TMG Stage 1 (+ couple of mods) looong review

[newbie69]

As I had written here since a long time, the car was going to receive a stage 1 remap by APR when time allowed me to do it. Although nothing wrong with APR, due to personal and professional complications I decided to change tuning house to a greek one, TMG, that has worked a lot on the 1.4 TSI with remarkable achievements. Those guys have actually tuned a Cupra to an insane 580 bhp that does 11" dead on the 400m drag with an exit speed of 213 KM/h (although it has an LSD and most of the engine internals uprated but anyway) which I think is one the most insanely tuned 1.4 tsis in Europe, there are reports about it in tuning magazines and fora.

 

Back to my own humble vRS, before the remapping, I had already upgraded the intake with the ITG one and the plugs to NGK BKR7EIX. (Btw, the tuner asked what plugs were in the car and congratulated me when I told him about the 7s so I'm guessing they're the way to go with stage 1 cars). As posted in my other thread, the MAHA dyno I went to on very hot afternoon of 32 ° C showed 185.4 bhp and 247.1 Nm, leaving implications that on a colder day of say 15 degrees, we could have seen as high as 187-189 bhp. (I know it's in greek but I'm guessing you'll figure it out!  )

 

 

Next day, a FMIC upgrade was in line, dimensions ~ 55 x 23,5 x 6cm giving more than double the stock volume (3.9L vs ~ 8L), no good pictures of that as I only arrived in time to pick the car up when everything had been installed.

 

Finally, the remap. I was able to discuss with the tuner in person and describe exactly how I would prefer the car to be, what fuel I am and will be using etc. Taking my remarks into account he fine-tuned his "standard" stage 1 map to a slightly stronger version that would benefit from the larger IC and the 100 ron fuel and off we went for a test-drive and live data-logging. At this point I have to say there was a lot of technical explanation of how many and which values are altered that I cannot accurately reproduce but I really felt he knew his onions. I also got the impression that to ensure engine safety and optimal operation it was necessary to have access to a whole lot of values, as they did, rather than the few ones that are altered with a usual tuning box.

 

Driving cool to get the oil up to temp I was only pulling up to 2.5 - 3K and I didn't really feel something extraordinary I have to say. But eventually the oil was ready and so I was asked to make a progressive but strong pull up to the rev limiter. Again up to 3K I was not that much impressed but at ~ 3.5 it was like I was suddenly sitting in a different car. The eagerness of the car to accelerate that hard was incredible and it didn't seem as it was ever going to be tired until way past 6K. We all know the vRS pulls nice as stock, but the best part of it was to have 2nd gear at 30-40mph and just plant my foot down. This would slingshot it forward but I was soon feeling that immediate burst of power was over although the car would continue to pull past 4k although less hard. Now, the the party seems to really take off after 3.5K and just go on, it totally transforms the way you can and want to use the car, it has so much more "depth" if you can get what I mean.

 

Of course, all these feelings could have have been only due to an over-excited driver as I could easily have been so back to the dyno we went to have some proper evidence of what was actually achieved. All things taken into account (100 ron fuel in, FMIC, ITG intake we were expecting something around 215 bhp but it seems we were a bit off, here's a pic of the measurement screen taken from my phone:

 

 

227,5 BHP corrected power and ~ 320 Nm of torque was more than I could have asked for/expected. It's good that I had done a pre-map run on the same dyno (thanks SPARKLY for insisting on this!) as it is obvious that there is true 42 BHP/ 70 Nm increase before and after.

 

While waiting for the dyno guy to send me the [stock with ITG] vs. [stage 1 + ITG + FMIC] curves on the same graph, I extracted the values of both and created my own comparison graph, showing also the clear gain at each rpm. What I see is I think exactly what I felt: from ~ 3.5K rpm and on there is a constant 40+ bhp increase up to the rev limiter which makes the extra power so usable and the car so much more exciting. Even the power delivery itself is smoother than stock with no sudden outbursts whatsoever. Torque delivery has also improved - small dip at ~ 2.5K has now diasappeared)

 

 

All in all, the result and by result I mean primarily real road feeling and not values, is wonderful. The power delivery is exactly as I would have hoped for: smooth, strong and consistent. Values-wise I think getting 227.5 bhp on a hot day is very impressing and apart from the hardware upgrades I feel it has to do with the tuner's skills and the experience they have gained working on 1.4 TSIs for quite some time now. In their projects I have seen 250 and 300 bhp "everyday driving" Fabia vRS as well as the insane 580 bhp drag racing Cupra. If you happen to be in Greece (i know it's not very close) it's worth dropping a call/mail. I know they are working with cars in the EU as well, mapping and sending out the ECUs by mail, just saying...  :p

Edited 17 August, 2014 by newbie69

[Sparkly]

Awesome result Mike.

