Fabia 1.6 TDI CR 105ps Running issues and MPG Problems

[Jon Dimond]

Hi, 

 

We've got an early 2012 model Fabia 1.6 CR SE Plus estate, that we bought new in March 2012. The car suits us really well as we've got a young child and another on the way. It's a bit old person spec, but it's comfy and a good size.

 

Since we've had it it's been back to the dealer quite a lot! 

 

Within two weeks it stopped selecting reverse gear, which after a week at the dealer, turned out to be a microswitch in the selector mechanism below the gear stick. 

 

It's had an issue with failing to start on the first turn of the key, regardless of the weather. It would always start, but often only on the second attempt. It went back to the dealer again and I think they updated the software. 

 

We took it to France in the summer, clocking up probably around 1500 miles, mainly motorway and a road type stuff. Whilst driving out of Le Mans on the motorway, the coil light started flashing. Book says stop car and take me to your dealer. We ended up getting it recovered and after two awkward trips to the french dealer, they diagnosed a faulty exhaust gas temp sensor. 

 

So when we got home, back to the dealer to have it replaced. 

 

We've also had shocking MPG out of it. It's never been good, but we've given it a chance to 'loosen up' as suggested by the dealer. Well it's done 27000 miles now, so I think that's enough loosening. Overall average we get about 47-49 mpg and these days I drive like my nan. The engine rarely goes above 2500. It also sounds terrible and rough compared to the (exact same model) courtesy car we had, which we easily managed 60mpg out of. I also got 97.7mpg out of their Citigo, which has the same claimed figures as the Fabia. It's got NO torque below 2000rpm, so the slightest incline causes it to struggle.

 

So we've mentioned this to the dealer a number of times and they just keep saying that the computer shows no faults and on their test drive they got 60mpg. It does every now and then seem to improve for a single journey, for example I got nearly 80mpg on an easy country run the other day. 

 

The last few journeys I've done have recorded:

 

Town driving, medium traffic, engine warm, reset MPG1. 27mpg, 14 minutes, 1 mile, 6mph Av

 

Town (2 miles) and country, cold start, no traffic, 45.7mpg, 22 minutes, 8 miles, 24mph av

 

Return of above, cold start no traffic, 50.5mpg, 23 minutes, 8 miles, 23mph av

 

Town (2 miles) and country, light traffic, 37.3 mpg, 36 minutes, 10 miles, 18mph average

 

Above plus immediate return journey, 42.7mpg, 1hour 3 minutes, 19 miles, 19mph av. 

 

It gets no better on the motorway either really, We'll be lucky to see above 50mpg on a longer run. The car does 15k a year, including at least 1 75 mile motorway journey a week. It's very rarely used for any journeys under 5 miles. 

 

I know it's not right, But Skoda don't want to do anything about it as they can't find a problem with the car. Getting cross now, as we were hoping to keep this one for a few years, but at this rate it won't be staying longer than it's warranty period, as I reckon there's a pretty expensive problem hiding somewhere. 

 

Oh and the brakes have started squeaking! Our last car was an Ibiza Ecomotive, which after 50k had 10% brake wear according to the dealer.

 

So what's the next move? 

[Rooted]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Are all the fuel figures from the Cars Indicated use, or actually Brimming  the Fuel Tank, covering known distances and Brimming the tank again.

Like with the Citigo and covering near 100 miles for a gallon, did it start with a full tank and after 97.7 miles it would not take 4.546 litres of petrol in?

Do you use some Fuel Ap like 'Fuelly'?

 

Re, Brakes. & General Servicing.

What servicing have they had done to them.

Do you know that the Wheels have been off at a service and the Drums Removed if it has Drums.?

 

Has it had a new Air Filter, has the fuel filter required changing or might it need changing.

What tyre pressures do you run and do you check them regularly?

 

Where do you buy your fuel, what is it that you use?

 

http://skoda.co.uk/fuel-consumption-statement

Means nothing, a light car with no options fitted being tested, not real world.

