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DSG issues or even real problems?


AndersNordh

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Hi guys!

 

Here in Sweden we have a real hate campaign against the Volkswagen Group DSG gearboxes from several large auto magazines, they strongly encourage people not to buy DSG equipped cars. I have also seen similar things in other countries and we have maybe all seen the news about recalls in China, north America, Australia as well as a lot of complaints in different forums around the world. However, it is hard to understand and look through the information given regarding this issue and I would very much like a bit more balanced discussion ...

 

As an owner of a DSG equipped Skoda I am interested of a more consolidated information where a lot more information is available and that as many issues as possible are reported with the same kind of background  information so that we better can compare and see if we can find any similarities between the problems ...

 

If you like to take the survey, please go to --> The DSG Survey ...

 

... and yes, I am only interested to hear from the owners with problems ...

 

And of course, if you have friends with other DSG equipped Volkswagen Group brands than Skoda, please give them a hint ...

 

More information will come as/if we get enough answers ...

 

Have a nice day!

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Hi guys!

 

Here in Sweden we have a real hate campaign against the Volkswagen Group DSG gearboxes from several large auto magazines, they strongly encourage people not to by DSG equipped cars. I have also seen similar things in other countries and we have maybe all seen the news about recalls in China, north America, Australia as well as a lot of complaints in different forums around the world. However, it is hard to understand and look through the information given regarding this issue and I would very much like a bit more balanced discussion ...

 

As an owner of a DSG equipped Skoda I am interested of a more balanced information where a lot more information is available and that as many issues as possible are reported with the same kind of background  information so that we better can compare and see if we can find any similarities between the problems ...

 

If you like to take the survey, please go to --> The DSG Survey

 

More information will come as/if we get enough answers ...

 

Have a nice day!

 

I'm afraid at the moment your link does not work.

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The link published by the OP doesn't appear to work, but, from the page that does appear go to its Home page, then click on the 'Survey' tab, or try this link.

 

I'm not one of those with a DSG problem, though. I've had my Fabia 1.2tsi Elegance Estate DSG for just over a year now and I'm absolutely delighted with it. (Now I'm probably cursed!)

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The link published by the OP doesn't appear to work, but, from the page that does appear go to its Home page, then click on the 'Survey' tab, or try this link.

 

I'm not one of those with a DSG problem, though. I've had my Fabia 1.2tsi Elegance Estate DSG for just over a year now and I'm absolutely delighted with it. (Now I'm probably cursed!)

 

That one works, maybe it was just me then :(

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BJB540, it didn't work for me either, which is why I posted the alternative link. I hope the OP publishes the result of his survey.

 

Yes, of course I will post the result as soon as issues and/or problems are reported but I would need a at least 20-25 to start looking for a pattern ...

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The link published by the OP doesn't appear to work, but, from the page that does appear go to its Home page, then click on the 'Survey' tab, or try this link.

 

I'm not one of those with a DSG problem, though. I've had my Fabia 1.2tsi Elegance Estate DSG for just over a year now and I'm absolutely delighted with it. (Now I'm probably cursed!)

 

Hi!

 

For some reason the first users appear to have gotten a truncated link but from what I can see now the link in the original post is working as it should so I suggest that everybody uses it.

 

--> The DSG Survey ...

 

Even though I don't wish for someone to have a problem I still hope for feedback enough to find some similarities and hopefully that the problem is not as big any longer.

 

Thanks!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi!

 

Well, now we start to see some feedback from the survey and some myth's wandering around here in Sweden at least seem to be wrong.

 

  • Only taxi's in start-stop-start traffic suffer from the DSG7 failures.

Wrong! Only 2 of 20 cars so far are taxies.

  • Only large cars with torque on the limit of the DSG7 have problems.

Wrong! There seem to be a good mix of sizes, very often with smaller engines nowhere near any DSG7 torque limits.

  • Only cars used for heavy towing have problems.

Well, so far it often seem to be cars without(!) hitches ... so wrong!

  • Only tuned cars are affected.

Hmm, if people answer the survey truthfully ... Not one seem to be tuned ... so wrong!

 

You find more info >> here >> ...

 

When we see some more answers I will also provide the Excel sheet, continously updated, for download so that you can juggle around with the answers as much as you like ...

 

Have a nice evening!

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Hi again! Sorry for spamming this thread ...

 

We now have 38 complete answers to the survey which still are too few to see any specific pattern so please spread the word in other forums or communities where you are active. So far we have received the following information ...

 

Have a nice day!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi again!

 

Have had some more feedback to the survey now but still no pattern that would point to any specific area.

 

The only thing that seem pretty clear is that most of the problems today being reported are regarding the 7 speed DQ200 gearbox. This is probably not news to anyone that has followed the motoring press lately but still ...

 

... and it is not only the heavy tuned cars towing heavy trailers that are affected ... ;-)

 

More to read here ...

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  • 4 months later...

There is a very useful thread, obtaining Customer feedback issues relating to the "Service Campaign" /Recall headed-"Simple Questions ,DQ200 DSG7sPEED Twin Dry Clutch UK "Service Campaign"

 

Reference to this can be see in Fabia 2 Forum.

