Fabia 1.2 TSI - motor failure

[vazadouro]

I have a big problem with my Fabia, and would like to ask for advice.

 

I have a Fabia Break, 1.2 TSI, 85hp. Bought in 2010, it has now done a bit more than 50000 miles. Always serviced by local Skoda dealer / workshop (I am in Portugal).

 

Two weeks ago driving up a ramp at speed I lost power, and a heavy, slow vibration started. Took it to the workshop which has carried out all services. No compression in one cylinder. Following consultation with factory, proposed solution: replace engine. No explanation as to cause.

 

Vehicle is one year out of warranty. Given age and history of vehicle, Skoda will give 30% discount off cost of motor, workshop will give 50% off labour. Proposed cost: about £2200 / 2700 Euros.

 

So, what can I do? Any alternatives to accepting their proposal? Is it  a good deal?

 

thanks, vazadouro

 

[OzFabia]

Out of warranty = a very good deal that you're getting anything at all towards it, in my opinion. That said, it is disappointing that it's happened at a relatively early time.

 

What's your alternative? You need to get it fixed, or it's virtually unsellable, and obviously it's no good to you with a motor needing replacement.

[xman]

Ask for more contribution, skoda should pay 50%. Insist on a new factory built engine and not a reconditioned unit. Also 3 year warranty on replacement engine.

 

If the car has full service history, then it sounds to me that there has been a manufacturing defect, in which case it may be covered 100% by EU law for up to 6 years. 1.2 tsi engines of that vintage had a silent recall to replace low quality timing chains. Check with Skoda if your engine number was included and if the dealer did the work.

 

For example

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/252849-12-tsi-timing-chain-recall/

Edited 16 December, 2013 by xman

[32KOFDATA]

No explanation as to cause? sounds odd - if I was you and since you are out of warranty I would check the car with a specialist and get a second opinion.

[vazadouro]

I checked the VIN number on the Skoda site - no recall. Could the problem have been caused by the timing belt?

 

The price is for a factory-reconditioned engine, with 2 year guarantee. "A new one would be much more".

 

I am not happy with this.

Edited 16 December, 2013 by vazadouro

[xman]

It was a "silent" recall, only dealers were informed to change the chain, tensioner and lower control housing when the car came in for a service.

 

I think its reasonable to expect a full diagnosis of what went wrong. Sounds like the chain stretched and then jumped a tooth or two on the timing sprocket causing piston to hit the valves.

[stratosg]

I would recommend you to contact with Skoda factory explaining them what is your problem. Also sennd them a copy (scan) of the service book and ask for their help.

 

My car rattles some times on cold starts. I am out of warranty and dealer informed me that I have to pay for the timing chain replacement, when on warranty many dealers told me than there is no recall for my VIN and the sound is absolutely normal. I cannot realise how a normal soun becomes a timing chain replacement after the expiration of warranty. I am not willing to pay something that is a manufacturer's defect and there is no way to service it in regular basis, or in certain time intervals. Timing chain is not like timing belt. It is supposed to live as long as the engine can live, or needs a replacement after 200.000Km or so. Not 50.000Km or three and a half years.

 

Unfortunately I am not a happy Skoda owner after twelve years and three Skoda cars. I really do not know if I will buy a Skoda car again. I have a colleague of mine who drives a 2006 VW Golf V 1.4Tsi Gt with 102.000Km on clock and a month ago had his engine replaced with a brand new engine totally free of charge. The engine had a cracked piston and they told his that this was not caused by his driving attitude but it was a defect of the engine. I also have another colleague of mine that had a mini block replacement in his 2004 1.6 Toyota Corolla sedan a year ago, because he complaint that his car consumes oil. The consumption was barely 1lt / 10.000 km. Again the cost was zero. Don't forget to mention that both had replacement cars as long as their cars were in service stations.

 

I know that malfunctions happens in every car brand no matter if it is a high reputated or a low reputated one. At least many other manufacturers offers six or seven years of warranty and not only two as Skoda did back in 2010 when I bought my car. It really annoys me to speak like that for Skoda, because I do really love Skoda cars, in fact I always liked them since my childhood, but this is something different. I want a car to drive, not a car to drive me. Unfortunatelly threads like this one makes me feel unhappy. I also makes feel sorry for Skoda and their customer services. It seems that they are kind to customers only when they want to put their hand in customer's pocket and they are never willing to take responsibility for their defects. And this is not fair.

[vazadouro]

I would recommend you to contact with Skoda factory explaining them what is your problem. Also sennd them a copy (scan) of the service book and ask for their help.

 

 

How can I contact the factory? I looked on the site, but couldn't find anything.

[stratosg]

Their site is under maintenance at the time.

[GeneralPurpose]

Skoda customer services, that's where to start! Number should be in the handbook but dealer can direct you.

[32KOFDATA]

Send an email to [email protected] - they replied to me after 3 days.