 

george

[Jon Dimond]

The figures above are from the trip computer, but we have done a brim to brim average over 1000 Miles, and it averaged 47mpg, which is pretty much what the trip said for the same period, so I'm pretty confident in it's accuracy. 

 

The citigo was just a courtesy car, so didn't have it long enough to go brimming tanks. 

 

I'll have a look into a fuel app. At the moment I just note down the readings after every journey. 

[Rooted]

This might interest you, but since you have had the car since new and know the consumption from the start, maybe not relevant.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/299201-winter-tdi-cr-105-biofuel-winter-diesel-problem

 

Might be worth a Fuel Filter change.

&

be sure the Rear Brakes are looked at, just in case of a problem there if not already properly inspected.

 

You say that Skoda do not want to do anything,

but is that a Skoda Dealership Workshop, Reception Desk Staff or Workshop Technicians rather than actually Skoda.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/national-pricing/servicing

[Jon Dimond]

Thanks for that link, it's quite interesting, as the engine is noticeably less refined than the courtesy car was and the power is definitely down. I wonder what they'd say about that?

 

I've just checked that link, and it says that the diesel filter should be on the 20,000 mile service, which it's had. I can't say we noticed any difference after that to be honest. It's 7000 miles old now and not due replacement for another 13k.

 

Are the rear brakes known to be a problem? The brakes do seem quite grabby to me, they're very much nothing, nothing, nothing, ON! No progression really, unlike other modern stuff (even VAG) I've driven. Handbrake is crap too. 

 

I've been in contact with the service manager at the dealer, who has agreed to look into it further in a couple of weeks time, but is very much of the opinion that there is nothing wrong. Have not really spoken to any techs directly.

 

I have also been in contact with Skoda UK, who have eventually escalated my complaint to another level and have a case manager looking into it, but he's basically said that unless the dealer can find a problem, then there is no problem. My only option is to try another franchised dealer for a second opinion. 

 

 

This might interest you, but since you have had the car since new and know the consumption from the start, maybe not relevant.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/299201-winter-tdi-cr-105-biofuel-winter-diesel-problem

 

Might be worth a Fuel Filter change.

&

be sure the Rear Brakes are looked at, just in case of a problem there if not already properly inspected.

 

You say that Skoda do not want to do anything,

but is that a Skoda Dealership Workshop, Reception Desk Staff or Workshop Technicians rather than actually Skoda.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/national-pricing/servicing

Edited 6 January, 2014 by Jon Dimond

[Rooted]

Are you on a Service Package, or paying for your Services each time?

 

The Diesel Fuel filter is not 'automatically' changed every 20,000 miles, yours might never have been done.

Check the Invoice/Receipt and see if it has been charged for as a Part so changed.

Ask the Servicing Dealership if it was done at 20,000 miles, being on the invoice does not mean it actually was hanged..

 

You could have had bad fuel in at the PDI before you ever collect a car, and the fuel filter has contamination right from day one.

Far fetched, but sillier things have happened.

 

What Fuel do you use, from what filling stations.??

For the cost of getting a New Fuel Filter i would. (maybe not if it was changed 7,000 miles ago)

Have the rear Drums been off your car, have the Wheels ever been off in the 27,000 miles?

 

The car is not technically advanced,

the engine is either performing correctly and producing the correct power delivery and efficiency. Or it is not.

The car is the weight it is and driven as it is.

Or things like Brakes Binding, or low tyre pressures effect economy.

 

Binding brakes normally wear down after so long, or bearings heat up and burn out.

Broken Return Springs on Drum Brakes can mean a dragging brake, but usually that gets picked up on or noticed.

 

All basic stuff, and since your car manages good economy at times, 'like " nearly 80 mpg on an easy country run"

there can not be that much wrong with it.

[2ndskoda]

Hi

as an until recently a 1.6 diesel CR90 TDI SE+ owner, it seems to me you are not receiving the best of attention from your 'dealer' (is he a true Skoda dealership?)

Be under no misconception, the torgue from this engine is such that you should feel the torque really punching you in the back as you accelerate from approx 1500rpm upwards. The car is no slouch. From your description, something is vastly wrong (is the turbo coming in?)