 

There is also under the Superb 2 Forum, an interesting case history of a 4600 mile old L&K Estate owner (Gasser) who has had to have his DSG REPLACED, as Skoda Tech and dealer tech could not find the frightening  malfunction "Brown Trouser " fault .  

Edited by vrskeith
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi again!

 

Have had some more feedback to the survey now but still no pattern that would point to any specific area.

 

Interesting thread, and I have read the survey responses, now over 100.

 

Anders, you have clearly been looking for a common factor in the type of use that the cars have had, and none is apparent.  A lot of respondents also say they are gentle drivers.

 

My wife and I have just bought a Roomster 1.2TSI 105ps 7 speed DSG Scout. 

 

Since the launch of DSG I have been wary of the complexity of these gearboxes;  even now I would not use one for towing, and I have not yet decided whether the risk of owning one outside warranty is acceptable.  I hope that I can change my mind, because we usually keep cars for a long time.

 

With that in mind, I have given some thought to what we can do to improve the chance that we have a trouble-free car.  So I have set out to find out as much as possible about how DSG (and especially the DG200 version) works, and what sort of problems can arise with that and the 1.2 TSI engine.

 

There seem to be two recurring issues with these cars  - 

 

 - DSG problems, to which your survey relates; and

 

 - problems concerning the timing chain.

 

Regarding the DSG:

 

The handbook gives very little information about how it works, but it does say among other things

 

The vehicle must be held on the brake pedal in D, S or R modes if the vehicle
is halted and the engine is running. Even when the engine is idling, power
transmission is never completely interrupted – the vehicle will creep.
 
Never try to hold the vehicle using the accelerator pedal when stopping on a hill
– this may lead to transmission damage.
 
The "creep" warning would apply to a normal epicyclic torque-converter-equipped transmission (a "TC auto"), but surely we don't need to be told to brake if the car is moving and we don't want it to?  Why the footbrake, and not the handbrake, which does not appear to release the clutch?
 
I investigated, and found that the car still tries to move, even with the handbrake on, if in gear.  Clearly the clutch must be slipping - if it was fully engaged, the car would be moving.  On the other hand, pressing the footbrake seems to back off the clutch from the bite point.
 
The second, "do not hold on the accelerator" warning seems to have the same point behind it - if the car is stationary, in gear, on a hill without brakes, then the clutch is slipping, heating up, and wearing out.  Holding a car on the clutch is very bad practice, whether we are controlling the clutch with a clutch pedal, or just using the accelerator as with DSG.
 
This is pretty serious, because many DSG drivers will have come from old-style automatics (as has my wife).  Leaving a TC auto in D with the handbrake on, or holding it on the accelerator, will usually do it no harm.  It does not wear the brake bands in the gearbox, it just churns the fluid, and provided that it is adequately cooled then there is no problem.
 
DSG seems to have the potential for drivers to adopt a bad habit, possibly carried over from long and trouble-free experience of a TC auto, that will kill the gearbox through clutch wear/overheating. The point is that it appears possible to drive a DSG in just the same way as a TC auto, but with far more destructive results
 
Although the warnings are there in the handbook, there is no explanation of the reason for them, or of the possible consequences.
 
We intend to use our DSG with full awareness of what the clutch is doing, as far as possible - just as we do our manual cars.  I do not, for example, reverse my caravan uphill with my manual Mitsubishi Outlander - it is just too hard on the clutch pushing a 1200kg trailer uphill without the clutch being fully engaged, which is usually impractical in a confined space.
 
Regarding engine longevity, I intend to do the same as I have with my other turbo cars - change the oil and filter in between scheduled services i.e. every 5,000 miles in the case of a Roomster on a 10,000 mile/annual servicing regime, and ensure there is always enough oil in the engine.  I hope that will also have benefit for the timing chain wear.
 
What do the VAG/Skoda experts say?  Is it possible that owners are unknowingly shortening the life of their DSGs by driving in a "normal" manner that is incompatible with DSG?  Intuitively, this would also account for the dry-clutch DQ200 boxes exhibiting more problems than the wet-clutch versions, on both higher and lower torque engines.
 
I have searched this forum and the internet for specific guidance on how to look after these gearboxes and found almost nothing. I'm trying to work it out for myself, but it would be good to have some practical guidance from someone who knows the workings of these gearboxes.
 
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Welcome to the forum, & i hope you Enjoy your car.

 

Your engine has Variable Servicing Available,  19,000 miles does it not ?,

but if you chose to do Fixed Servicing, 10,000 miles /12 months using 

VW 504 00 Oil will be often enough, (If you do not want to use VW502 00)

 

You really are not needing to do 5,000 mile Oil & Filter changes,  Only my Opinion.

 

As far as Warranty, 

Did you Extend your Warranty on Purchase, or will you extend it when the Original Manufactures Warranty Exprires?

 

If you follow the Manufacturers Service Schedule (Guidlines) that should see you OK for 6 years or more.

Unless you do very high mileages.

