Fabia VRS oil consumption..........What is acceptable?

[Jabozuma]

The goddam handbook !!!

 

I'm after a reasoned technical arguement here to explain the route VW took.

 

Hmm, reasoned argument... a tube from the top of the engine going into the sump and terminating there. Through that tube a thin strip with plastic cap and a pull eye is inserted. It is of an appropriate length to correctly indicate the level of the oil in the sump. Whether engine is hot, cold or whatever has no bearing on the working of this control device at all, unless we are living in an alternative physics universe or the dipstick is made of an alloy which changes severe thermal expansion/contraction properties and therefore hot or cold dipping makes a difference. As, disregarding anything else, empirical evidence shows this is not the case. Oil does not change its volume with temperature in any significant way for the purposes of dipping. So temperature makes no difference whatsoever as far as the "working" of a dipstick is concerned.

What does make a difference is the design of the engine and what happens inside the engine with oil when it is pressurised. Dip too early and oil did not have enough time to drop down into the sump and measurement will be wrong, too low leading to overfilling. Dip cold and you will always have all the oil back in the sump for accurate measurement. 

[Rooted]

So now we need to get to why not cold dips. As described by the VWG Manufacturers in the Owners Manuals ??

 

Same Engine, Blocks, Sumps, Heads, Filters, Filter Housings. Much the Same Oil Grades & Quantites.

Sold in many World Regions,

Different Climates, Temperatures, Altitudes, Environments, Barometric Pressures etc.

 

I have no idea as to the Answer why checked at Operating Temperature rather than as a Cold Check with a Engine not Started.

(& no Idea why such cr4p quality of a Stamped Dipstick in a Twincharger. STILL.) 

Edited 5 August, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

I think it is to do with practicalities. If you are checking at the petrol station every few fills as advised in the manual you need to wait a little bit to make sure all the oil is depressurised and back in the sump for accurate measurement. As I know and checked if you dip right after switching the engine off dipstick is dry.... 

[SeaGoat]

I think it is to do with practicalities. If you are checking at the petrol station every few fills as advised in the manual you need to wait a little bit to make sure all the oil is depressurised and back in the sump for accurate measurement. As I know and checked if you dip right after switching the engine off dipstick is dry.... 

I check my oil level once a week, on a weekend morning, using the dipstick. I rarely fill up with fuel more often than that and I know that all the oil will have returned to the sump overnight. Frankly I can't see what all the fuss is about?

[Jabozuma]

Me neither...

[Big Sheep]

Hmm, reasoned argument... a tube from the top of the engine going into the sump and terminating there. Through that tube a thin strip with plastic cap and a pull eye is inserted. It is of an appropriate length to correctly indicate the level of the oil in the sump.

 

I detect a little bit of irony there

 

We are of course talking about why VW calibrated the stick for a hot dip.

 

 

So now we need to get to why not cold dips. As described by the VWG Manufacturers in the Owners Manuals ??

 

I have no idea as to the Answer why checked at Operating Temperature rather than as a Cold Check with a Engine not Started.

 

Me neither.

 

 

If you are checking at the petrol station every few fills as advised in the manual you need to wait a little bit to make sure all the oil is depressurised and back in the sump for accurate measurement.

This is the problem. Few other cars require the oil level to be checked so frequently!

 

 

Frankly I can't see what all the fuss is about?

Nothing really, it's only a dip stick but I guaranty the discussion isn't over yet.......     

[StirlingMG]

Well now, I've not been here for a while (busy busy busy) but the latest on my Mother's VRS is it went in for a week & a half & came out with the breather pipe mod & surprise surprise it's still using excessive amounts of oil..........................again we are monitoring this over a few miles/weeks to see how it goes

[StirlingMG]

Oh and on the subject of dipsticks, a driver put a defect in for his vehicle "Dipstick not registering change in oil level" well surely that means there's no change in oil level then

[vrskeith]

Sterling good to hear fromyou again.

 

At least you are in the Skoda process.

 

Hope that yo can present it soon for the 2nd test and have a successful outcome and a new engine replacement soon.

[StirlingMG]

Sterling good to hear fromyou again.

 

At least you are in the Skoda process.

 

Hope that yo can present it soon for the 2nd test and have a successful outcome and a new engine replacement soon.

Been busy on the MG Rover forums lately, pushing my services, that & chatting up a bird on the Volvo forums.

 

My mother would have been over the moon if this mod had sorted her trouble but it's only slowed it down.................still excessive at over 1/2 a litre for 400 miles

[Furbytom]

Been busy on the MG Rover forums lately, pushing my services, that & chatting up a bird on the Volvo forums.

 

My mother would have been over the moon if this mod had sorted her trouble but it's only slowed it down.................still excessive at over 1/2 a litre for 400 miles

At least you weren't chatting up a bird who was pushing her 'services' lol...

[StirlingMG]

At least you weren't chatting up a bird who was pushing her 'services' lol...

I'd have had more success

[Furbytom]

I'd have had more success

Haha love it

[lordsummit]

Sadly, the breather mod didn't fix mine. Touching wood the new engine seems good so far

[OzFabia]

Has anyone heard of oil-use problems with the 118kw (160bhp?) TSI motor? Are there any mechanical changes between that and the 132kw/178bhp motor which would account for all the oil disappearing?

Edited 11 August, 2014 by OzFabia

[Rooted]

Yes i have heard of the Problems with the 118 kW engines, and they were different issues.