Go to someone who knows the product, and has the necessary diagnostic gear, and the ability to use it to your advantage. Forget the silly ideas and speculations put forward so far - and get to someone who really knows the product.

Good Luck

[Jon Dimond]

We just pay for the standard minor and major services. I don't know if the filter was changed at the 20,000 mile service. I doubt it if it's not a requirement. However having told them that there were running problems, you would hope they at least checked it's function.

 

The majority of our fuel comes from a Tesco express with an Esso filling station attached. It's the busiest one in town, so the throughput should be massive. Have tried different fuel though, including some Ultimate, which made very little difference.

 

I will discuss the fuel filter and squeaking brake when it goes in on the 20th. 

 

The dealer is a proper franchise, they only sell Skoda new and used, and have a proper service department. If you boot it and get the turbo to kick in properly, then it's not too bad, but then the economy absolutely nose dives. 

 

The thing is, I really want to like this car, but this rubbish economy and 300k Pug 406 taxi engine noise are ruining it. 

[tlx]

We have the same engine, have also been disappointed by the fuel consumption and get similar unhelpful and unsympathetic responses from our local dealer.  This is my second new Fabia and I now wouldn't buy another with a diesel engine.  We get much better mpg out of our BMW 320D which is older than the 2010 Fabia - it's delivered over 50mpg over several thousand miles while we have an average of under 44mpg from the Fabia.  We're on 23500 miles, have had the rear brakes cleaned out, but no new fuel filter.  Ours now seems to be running rough and I had thought it might be the DPF trying to regen after some short trips, but a good long run has not improved things.  When it's going well its a great engine and occasionally we have seen decent mpg, but not often and its hard to see any logic to the variation.  There have been loads of threads on this subject with all sorts of theories and no clear resolution.  Time to move on for us!

[Rooted]

OT again, Sorry,

but on the 406 Pug Taxi Diesel Noise ,

i was thinking last year on getting a Mini Clubvan Diesel automatic, i even borrowed one and really liked it.

 

Went outside a while ago to see who the Taxi was picking up, and low and behold it was a Driving Instruction car, 

someone under instruction trying to reverse park, in a 63 Plate Mini Cooper SD, lovely in Metallic Blue,

but what an unbelievable noise/clatter.

[Jon Dimond]

I had an L reg 306 1.9 non turbo diesel, with 150k on the clock and it had not been looked after, ever. I did 20k in it without even changing the oil. It still returned over 50mpg and I drove it horribly. My N Reg 106 1.5d used to get nearer to 60 and that had knackered suspension, knackered steering, the ropiest tyres going and used to get driven like it was stolen.

I drive the skoda as if it's made from eggshells.....

[promethian]

We have the same engine, have also been disappointed by the fuel consumption and get similar unhelpful and unsympathetic responses from our local dealer.  This is my second new Fabia and I now wouldn't buy another with a diesel engine.  We get much better mpg out of our BMW 320D which is older than the 2010 Fabia - it's delivered over 50mpg over several thousand miles while we have an average of under 44mpg from the Fabia.  We're on 23500 miles, have had the rear brakes cleaned out, but no new fuel filter.  Ours now seems to be running rough and I had thought it might be the DPF trying to regen after some short trips, but a good long run has not improved things.  When it's going well its a great engine and occasionally we have seen decent mpg, but not often and its hard to see any logic to the variation.  There have been loads of threads on this subject with all sorts of theories and no clear resolution.  Time to move on for us!

Break out the PD engine designs again Skoda.... you know it makes sense

[Jon Dimond]

We needed the diesel because of the corporate tax breaks for band b and under which meant you could write off the whole cost of the car against tax in 1 year. None of the petrols come close. But if we knew that 50mpg was the best we could hope for, we'd have saved the 2k, got a 105ps petrol and dealt with 45- 50ish mpg at 5-10p a litre less fuel cost.

[Carlodiesel]

105bhp Diesel 1.6 here.

Just finished a trip of just over 600 miles in one week.

Av 54  mpg.