I know you thought long and hard about this.

Really glad you got such a good outcome, the IC seems a big part of the final result, that and the tuner you used, very jealous that you got a customised tune.

With this and your handling mods you must have an absolute rocket there.

Now just trust me and save up for a BBK and a ferry trip to a Brisky track day

Enjoy matey

[newbie69]

Yep, it's been on my mind since the 2nd year of ownership I think. It's funny but I think the whole remap+upgrades process has actually saved me money as I had become so used to the car to the point I was considering a faster replacement, but now the car is pulling stronger and longer making rolling acceleration/overtakes feel fantastic, it has certainly revived my enthousiasm for it. Now If I partially sort the brakes with pads, fluid and lines I think I won't be too bad for my local track.

 

Would really love attending a Brisky meeting but work obligations won't permit it I'm afraid. Unless it takes place say at the ring  :p

[nacora]

• well done Mike!!! this car is for 240+ with the exhaust :-) it will be ideal to see it on a brit t-day (much colder than greek temperatures) to see what the chech is realy about it. Concrats with your choices and let the fun begin :-)  

ps: give pain to the ppl!

[JVickery92]

I dont really know much about maps and all but would it be possible to get the map off your car and make a copy for other people to use? 

 

Or would it be different for each individual VRS? 

 

Suppose theres some sort of lock on the map anyways to stop people from doing exactly that and making copies? 

 

Very impressive gains though! If only they had a UK based quarters :( If you don't mind me asking what sort of price did you pay for the maps? Is it cheaper because its abroad? 

 

 

So many questions... 

 

Thanks

[newbie69]

Hi JVickery92, to my understanding it doesn't need to differ from vRS to vRS due to it being a different car but rather due to whatever upgrades you may have that can better support the extra power and also, the type of fuel you plan to use. Uprated plugs, intake, FMIC they all help achieve a bit more power and maintain it better than a totally stock car with just a stage 1 map on. Of course, if you are talking about a CTHE engine then that's a different thing, I have a 2011 CAVE one.

 

Making a copy of the map or even getting to it is totally out of the question, there are special software (and a bit of hardware) tools to do this job, it is not a simple OBD connection where anyone can plug a terminal to. The ECU is removed, then case is opened and two small "wires" are temporarily connected to it in order for it to communicate with the mapping software. I wouldn't go anywhere near it even if I supposedly had all the aforementioned tools.

 

If you decided to go with TMG it would be much safer to contact them and then just remove your ECU as a whole (very easy process), mail it to TMG where they'll do the map and send it back the same day AFAIK.

 

I would not like to disclose details about the price as it was a special agreement but they are generally around 30-40% cheaper than any UK/EU tuners. This stands also for the intercooler/exhaust specialists and that was another reason I decided to do everything there.

 

 

 

• well done Mike!!! this car is for 240+ with the exhaust :-) it will be ideal to see it on a brit t-day (much colder than greek temperatures) to see what the chech is realy about it. Concrats with your choices and let the fun begin :-)  

ps: give pain to the ppl!

 

 

Lol, you know better! But honestly, the tuner said the same regarding an exhaust ugprade (240-245) and given the fact he is rather conservative in his estimations I see it going even a bit higher... I have to stop thinking about it though 

Edited 18 August, 2014 by newbie69

[JVickery92]

Hi JVickery92, to my understanding it doesn't need to differ from vRS to vRS due to it being a different car but rather due to whatever upgrades you may have that can better support the extra power and also, the type of fuel you plan to use. Uprated plugs, intake, FMIC they all help achieve a bit more power and maintain it better than a totally stock car with just a stage 1 map on. Of course, if you are talking about a CTHE engine then that's a different thing, I have a 2011 CAVE one.

