Urgent help required. Timing chain issues, please read!

[Nobafett]

Vehicle in question - Sep 2009 Octavia vRS 2.0 tsi. 45k miles. Full service history.

Some of you may have read a previous thread of mine from a few weeks ago where I thought my turbo had gone, car was low on power and making a screeching noise.

Well, it's worse than that. It was diagnosed by the VAG specialist I use as being the timing chain. Although car was still running (barely I hasten to add), it appeared that the chain had slipped and was well out of sync. Rather than have my mechanic start any work, I had it towed to my local dealer in Exeter where I bought the car new.

Car was left standing until Thursday last week where it was finally looked at. I was called to confirm that it was a timing chain issue and that the whole engine needed replacing!!

We discussed the goodwill from Skoda UK and my dealer said they would make contact and find out. I didn't hear anything, so on Monday morning I called my dealer who said they were still waiting to hear from Skoda. They had already copied and forwarded a copy of my service history to Skoda UK. I'll point out now that I never had the car serviced with Skoda as I found them to be unprofessional, rude and pretty incompetent. The car does have a full service history however, I used a local VAG specialist called Volkscraft in Exeter. Matt is certainly well known on here and a former Seat Master Technician. He has done all the work on my car and I wouldn't take it anywhere else.

To try and hurry things up I contacted Skoda UK myself on Monday and started a case. I explained everything in as much detail as I think they could understand and waited for the call back.

I received a call back today to be told that I would be receiving zero goodwill contribution from Skoda as, due to me using a different garage for servicing, I was not a loyal customer and they were not obliged to help me. I was pretty gobsmacked to say the least. I tried to argue my case but it was clear they weren't going to budge.

So, as far as I am concerned and from all the research I've done, this is what I understand so far.

- The timing chain/tensioner is a not serviceable part.

- The tensioner is known to be a weak part by VAG and has been revised 3 times and is on its 4th iteration.

- Based on my build date, my car would have the 1st tensioner.

- Volkswagen and Skoda have both released TPI's or similar acknowledging the fault/weakness.

If that's correct, then as far as I am concerned, I am covered under 'The Sale of Goods Act', regardless of whether or not I had it serviced at Skoda. There is a faulty part that Skoda knew about and did nothing to rectify, therefore I am not liable for any costs.

I have already started legal proceedings and am quite looking forward to a little court battle. However, whilst that's being sorted I would like to try a few different avenues. I'm hoping a few of you on here can help? These are some of the things I am after if available.

- Part numbers and dates that the tensioners were revised.

- Email or contact numbers for directors/senior staff at Skoda UK (I'm sure they would be interested to hear about this)

- People who have had the same technical issues and had a goodwill contribution despite having service history outside of the dealer network.

- Anything that would be useful in proving Skoda's liability in court.

I've already had legal advice today who confirmed that, from what I had told him, I was covered under the SOGA. Unfortunately for Skoda, preparing evidence and appearing in court is part of my day job.

Many thanks to anyone who contributes.

(I am aware of the thread at the top in relation to failures, but I'm currently on holiday and the wifi access is poor to say the least, I've been struggling to load the pages at all).

[xman]

Check the brochure/website/manual that was out at the time for your car - you may need to use the "wayback machine" to access these.

 

I know that various descriptions have been printed including the words "lifetime maintainance free timing chain"

 

With that ammunition , if they don't comply, take them through the small claims court.

[brown_d9]

Skoda paid for my engine replacement in full, and I only had approximately half of the servicing done by Skoda, I did the rest myself. (dealer serviced for 40K, serviced myself for 40K)

 

You should have no problem winning that battle in court under the sales of goods act... I'm sure they will back down once they receive the court papers.

 

It does seem a shame though that the selling dealership is the one who needs taking to court, seems wrong really as they have done nothing wrong.

 

I wonder if they get any money back from Skoda if they are taken to court and lose?

Edited 31 July, 2014 by brown_d9

[fairlight5]

Good luck.

Its the main reason mine is dealer serviced. After 5 years I shall not bother.

The goodwill payment is for using skoda servicing and being a repeat customer.

You would have a case under the RMI right to repair scheme if your car was still covered by manufacturer's warranty.

As it is you have a 5 year old car with no loyalty to the manufacturer, I can't see you getting far TBH.