Mostly motorway with quite high speeds.

Fully loaded 5 up & luggage for well over half the miles.

Asda £1.37 p.l

[Stormchaser]

Break out the PD engine designs again Skoda.... you know it makes sense

Agree on this totally

[MarginWalker]

Agree on this totally

So do I, but PD unit injector diesel technology has been dumped for good I'm afraid. It's a highly efficient design but doesn't work adequately with DPFs- VAG tried it with the 2.0 PD and it proved to be a troublesome lemon. I plan to keep my 1.9 PD for as long as possible.

[promethian]

So do I, but PD unit injector diesel technology has been dumped for good I'm afraid. It's a highly efficient design but doesn't work adequately with DPFs- VAG tried it with the 2.0 PD and it proved to be a troublesome lemon. I plan to keep my 1.9 PD for as long as possible.

Doesnt seem to work too well with the CR engines either looking at all the posts, and DPF regen problems

 

EDIT

 

I plan to keep my 1.9 PD for as long as possible TOO

Edited 6 January, 2014 by promethian

[GeneralPurpose]

[quote name="Jon Dimond

I drive the skoda as if it's made from eggshells.....

John, I sympathise but this could be the problem! This engine should be revved hard often to keep it clean inside. You cannot hurt it. Do this several times a month going well up the rev scale with your foot firmly planted on the gas. Put real load on the engine. This keeps the turbo, its waste gate, egr, valves and pistons soot free. It also cleans the injectors. The Honest John site gives good advice about this regarding modern diesels. The 1.6cr is a very short stroke engine for a diesel. This means it already has a low piston speed for any given rpm figure. It has been designed this way to allow more time on the power stroke for all fuel to burn completely, and allow more time for the multipump sequential injection system to operate efficiently. It also makes the engine last a long time. But it needs to rev to keep it clean. I note you say it rarely gets above 2500rpm. That's way too low for a modern shorter stroke diesel if it doesn't get regular faster runs with periods of higher revs. They love to rev and indeed need to rev to operate cleanly, efficiently and smoothly.

However, it could still be that you have a problem. Hopefully you did not try to keep getting maximum fuel economy during the initial running in period. That results in the engine remaining very tight and not running in properly with these modern diesel engines. Given your gentle driving style its possible your injectors have suffered and are cruded up. Try a good quality dpf friendly injector cleaner. Follow the instructions and don't overdose. Other things to check are that the air filter is clean and dry and as George says, make sure the fuel filter is replaced or had been replaced. There are many instances of dirty fuel filters causing your sort of issues.

In saying all this I appreciate you may already know about this sort of stuff. You are clearly an experienced driver of diesels too. But these new diesels are not like the older long stroke engines and can behave very differently.

Edited 7 January, 2014 by Estate Man

[PDIBK]

I'll chuck in my tuppence worth...

 

1.6 CR TDI, collected in June 12.  Now on 16700 miles.  No real issues (one instance of the flashing coil light - disappeared after I got to my destination, one flat battery after a holiday - on my drive though, one sticky window).

 

I have averaged 49mpg over that time, with a mix of driving types.  I tend to drive like I stole it on occassion (late for work meetings - economy down to 47), but equally, when the kids are in, drive sensibly and have done a few relaxed long drives, I've had up to 60.

 

These engines DO NOT like to do "old school" diesel pootling.  You need to treat it more like a petrol.  I have always found that if I ignore chasing the mpg figures, it comes to me - just relax and go.  Similarly, for the journey examples the OP placed on display, it is just too short to say "that's my economy" - a 14 minute drive? Engine's barely woken up.  They need to go for 20 minutes plus, ideally longer. Is that realistic? Maybe not, but it's how they've tuned the engine to deliver the results necessary for the EU tests (I suspect).  does it match "real world aspirations"? For some not, for others yes.

 

Another thing - how many people have really had DPF issues with a CR engine?  How many people have really had 1.4 TSI oil guzzling?  how many of these instances are just the odd few people out of tens of thousands of customers (5000+ CR Monte Carlos alone - so all Fabias, all Skodas, all VW...) who have had a problem and stuck it on a forum.