Making a copy of the map or even getting to it is totally out of the question, there are special software (and a bit of hardware) tools to do this job, it is not a simple OBD connection where anyone can plug a terminal to. The ECU is removed, then case is opened and two small "wires" are temporarily connected to it in order for it to communicate with the mapping software. I wouldn't go anywhere near it even if I supposedly had all the aforementioned tools.

If you decided to go with TMG it would be much safer to contact them and then just remove your ECU as a whole (very easy process), mail it to TMG where they'll do the map and send it back the same day AFAIK.

I would not like to disclose details about the price as it was a special agreement but they are generally around 30-40% cheaper than any UK/EU tuners. This stands also for the intercooler/exhaust specialists and that was another reason I decided to do everything there.

Lol, you know better! But honestly, the tuner said the same regarding an exhaust ugprade (240-245) and given the fact he is rather conservative in his estimations I see it going even a bit higher... I have to stop thinking about it though

Thanks for the great reply!! Sounds like it's almost worth a 'holiday'...

[Jabozuma]

I must admit that I cannot recall seeing better graphs for any remap anywhere, they are just beautiful! Those guys at TMG know their stuff!!!

No wonder you described your mapped performance in such superlatives, congrats! Those curves are truly splendid!

[Th3Grinch]

Is the intercooler made by a well known brand? Can you release a price for that? Still looking for alternatives.

[newbie69]

I must admit that I cannot recall seeing better graphs for any remap anywhere, they are just beautiful! Those guys at TMG know their stuff!!!

No wonder you described your mapped performance in such superlatives, congrats! Those curves are truly splendid!

 

Indeed, the power delivery is what I like the best about it. Although I have no clue about what other tuners do, from what I understood discussing with the guy I think their difference lies in the software they use and the parameters they have access to.

 

Is the intercooler made by a well known brand? Can you release a price for that? Still looking for alternatives.

 

The IC is not made by a well known brand but was provided by a greek exhaust specialist. I wondered whether it was worth going for something more "branded" (and 3-4 times the price) but my conclusion after various related threads on 1.4 tsi (sciroccos, cupras etc.) was that the temp improvement over stock was to a very large extent due to the larger volume and not due to a sophisticated design so I went for this no-name solution and as you see it didn't disappoint at all. Actually, this exhaust/TBE/IC specialist may be unknown outside Athens/Greece but his work is much proven there so I trusted him as well. Imho, the most internationally known brands are ridiculously overcharging for their FMIC but in this business you pay for the reputation as well I guess. I paid 250£ installation included which is almost 1/2 of the price compared to what popular brands are asking for just the IC. Now that I think about it, I lost a good chance to upgrade the exhaust system as well at a similarly bargain price but I wanted to go one step at a time.

Edited 19 August, 2014 by newbie69

[Sparkly]

Yep, it's been on my mind since the 2nd year of ownership I think. It's funny but I think the whole remap+upgrades process has actually saved me money as I had become so used to the car to the point I was considering a faster replacement, but now the car is pulling stronger and longer making rolling acceleration/overtakes feel fantastic, it has certainly revived my enthousiasm for it. Now If I partially sort the brakes with pads, fluid and lines I think I won't be too bad for my local track.

 

Would really love attending a Brisky meeting but work obligations won't permit it I'm afraid. Unless it takes place say at the ring  :p

 

I think with brakes done you will be more than ready for your local track, I dare say even without previous experience you have a healthy chance of going out and embarassing a lot of other marques "performance" offerings.

 

Indeed, the power delivery is what I like the best about it. Although I have no clue about what other tuners do, from what I understood discussing with the guy I think their difference lies in the software they use and the parameters they have access to.