As far as chain and tensioner life concerned that will also be a big task to prove its a part that will last the lifetime of the vehicle.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[samuir1974]

Overall very shocking state of affairs and something i came up against with BMW Mini as a result of

their timing chain tensioner issue which at last check was on the 7th iteration and failures still seen to this day!

 

In the end a very stern letter was written offering some very simple options and that the car could be

delivered to any independent specialist centre they designate and i would have a full report done to

show that it was non-serviceable item causing the failure and infact a design flaw was evident.

 

The day after the letter was received.... MINI UK approved the repair... thankfully saved the court action etc.

[m0bov]

I don't see how you can sue Skoda as you have no contract with them. How long have you had the car for and where did you purchase it?

[motr]

If the car or cars of a certain have had issues and Skoda know/knew they had issues, surely the car wasn't fit for purpose from day one. No? It sounds like it was just a matter of time.

[m0bov]

Yes, but SOGA is against the SELLER, the retailer with whom you have a contract with.

[Nobafett]

I've had the car from new, so the SOGA covers it for the first 6 years. It's not yet 5 years old.

[Nobafett]

Skoda paid for my engine replacement in full, and I only had approximately half of the servicing done by Skoda, I did the rest myself. (dealer serviced for 40K, serviced myself for 40K)

You should have no problem winning that battle in court under the sales of goods act... I'm sure they will back down once they receive the court papers.

It does seem a shame though that the selling dealership is the one who needs taking to court, seems wrong really as they have done nothing wrong.

I wonder if they get any money back from Skoda if they are taken to court and lose?

That's interesting. I'd like to know more about your situation if possible. Age and mileage of car at time of fault. How long you had owned it for. Who authorised the repair etc etc.

I'm in the strange situation where my original dealer, are now going under a different name and the original dealers are now at a different location selling SEAT's. I'm led to believe that my case would be against them?

[DGW]

Revision dates for the timing chain tensioner and timing chain are in the thread below.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/page-14#entry3731983

[wiilydog]

you could try writing to What Car Magazine to see if they can help as Skoda UK doesn't like bad press and may change their mind if they get a bit of pressure from a car magazine

[Chris B]

Did any of the initial purchase get done with a credit card? I was under the impression that if even if a percentage was on a credit card that the full purchase was covered, under what terms etc I'm not sure, but could be another avenue to explore.

[Gti Jazz Blue]

SOGA would apply against the original selling dealership - interesting situation if they have changed franchise and address - however IMHO as long as the legal identity of the dealer is the same that is the overriding concern. Note a limited company can change its name, but the Company Number at Companies house will stay the same (I know as we have just changed our company name for sales reasons).

 

Good Luck.

[BA Baracus]

Sorry to hear of your experiences Nobafett and hope you get things back sorted as soon as possible.

 

This might appear harsh but I think the response from your dealer and Skoda UK sound reasonable and fair.

 

-  You are looking for Skoda UK to replace your engine (£5k???) under goodwill, but have not been to the dealer or network for any kind of business since buying the car 5 years ago?

 

-  Appreciate your local tech will be very competent etc and European legislation allows you to get the car serviced elsewhere but this leaves you in a sticky position when wanting to make a claim with Skoda UK

 

-  You did not allow Skoda UK to change the oil but following a catastrophic failure your first port of call is the dealer claiming a new engine?

 

-  Car is modified and has a remap, maybe just me but this just adds more reason to refuse a goodwill claim

 

-  Pursuing legal claim, expensive, lengthy and uncertain

 

Sounds like you have an uphill battle.

[Nobafett]

Thankfully I'm fully covered for legal expenses through my job, so will see where that gets me.

[DGW]

I think that you are going to need some expensive expert technical opinion to prove that your Revo Stage 2 remap has not contributed to if not caused the timing chain slip. And the fact that the standard clutch would not handle the torque of that remap points to the transmission being overloaded. I wouldn't be surprised if Skoda UK trawl through your posts to extract evidence of use to them in any court, including details of all the performance modifications you have made to the car. It is a long way off being standard.

I would like you to win your case because it might help me if my 1.8TSi decides to throw a wobbly. But I wouldn't put any money on a successful outcome. I will watch this thread with considerable interest.

[TsvRS]

I think many of your points, BA Baracus, are red herrings:

1.) It is the sale of the car that is relevant whereas subsequent purchases of products, services or any other sweeties are not. It is of no consequence how much business has been given to the dealer since the date of the original purchase as no further obligation is required.