 

We run the Monte and my wife's golf Bluemotion - both 1.6 CR TDI 105 units.  Hers is on 37000 miles, averages 55+mpg, drives 400 miles a week on two journeys from our home to work.  Maybe the CR just likes relaxed cruising and not local hops to the shops, school runs or pootling - I know mine returned poor economy when it did.

 

The alternative?  Drive old-gen diesels and pollute (apparently), drive petrols and possibly never reach the economy of the CR on a bad day (although admitedly, new gen TSI and low-capacity turbo units are getting REALLY close).  the offset then is how much you will spend on fuel to offset diesel vs petrol at the pump...

[GeneralPurpose]

Yeah...totally agree PDIBK. The 1.6cr is largely trouble free but can't quite be used in the same way as the older diesels for short trips, and get good economy. The oil doesn't even get warm after 15 minutes driving in town! Engine can't give good economy like that. On a run, now that's different and it's amazing on fuel. 

[multiskoda]

To the OP, your quoted journeys seem to have reasonable MPGs given the distances and times involved. As PDIBK says, the engine needs a good amount of time to warm up.

 

After 15 minutes driving last night, mine was just under 90 degrees, so not yet up to temperature, and you'll never get decent MPG until it's warmed up. (For what it's worth, at that point in the journey, some traffic, howling wind and rain, average 15mph, I also had around 27mpg showing). By the end of my 60 mile journey (70mph), I had 59mpg showing.

 

I also see fairly variable results with mine (same engine) and I've found that in order to get best MPG it's pretty sensitive to wind, rain and speed. You won't get the quoted figures at 70mph - more like 65mph. At 70mph I get between 50 and 60 mpg depending on road and weather conditions.

 

Also turning the A/C off can make a fairly big difference I've found.

 

 

You have to treat the thing like it has a split personality. On the one hand it needs revving to keep it clean and healthy so you have to sacrifice MPG sometimes and have a 'spirited' drive. On the other hand, it's perfectly capable of returning decent MPG when nursed along like granny. Unfortunately it just doesn't deliver the best of both worlds like the old PD engines in my experience.

[eccleshill]

My two penn'orth on the 1.6 TDi.

Agree totally with those who say that this engine needs to be revved to get the best out of it.  The change-up indicator is stupid and I ignore it.  When the revs get below 1500 you can feel the vibration increasing under load - that is your DMF ironing out the lumps and taking a hammering in the process.  To get decent acceleration you need to be over 2500rpm.

 

I ran mine in by driving normally - I just avoided extended full throttle acceleration and kept the revs below 4000 for the first 1000 miles also tried to keep the revs over 2000 whenever possible.  It has used zero oil in 7500 miles from new.

 

The Roomster is less aerodynamic than the Fabia so the fuel consumption official figures are lower.  See my fuelly - every drop of fuel recorded in there.  My commute to work is around 10 miles, 25 minutes.  The engine gets up to temperature but the oil temperature is still down at 70 degrees or so.

 

It gets a 30-40 mile run at least once per week and I never thrash it until the oil temperature is up above 80 but when it is, at least once per week, I drive it like I rented it for 5-10 miles using all 4000-4500 revs.  I have found that driving gently all the time gives worse consumption than giving it some revs.

 

DPF problems?  Had the engine light on at around 6k miles - faulty exhaust sensor fixed under warranty.  I have caught the DPF regen a few times but no dramas and no warning lights.  I was nervous about DPF having read the Briskoda tales of woe.  I asked a work colleague (who has had a Yeti with the 1.6CR engine for 2yrs) if she has any problems with her DPF.  "What's a DPF?" she said.  That was enough for me!  There is an awful lot of ill-informed urban mythology about the DPF on Briskoda!!

 

I note the "bring back the PD" comments - been there, had one, give me the 1.6 CR any day!