 

I hope you enjoy your car, it should not be a stressful experience owning and running one.

Your car has its Towing Limits Braked & Unbraked and the DSG should cope with that quite well.

The DSG is not made of Chocolate,

& if your car is a 2014 Build, surely VW put Mineral Oil in the DSG at the Factory during the build.

(So should not require the Service Campaign Field Action that various other DQ200 DSG Equipped cars in the UK may have required since May this year.when Skoda started a Silent Service Campaign on some DSG's built between 2009-2013 for some models.)

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign

 

Your DQ200 7 speed Twin Dry clutch will cope fine with 105 ps and towing to your 1200 kg limit.  (is that the limit for it?)

Any vehicle Auto or Manual can have issues reversing a full weight trailer up a hill where there is one Gear Ratio being used.

Something with a Transfer Box and high and low ratios when in reverse is a different matter.

 

george

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Welcome to the forum, & i hope you Enjoy your car.

 

...

 

george

 

Thanks George.

 

I think I might be stressed if I didn't look after it properly :) - we like to keep cars a long time (this is replacing a 12 year old Honda Civic 1.6 VTEC auto, owned from new) and I think for that term of ownership a bit more maintenance pays off.

 

The two UK Skoda dealers I have dealt with recently both set the servicing to fixed (12 months or 10,000 miles) by default, and that is OK for us - I'm not a fan of variable servicing/longlife oils.  Maybe it is OK for high mileage users doing long journeys, but the Scout will probably do less than 10,000 miles per year and mainly short journeys (5-10 miles). 

 

The extra oil changes must have some benefit although I accept it may be small - intervals are a compromise between wear and cost/downtime and I am just trying to shift the balance.  I hope I can do it almost without getting my hands dirty using my Pela extractor; happily, the filter is very accessible from the top, too.  Cost is minimal at £12 for a genuine filter and £15 for just under 4 litres of this stuff http://goo.gl/yL7Hwq .  I am certainly not going to pay the dealer £100+ to do it.

 

I would have extended the warranty, that was my plan, but the dealer refused as the car was pre-registered (a week earlier) and therefore technically second hand (9 miles on the clock).

 

I did buy this 3 year New Car Fixed Price Service Plan http://goo.gl/CjIOFL for £479 which the dealer also said they could not sell me until I drew their attention to the Skoda website which clearly says it is available for cars up to one year old!

 

I take your point about the DSG being robust enough to tow - interesting that Skoda does not reduce the towing limit for the DSG as most manufacturers do for a TC auto.

 

The car is certainly 2014 model year, not sure about the build date - the latest date I can find on any parts is 11/13.

 

Apology for the thread drift.

 

The main thrust of my last post above was really to get views on the potential value of recognising that whilst a DSG can be used like a TC auto (and almost certainly is by many drivers), depending on the driver's habits that could be a risk factor for the clutches and, through excess heat, for other parts especially the control unit.  I am mindful that the dry clutches are single plate.  What seems like 'normal' use to an experienced user of traditional automatics may in fact be tantamount to abuse.  Fortunately most auto users I know use the footbrake to hold the car. 

 

I'm surprised I haven't heard more about this, although of course the last thing we want is dealers blaming customers for creating a problem.

 

A rather frightening benchmark of a kind is the memory of an old colleague who insisted that holding a car on the (conventional) clutch was a perfectly valid way to drive.  His clutches lasted as little as 8,000 miles.

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The same DQ200 but with a different map is on the 1.4 TSI Twinchargers with a minimum 180 & 185 ps and members here use them hard with 210-230 plus BHP.

They are really very good.

(The vRS has no Towing Ability, you can not fit a tow ball, because Skoda did not Submit weight limits for them, but the Polo GTI, Seat Ibiza Cupra and Audi A1 185 ps

do have towing limits with exactly the same engine and DSG. 630 kg unbraked, 1,200 kg braked)

 

I have a 2 year Extended Warranty running on a 4 year old vRS & it will get extended again next year for a further 2 years.

2 year Skoda Approved Extended Warranty @ around £550 which is with Car Care Plan which the VWG own.

 

I have driven only Autoboxes for 35 years as i only have one foot.

The DSG is wonderful, and you drive it like a DSG not a Torque Converter auto, a CTV or anything else.

It is an 'Automated Manual', and good for towing/decelerating changing down manually.

 

Be aware if you are on the throttle and use the brake, power is cut at the engine.

 

Do you have Hill Hold Control on your DSG, just to help with the cars hold as you go from Brake to Throttle on ascents?

You need a good push of the brake and it only holds 2-3 seconds.

Other wise i still use 'N' and a Hand Brake when stopped for any period of time.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi everybody!

 

Just noticed that for model year 2014 no DQ200 related issues regarding clutch or mechatronic has been reported at http://dsg-survey.com/ yet ... Could be good news ... or just that nobody has told us yet? So far I have a leaking 2014 DQ200 but that is not a common issue ... The rest of the reports for 2014 are related to DQ250 issues. Let's hope that VW now finally has solved the main issues ... :-)

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