2.) When in dispute with the dealer who sold the car then Skoda may contribute a goodwill gesture to the benefit of both parties but any claim is against the dealer. The European legislation allowing freedom as to where to service the car would be entirely pointless if the dealer could subsequently and arbitrarily dismiss any claim so I think we can safely set that point aside.

3.) The car is modified. This is more tricky but the particular problem is common to cars that are not modified and it would be extremely difficult to attribute a problem with the the timing chain to any modification (unless new cylinder head bits were fitted, perhaps). An argument for a layman would be "When the engine is going the timing chain goes at the same speed. No modification has been made to how fast the engine goes. The timing chain interacts only with components internal to the engine and no modification has been made to those components. The timing chain relies on lubrication from the engine oil which has been shown to be changed at the recommended service intervals. The timing chain itself is not a serviceable component as stated in the sales literature for the car."

 

However, I agree entirely with BA Baracus that you should not 'look forward to' a day in court - I would see going to court as the least favourable path and highly risky. A strong technical argument channelled through a competent solicitor should probably see a satisfactory resolution and you should be prepared to make some compromise to close it off comfortably rather than fighting for the last cent. I assume non-disclosure will form part of any settlement so you will probably be disallowed from telling us all what happens!

 

Really sorry for you by the way. Hope it all works out

[motr]

Does taking your car to a main dealer guarantee any goodwill gesture? From my experience, yes and no but one problem I did have I had to fight to get skoda to foot the bill 100 percent. I read many people who had to pay but after reading much about the issue with esp here, on honest John's AND don't get done get Don, they finally agreed to foot the whole bill.

Yes I had full dealer service but I found it truly astonishing how hard it was.

[Norco]

Any updates?

[Wardy-]

Regarding the original post, my 59 plate vRS TSi has just had the exact same problem last week.

 

Went to start it after work and it wouldn't turn over, had to have it recovered and towed to Skoda. Skoda confirmed the chain has stretched and new engine is needed.

 

Luckily i'm still under my extended warranty and i'll find out today about how much contribution they are going to pay. Skoda milton keynes have told me one other incident like this happened before and he got 100% coverage. Apparently they send the engine to get it rebuilt rather than replace it for a new one.

 

If they come back to me and decide that it's not all covered, i will be having a very strong word about it! Luckily for me I work with Skoda UK Head Office, so i've got contacts their who can assist me with this

[rob_e]

Regarding the original post, my 59 plate vRS TSi has just had the exact same problem last week.

 

Went to start it after work and it wouldn't turn over, had to have it recovered and towed to Skoda. Skoda confirmed the chain has stretched and new engine is needed.

 

Luckily i'm still under my extended warranty and i'll find out today about how much contribution they are going to pay. Skoda milton keynes have told me one other incident like this happened before and he got 100% coverage. Apparently they send the engine to get it rebuilt rather than replace it for a new one.

 

If they come back to me and decide that it's not all covered, i will be having a very strong word about it! Luckily for me I work with Skoda UK Head Office, so i've got contacts their who can assist me with this

 

sorry to hear that wardy - hopefully you can get it sorted under the warranty, after all that's what its there for!  Mine was sorted quickly and efficiently by the dealer with no need for argument/hassle and the replacement engine was brand new with new ancilliaries so it may not work out too bad for you in the end..  fingers crossed.

 

add your name to the list:  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

[Gti Jazz Blue]

If legal proceedings have commenced it may be that he is unable to comment - or it is possible that he has had a settlement with a legal requirement - not to comment. However a quick post to say he can't comment would be nice  :|

[Wardy-]

sorry to hear that wardy - hopefully you can get it sorted under the warranty, after all that's what its there for!  Mine was sorted quickly and efficiently by the dealer with no need for argument/hassle and the replacement engine was brand new with new ancilliaries so it may not work out too bad for you in the end..  fingers crossed.

 

add your name to the list:  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/

 

Thanks mate and there's been a bit of delay, but expecting a call back today. I've posted in that thread already and i've been added to the dreaded list haha

 

Is this just happening in Skoda vehicles or is it across the VWG Group? Surely with the amount just logged on here, it's a widespread common fault and should have had a recall to replace the chain belts!

[FLAPPERJACK7]

With those upgrades I think you have 2 hope's ... no hope and Bob Hope.