[vazadouro]

On Monday night I sent an email to [email protected], with a copy to the importer, describing the situation and my disappointment at the lack of information on teh problem, and the company's position.

 

It's now Wednesday, no reply from either yet.

 

The workshop says it was not the timing belt, this model has a chain. The only problem is the lack of compression in one cylinder. I asked for further explanation of problem and solution, in writing, the only reply was that the problem is compression, and I need another engine.

[xman]

I said earlier - this engine has a history of failing cam chains - the early examples stretched easily and and the tensioner allowed them to go slack enough to jump sprockets, wrecking the engines.

 

Any half decent garage would be able to inpect and work out the sequence of events that lead to that catastophic failure - total loss of compression. Was the piston damaged?, were the valves damaged etc. I smell a fish - that the dealer is not willing to investigate in case it shows them as having been negligent.

 

Catastophic engine failure in 50,000 miles / 3 years on a correctly maintained and kept vehicle should be entirely  Skoda's and/or the dealers responsibilty.

[vazadouro]

The workshop states that this one did not require replacement of the chain. They only replaced chains in case of a breakage or problem.

 

Today I spoke to the national importer, they sad they will get back to me. No reply from Skoda, after 2 working days.

[xman]

Once a chain breaks its too late to change as the engine is ruined!

[vazadouro]

The workshop says this is not related to the chain. Maybe they mean that they did not replace if it was not loose.

 

However, they have not indicated the cause. "Low compression" is not the cause it is a symptom. This is one of the largest VAG dealers in Lisbon, who carried out all services.

[stratosg]

Dear vazaduro take a look here https://www.facebook.com/skoda/posts/394900147269119 It is a writing from a group of Octavia 1.2Tsi owners for Romania.

 

 

Skoda replied at their post and advised them to write an email at [email protected] ,so you can try to send your mail there too.

[vazadouro]

Thanks for your comments. Yesterday I received the following reply from Skoda headquarters:
 

We regret very much that you have had difficulties with a product of our company. We examined your complaint and passed it for direct handling to our representation in Portugal. The importer organization representing the brand Škoda is entitled to respond to all queries, comments, claims / complaints of customers in accordance with current legislation of your country and warranty and claim conditions as well as with the approved repair technology. We hope that within this procedure the case will be resolved to your full satisfaction and you will continue to favour the brand Škoda.

The Skoda representative / importer replied (my translation):
 

Despite the great quality of Skoda products, some breakdowns occur. Skoda vehicles are covered by warranty for 2 years. There are situations outside the warranty in which these Workshops can, as a courtesy, offer special conditions depending on mileage and having strictly followed recommended maintenance. Thus we consider that the Workshop has acted in the best interests of the client in proposing a significant discount in the costs of repair.

The courtesy is offering me 30% discount on the refurbished engine and 50% on labour, to replace an engine that failed after 80000 km and 3 years. It will cost me 2700 euros.

[vazadouro]

Well, just to update it seems my complaining had some  effect, because the importer has increased the discount on the reconditioned engine to 50%, bringing the cost down to about 2000 euros.

 

I spoke to the chief mechanic, he says that the lack of compression is due to wear or damage on one of the pistons. They cannot do anything for it except send it back to the factory.

 

I can believe mine is an isolated case, but it is disappointing because we like the car. I would recommend getting an additional warranty on vehicles with these engines. I should have done this, but left it too late.

[Wonky]

Well done, seems strange that they have actually got a supply of engines to recondition given that they are only a few years old and reliable! Perhaps it will be a new one.

[vazadouro]

Well done, seems strange that they have actually got a supply of engines to recondition given that they are only a few years old and reliable! Perhaps it will be a new one.

 

I imagine mine will go back the factory, to be reconditioned (pistons replaced?) for the next unfortunate.

[stratosg]

Ok that seems to me... Never Buy a Skoda. It was a prhase used to be spoken for Fiat cars. Unfortunatelly, this completely fits nowadays Skoda's policy. No respect to the customer for a built in fault.

 

Vazaduro, why don't you ask how much the repair cost would be at an independant VAG specialiist ?

[xman]

Pistons don't just damage themselves, they get damaged by something. (Usually by hitting a valve).

 

Piston wear causing a sudden and catastrophic failure? I don't think so.

 

Highly unsatisfactory technical report. Can't they show you the failed piston? If there is damage in the crown (top) then we're back to the probability of chain failure.

[xman]

Its also interesting to note that UK models have a 3 year warranty (2 year manufacturer, and 1 year Skoda UK)

[stratosg]

It is the same in Greece too. Only two years of warranty (while my washing machine is covered for ten years ) and if customer wants can buy two more years of warranty as an extension.

 

A question has just popped up in my mind.

 

If Vazadouro comes to UK will his car be fixed under warranty ?

 

If some of UK citizens make a road trip to Vazadouros' Country or in my Country and then an malfuctions comes up to the car that is covered for three years under warranty,  will or will not be covered under warranty since the warranty over here is two years?

 

That's the question.