[MarginWalker]

You might see an improvement in economy by changing your gear selection technique to keep the engine in the 'sweet spot' as much as possible. For the 1.9 PD, the sweet spot is in the 2000-2200 rpm range (might well be similar in the 1.6 CR), where the engine is running very efficiently while being in the power band for turbo shove should you wish to increase speed quickly. In a 30 mph zone I tend to stay in 3rd gear, only changing to 4th at around 40 mph. In most situations I don't change to top gear until close to 50 mph  - the engine never seems very happy in 5th at 40 mph, when fuel consumption (as calculated by the trip computer) is higher than if I stay in 4th gear.I definitely get better economy by matching gears to keep the engine in the rev range where it's happiest.

[Jon Dimond]

Thanks for everyone's input . I'll try and answer all of the suggestions and questions as best I can. 

 

When we bought the car, we traded in an Ibiza ecomotive, 2010 model which was 18 months old and had 50k on it. Now that was a hateful car to be honest, it wasn't so much the build quality but the lack of thought that had gone into the design. The engine was the 1.2 3 pot diesel, which you had to rag everywhere to get it to go anywhere. It got given death most of the time and often returned 65mpg. So we weren't really strangers to modern small capacity CR diesels. We got the 105ps Fabia thinking that it would be a similar engine, but a smoother and torquier 4 pot. 

 

When we first got it, we drove it around in a similar manner to the Seat, although maybe a little more carefully whilst it was still new. The MPG figures were disappointing compared to the Seat, but this was a bigger engine, bigger car and not an 'eco' model. We were however still expecting to see 60mpg combined, driving sensibly. So gradually we started to experiment with different driving styles, some like old school diesels, some like those suggested on here and everything inbetween. Very little got us over 50mpg. 

 

At various times when it's been back for serving and repairs we have mentioned it to the garage and they insist that there isn't a problem. The last time we went there, the service manager took me out for a drive in it, pootled around in an already hot car along a country road and got high 60s. He drove it like an old diesel, VERY light throttle input, almost no revs and at around 40mpg. Now every now and then I can get it to deliver some respectable figures, but there is no rhyme or reason as to why. I felt a little embarrassed. He's agreed to run around in it for a few days, including cold starts etc to see what it's like. 

 

The thing i don't understand is, that the 'official' figures are calculated from cold and the urban cycle is only about 2 miles long, so there is no chance that it's going to be up to operating temperature in that time. I appreciate that they start in 25-30 degree heat, but even so. This afternoon I made the same 10 mile trip out to the farm and again I still got 37mpg after 10 miles. so to get to 60mpg I'd have to average 85mpg for the next 10 miles? Frankly that's preposterous.

 

Anyway, on your suggestions I took it for a hoon about last night, I went up the motorway at around 70(ish) in 4th for 20 miles. I got about 50mpg on this run. I then reset MPG1 and did another 10 miles on the motorway at 60mpg in 4th, so around 2250rpm and around the bypass, giving it some decent acceleration off the roundabouts. Then back through town, although it was late so no traffic. This got me 62mpg and the car felt a little smoother. Oh and it was cold, VERY windy and raining. 

 

My overall MPG for today, with mainly A road driving and a few stops was 47mpg again. I drove higher up the rev range, changing gear a bit later instead of tootling around. I also popped a bottle of injector cleaner magic potion in there, although it probably hasn't had a chance to do anything yet. 

 

The car feels like it has NOTHING below 2000rpm, it won't even maintain speed on the flat unless you give it a lot of throttle, it feels like there is just no power at all, almost as if there is something holding it back tbh. This pretty much renders 5th gear useless, as I'd have to break the speed limit to get it in the power band I have. The book says that peak torque is 250nm from 1500-2500 rpm, and as it has a variable vane turbo, this should be a pretty much flat torque curve.

 

My mum had a 75ps 1.6CR Polo and now has a 105ps 1.6cr Audi A1. I've driven both of them quite a lot. I drove the A1 last week for the day and it's just a totally different car, it feels like it wants to go. 

[Rooted]

Forget the Official figures, they have nothing to do with Vehicles & driving on roads.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/fuel-consumption-statement

 

http://dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp

http://dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/exhaust-emissions-testing.asp