 

This article is handy for the information on the different engines and engine codes.

http://adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/208161-post-by-revo-ref-known-14tsi-faults

Edited 11 August, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[tonyfvrs]

The manual says oil consumption may be as great as 0.5 litres / 1000km, or 0.87pts / 621miles.  So both of my vRS's have done slightly better than that, so I don't feel I have any cause for complaint, or that Skoda should be expected to do anything about it.  It is a payback for extracting 190hp from 1400cc's.

It costs me about £47/year in oil, so I check regularly, put the oil in and really enjoy driving the car.

[Rooted]

That is the best way to think of it.

 

They do say they may use as much as 0.5 litres for 1000 km, for every engine though, be it 60, 69, 86, 105, 180 ps.  So really they are just taking the pith.

[Ally_bassman]

The manual says oil consumption may be as great as 0.5 litres / 1000km, or 0.87pts / 621miles.  So both of my vRS's have done slightly better than that, so I don't feel I have any cause for complaint, or that Skoda should be expected to do anything about it.  It is a payback for extracting 190hp from 1400cc's.

It costs me about £47/year in oil, so I check regularly, put the oil in and really enjoy driving the car.

 

I also live by this opinion.

 

I wonder if VAG had said from the start "look at our amazing little 1.4TSI, extracting 180bhp from a 1.4 4 cylinder engine. A by product of this technology is a slight oil use because blah blah blah"

 

Peoples opinions would have changed, and they have had less grief from people wanting replacement engines as they knew what they were buying into.

 

Heck I still would have bought one.

[Rooted]

 'Nail on Head'.

 

But then many buy the Twinchargers with a Minimum 180 ps. and just drive them at the UK NSL's. and it does not matter that 180 ps is available.

at 70 or 80 mph they are using the same output as a 69 ps car or the 105 ps car.

Infact the engine is not stressed, you are using only what output is required, you can break the Motorway Speed limit and never go above 3,500 rpm

 

So really the fact that the Majority of the Engines use very little oil, and that some use lots because of Quality Control Failures,

& that many Failing Engines are driven totally normally,

means that the Volkswagen Group can not be excused for the way people get treated that bought their product only to find that the VWG made mistakes.

 

The VWG just need to make statements,

'we made mistakes, we have tried to rectify them, if we failed sorry, it is our mistake, we will try harder.'

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK

[vrskeith]

Been busy on the MG Rover forums lately, pushing my services, that & chatting up a bird on the Volvo forums.

 

My mother would have been over the moon if this mod had sorted her trouble but it's only slowed it down.................still excessive at over 1/2 a litre for 400 miles

When are you in for the 2nd test. 

 

As in my experience,if the engine fails the 2nd test the engine can be placed on order within 24 hours and installed within a month max. 

 

So that's not long for your Mum, being able to have confidence driving a New (recon) CTHE spec engine.

 

So come on SterlingMG, get your arse in gear and get it sorted for MUM!!

[Sittingbull]

Afternoon folks, just a quick update to advise that our wee car went in first thing this morning for the first oil consumption test.

 

Arrangements for the test have varied slightly from initially agreed parameters, due to our work commitments the test will now be carried out over a two week period rather than a specific 300 mile range. Skoda UK happy to go with this as the car will cover a minimum of 300 miles and will replicate normal usage whereas the initial 5 day turnaround simply wouldn't have. It's likely the actual mileage may be closer to the mythical figure of 621 miles mentioned on here previously.

 

Have to compliment Caroline from Skoda UK for her help so far, Caroline phoned this morning to ensure our car had been taken in and that a courtesy car had been provided, and to gather details from me about what I had been told of the process, and to confirm the arrangements moving forward. Caroline also to call back tomorrow once she has technical report available so hopefully I will find out more tomorrow. It was an interesting conversation particularly when it came to discussing the dealer handling the work on behalf of Skoda UK. It may not be pertinent or appropriate at this stage to convey what was said but suffice to say it was another chap at the dealers who handled us this morning, and he was very able and very pleasant to deal with, chap by the name of David.

 

I have now emailed details of all top ups and miles covered to Skoda UK for their records, and will be giving a copy to this chap at the dealers as well.

 

Hopefully we are getting somewhere, I will update as situation goes on.

 

Richard

[vrskeith]

Richard good to hear that you're now in the technical test loop.

 

It will be interesting following your progress through the process.

 

It will also be of interest to compare your experience with StirlingMG,who is currently one stage a head of you in the process , with his Mum's car.

Edited 14 August, 2014 by vrskeith

[Sittingbull]

Further to the wee update I can now confirm that the test period has reverted to the original "to be done on distance of 350 miles" so that the technicians and Skoda are able to apply consistency to the way they carry out these tests. Kind of makes sense to ensure all garages treat the test the same way, if indeed it can be guaranteed that this happens.

 

I'm following StirlingMG situation with interest.

[StirlingMG]

When are you in for the 2nd test. 

 

As in my experience,if the engine fails the 2nd test the engine can be placed on order within 24 hours and installed within a month max. 

 

So that's not long for your Mum, being able to have confidence driving a New (recon) CTHE spec engine.

 

So come on SterlingMG, get your arse in gear and get it sorted for MUM!!

We're back to monitoring at the moment.....................first 5 or 600 miles was shocking (over a litre) but dipped last night after 2 weeks & 216 miles & level wasn't bad, not up to the mark but didn't warrant a top up, so will keep an eye on it & if it's no good it'll be going back. She has already spoken to the dealers again so they know about it. Funnily enough there's a VRS parks just round the corner from my place & he drove past last night so I accosted him & asked if he was having any trouble to which he replied he was & the dealer told him to let it run until the light comes on again & then take it in......................I advised him to ignore that advice & do what we are doing & dip it once a week & note the usage per mile