just over 5 months ago, he paid nearly £8k for car and it came with approved used status and Parks Comprehensive warranty as well. Unfortunately it also came with an unquenchable thirst for oil, using something like a litre every 450 miles, worse than many on here.

 

So the young man happened to bump into me at Morrisons in Hamilton, I parked next to his and we got blethering. I asked him about his car, oil and so on which is how I come to know of his problems. I've met him a few times since and the feedback from his visits to the dealer is far from positive.

 

Having listed the stuff needing done to the car he approached the dealer, the aforementioned Parks, to be told "best not to put these through all at once, they'll think your taking the p". Which is unacceptable. The car should not have left the forecourt with an approved used warranty until the known problems were remedied. I haven't met the lad for a few weeks so don't know how he's getting on.

 

Goneoffski if we do indeed meet up in Hamilton again very shortly would you mind if I asked the young lad along? He's a cracking lad, keen as mustard on his wee car but would benefit from some of your wisdom.

[Rooted]

Catch you when i am back in a couple of weeks and i will bring a Mahle Filter.

Speak soon.

[MilgeS]

Reading recent posts with interest as mine is booked in for full service, brake fluid and MOT late August.

 

The main reason I am concerned is because I looked at the spark plug "changed if needed" section in the service schedule info, I doubt mine were changed when I had a new engine at 7k and I am now on 31k, would they have been looked at or changed when the oil jet work was done?

 

I don't suppose I will know if they are changed at this service, just have to take their word for it. I still sometimes have a slight "misfire" when powering from around 2000rpm, a bit of a "pink", if that continues I'll question if they changed the plugs. Will it be marked on the service sheet after the service has been done?

[Rooted]

Something to think about.

 

If you had a 22 month old twincharger with 18,000 miles and Skoda UK paid to have a new engine fitted @ 18,000 miles.

New Oil, Filter, Spark Plugs etc in.

 

When the car was 24 months old and 20,000 miles they said to keep the warranty valid you needed a Service and change the 2,000 

mile old Oil & Filter.

 

Skoda said you had to go by car age and mileage not the Engines, which was 'Not Simply Clever'.

 

So a Dealership might say it is a 40,000 mile Major Service (by the Mileometer) and Spark Plugs are due replacement,

or they might not.

**They might even say the Service Schedule / Guidelines / Regime says the Spark Plugs are good for 70,000 miles, 

like Parks of Hamilton's GIAM tells customers.**

 

The New Engine should have had New Spark Plugs, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THAT INVOICE AS WELL AS THE LETTER CONFIRMING THE FITTING OF A NEW ENGINE, FOR YOUR RECORDS & FOR FUTURE BUYERS OR THE DVLA IF EVER REQUIRED.

Ask for the Warranty Parts List for the Oil Spray Jets, no Spark Plugs changed then.

(You got that Invoice did you not, the parts list was posted in VXH26's Pinned Thread.)

 

Maybe worth paying to get new spark plugs fitted @ This Service,  you decide.

 

If the Service is to include Spark Plugs being changed then you are paying for the service, 

the Invoice should have the Parts & Part Numbers and cost and VAT.

Just ask, not the Receptionist, the Workshop Manager or the Tech or Master Tech.

 

Best get that Mis-fire dealt with.

Spark Plugs checked and changed and a Software Update if available and not already done.

(Not the DSG Update, the one that went with fitting New Squirters. Or an update since which might be on the system.)

Edited 2 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Sittingbull]

Catch you when i am back in a couple of weeks and i will bring a Mahle Filter.

Speak soon.

 

That would be great George, looking forward to it. I'm about to nip over to the VW dealer at Bogside nr Wishaw re the bonnet on my dad's Golf, I'll let you know how I get on. Should be interesting after speaking to two different owners, one got the work done without hesitation the other got turned away.

 

Reading recent posts with interest as mine is booked in for full service, brake fluid and MOT late August.

 

The main reason I am concerned is because I looked at the spark plug "changed if needed" section in the service schedule info, I doubt mine were changed when I had a new engine at 7k and I am now on 31k, would they have been looked at or changed when the oil jet work was done?

 

I don't suppose I will know if they are changed at this service, just have to take their word for it. I still sometimes have a slight "misfire" when powering from around 2000rpm, a bit of a "pink", if that continues I'll question if they changed the plugs. Will it be marked on the service sheet after the service has been done?

 

In our case the dealer insisted I stuck by the service schedule (miles/ km) on the odometer rather than the miles done on the new engine as there are other areas of work carried out non engine related during the various different services, which would make sense.

 

I'm a bit like you though as our car has 51k on the odometer and therefore 51k on bodywork, paint etc but only 25k on the new engine. I'm not prepared to risk the dealer deciding they (spark plugs) don't need changed given the nonsensical answers I've received in the past to questions they really ought to have been able to answer correctly and without hesitation. 

 

Our service invoices since the new engine went in clearly show spark plugs not changed.