Very strange clutch issue, any help appreciated please

[JohnSTV6]

Anyone that can shed any light on this will definitely be owed a beer or 10 lol

Had an issue with the clutch for a good few month now, will try my best to explain it in detail. But please bare with me lol

If I start the car I sometimes can't get it to go into 1st gear, with clutch peddle still pressed down a little wiggle between 3rd and 4th normally (but not always) then allows it to go in. Once it's in gear, if I just lift the peddle the tiniest amount from the floor it bites and is trying to be off.

Even if I press the peddle back down I can not get the clutch to disengage again, only way to do that is to allow the car to get to rolling speed of 1st effectively letting the peddle all the way up and then pressing it back down.

It also does exactly the same thing when putting it into reverse.

Also if I am coming to a junction/traffic lights etc and change down the gears to 1st, and almost come to a stop. The point where you are sort of creeping with the clutch in as you are not sure if you are about to stop or not if you know what I mean. It takes the bite up on its own and engages the gear so I can not pull it out of 1st no matter how hard I push the peddle down. I have to basically yank it out of gear and can feel that it is still engaged as I do it.

Sometimes while I'm driving along changing up and down through the gears, the clutch peddle will not fully return to the top, and I have to hook my foot under it to make it return to the normal up position.

I changed the duel mass flywheel and clutch and concentric slave cylinder for Sachs ones a few months ago and the problem appeared to be resolved, but then a few months later it started happening again. But got so bad I couldn't change gear at all, the garage that done the work changed everything again (flywheel, clutch, concentric slave) under warranty saying that it must have been a defective part. But this time I also changed the master cylinder (fitted genuine skoda part) . Again the problem appeared to be resolved.

But 4 weeks later (3-4000 miles) and it's all starting again, exactly the same issues as before.

It's booked in with the garage today to try replacing just the concentric slave with a genuine skoda one instead of the Sachs one that was fitted 4 weeks ago, as there is no sign of anything else to try.

There is no apparent leaks, everything is bone dry. And I was thinking was it a problem with the gear box or something else, but it's strange how every time the 4 components of clutch, flywheel, slave and master are changed the problem is resolved for a couple of thousand miles.

I appreciate that this is a massive read, and if anyone bothers to read it all without falling asleep half way through and can help in any way if will be massively great full

Thanks

John

[JohnSTV6]

Sorry I should have put the car is a 2.0 PD 140 sport with 6 speed manual gear box

Edited 18 July, 2014 by JohnSTV6

[nick74]

There have been 2 or 3 cases of this with 2.0 PD140 6 speed gearboxes mentioned on here over the years and it transpired it was a gearbox fault preventing the clutch from releasing properly.

It's worth doing a search on here as I remember someone describing how a gearbox specialist fixed the problem, I think by replacing a bearing in the box.

Be warned though that some people had main dealers try and tell them it was excessive crankshaft endfloat and they would need a complete new engine, when the real cause was the gearbox!

[JohnSTV6]

Cheers nick, appreciate the input.

I did try searching but couldn't find anything that described my problem exactly.

Question though, if it is the gearbox, then why when I change the clutch, flywheel, and cylinders does the problem go away for a couple of thousand miles?

[nick74]

It took some finding, but this was the thread I was thinking of;

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/223127-octavia-mkii-gearboxclutch/#entry2642637

 

That mentions it being caused by the gearbox casing wearing away and can be cured with shims.

 

 

Not sure why it would go away for a few thousand miles, perhaps a brand new clutch & flywheel have just enough clearance to overcome the effect of the play in the gearbox shaft?

[JohnSTV6]

Awesome Nick, thanks very much for that.

It looks like he has had exactly the same problem I have and has been down the same path trying to fix it. I will take my iPad to the garage with me this morning and get my mechanic to have a read of that thread.

[Guest]

Wouldn't the simpler/cheaper issue be a cobbled master cylinder seal?

[nick74]

The OP has changed the master cylinder though and the fault is still present.

[JohnSTV6]

I've dropped car off at the garage and showed my mechanic the thread you dug up Nick, he agreed that it made sense and he didn't feel comfortable that changing the cylinders again was going to do anything at all.

He called someone from a local gearbox place and he said what to check for once the box is out.

I'll pop back round this afternoon when I walk round the school for the bairns, will update the thread on findings and what course of action we are taking.

But it looks like a few unplanned days off work (taxi driver) and watching the open championship lol

Edited 18 July, 2014 by JohnSTV6

[JohnSTV6]

Small update, it's bad news. Or possibly good news, in a sense of I might be actually getting to the bottom of the problem.

The gearbox is out and there is apparently 5+mm of play, waiting to hear back from local transmission place either tomorrow or Monday to see how bad it really is though.

[nick74]

Thanks for the update. How many miles has the car done?

[JohnSTV6]

180,000 Nick, but it is a taxi. Although it is my personal car, and no one else drives it.

It still has to put up with thousands of gear changes every day, but I do look after it and don't drive it hard.

I guess it's done well to get to this mileage really.

[JohnSTV6]

Another little update, guy has stripped the box down and found a few faults.

There was excessive play on the shaft caused by a failed bairing, and the gearbox casing was knackered.

Going to cost £420 to sort it.

I should have it back tomorrow afternoon, or at latest first thing Thursday morning.

Will update again then what it is like.

But if I still have the original issues, it will be accidentally getting left on the top of the beach banks with the handbrake off.

[JohnSTV6]

Update, and fingers crossed problem resolved.

Had the gear box rebuilt, was a lot of movement on the first motion shaft.

I've done about 80 miles now, and as yet there has been no repeat of my original problem.

Total cost for rebuild and removing and re fitting etc came to £540

I will update again in a few weeks once I've got a few thousand miles on.

Owe a huge thanks to Nick for dragging that thread up from the depths, and to the OP of that thread.

[BobbyVRS]

JohnSTV6, thanks for your detailed description of the problem you were seeing as I have a 56 plate 97000 mile 2.0tdi Octavia Sport 140 and it has had this issue, amongst a host of others, since I bought it over a year ago. It manifests in strange ways, if you drop the clutch to pull up to a stop it suddenly bites and flies forward until you completely depress (can happen in reverse too when parking which is concerning) and then repress the pedal again. Also is very difficult to get into first and reverse sometimes. Other times drives fine, no slipping even under hard acceleration. My mechanic is a decent chap, knows his onions and has bled the hydraulics twice now to see if the issue resolved, both times it comes back so is suggesting replacing the slave cylinder and clutch whilst he is there as most like needs refreshing anyway. Think he quoted £600 with labour and having read this thread amongst others it might not solve the problem. Will show him your thread when I see him and see what he thinks. West Yorkshire Transmissions which is cited in the link nick74 kindly provided aren't hugely far from me in Manchester so if my mechanic isn't comfortable with it will drop them a line. Will keep you posted as hopefully a few people evidencing this issue will save others time and money. Report back in a week or so.

[BobbyVRS]

West yorkshire transmissions weren't answering as still Xmas hols, ended up taking it to AGC Bolton as more local. Chap called Andy there will take it apart and diagnose the issue, will know more on Tuesday but was suggesting around 550 Inc Vat if it needs a clutch, master and slave cylinders and the dual mass flywheel replacing. He may not find this to be the issue though, let's see.

[BobbyVRS]

So got the clutch, master cylinder, slave cylinder and dmf replaced as these were pretty worn and the gearbox needed a new mount and some shimming as there was some movement. £680 all in which was an unwelcome bill just after Christmas but seemed comparatively good value considering other quotes. The car drives beautifully now, like new. You could probably just do the gearbox mount and shimming bit to resolve this particular issue but my had 100k on the clock and used to tow so probably had more wear than most to the other parts. Hope this helps.