 

 

The IC is not made by a well known brand but was provided by a greek exhaust specialist. I wondered whether it was worth going for something more "branded" (and 3-4 times the price) but my conclusion after various related threads on 1.4 tsi (sciroccos, cupras etc.) was that the temp improvement over stock was to a very large extent due to the larger volume and not due to a sophisticated design so I went for this no-name solution and as you see it didn't disappoint at all. Actually, this exhaust/TBE/IC specialist may be unknown outside Athens/Greece but his work is much proven there so I trusted him as well. Imho, the most internationally known brands are ridiculously overcharging for their FMIC but in this business you pay for the reputation as well I guess. I paid 250£ installation included which is almost 1/2 of the price compared to what popular brands are asking for just the IC. Now that I think about it, I lost a good chance to upgrade the exhaust system as well at a similarly bargain price but I wanted to go one step at a time.

 

Mike, I have egged you on for a while over PM, so I will do the same now

 

From where you are on your tune the exhaust is simply a physical restriction, from the software side I am sure someone like TMG would certainly have some tricks up their sleeve with regards optimisation but my understanding is that Stage 2 doesn't alter dramatically the map, they code out the EML for the perceived lack of a cat ( if 200 cell cat).  The majority of the gains simply come through the better flow.  You needn't view this as a big step up in tuning, other than cost of course, it may even be healthier for the car.

 

With all that said, you have been very patient, done a truck load of research and come out with the best Stage 1+ Result on this engine that I have seen, so your way clearly gives results.

 

I await your big turbo conversion with baited breath :yes:

[newbie69]

I await your big turbo conversion with baited breath :yes:

 

What's going on here, have you hacked my computer and checked my brwosing/search history??  :p  But seriously, exhaust-wise, I think the TBE upgrade will only come as a natural step forward at some point, given what's already done. But the more I read the more I realise it's past that stage that serious tuning starts. That doesn't necessarily mean I will want to go down that road for an everyday car though.

 

Brake mods are next in line but it will take a while before I do anything with them as holidays are now over plus this year they have been overly expensive, lol

Edited 20 August, 2014 by newbie69

[Rooted]

Bumped for a new member.

[DarrellGB]

Great write up and shows the benefits of a custom map when adding mods.

[Ant-Vrs]

Wow, what a result, I am hoping of about 230 from mine next year. I will have the decat and full exhaust to add to it aswell.

I wish they was a lot closer to home.

[newbie69]

Speaking of the devil, I just happened to be out today with Torque app, trying to quantify that remap to real-world accelerations.

 

I am hesitating to give exact figures because I got some slightly inconsistent readings (OBD speed vs GPS speed were not always on par) so I will come back on this (my plan is to get a cam recording the actual dash).

 

I timed accelerations which probably make more sense to people used in kmh rather mph but anyway, the mean values of what I measured where:

 

80-120 kmh: 3.5 - 3.7s   This time is amazing compared to what other much stronger cars do between these speeds. It is also the speed (80 kmh) where the car just instantly bursts forward without spinning whatsoever.

60-160 kmh: 12.5 - 12.8s  That's a more fair index of a car's power as there's enough time for stronger cars to show what they can do. A stock vRS does this between 14 - 14.5s so a great improvement here too.

 

I haven't yet found a safe place to do a 0-100 kmh run so I can't report on that although the way the car accelerates I have a strong feeling there might be a change of the first digit of the time which as stock was 6.7s, though on a different area.

 

I wanted to do this since a long time in order to see how torque and power values translated into real-world performance (I m not at all all about absolute bhp/Nm values, these only tell half the truth imho) and the figures have totally backed up the feeling I had. Acceleration-wise, from what I have timed so far the car seems to be in the 250-280 bhp performance league (obviously I mean as stock: Focus ST, Megane RS etc.). I know it maybe sound too much so I don't know whether the DSG does a lot of magic here or the TSI has in general the upper hand in power delivery against other engines of similar power but the feeling and time data seem to agree very much in this one. Now If I could only spare another 1K for exhaust sorting...  :p

[sharkrider]

come over to GB next year for the vRS II meet at santa pod strip

[newbie69]

Would love to if it was feasible but.... Too many miles I'm afraid!

[sharkrider]

Would love to if it was feasible but.... Too many miles I'm afraid!

give over its only france! lol.. when we did the ring trip in sept, I drove all the way back from the eifel mountains in Germany to the lake district (may as well be Scotland!) in one go! :p

 

make a weekend of it like we are!

[newbie69]

More North-East now I'm afraid, try Scandinavia! Don't doubt it would be a great event, I've been here for 3+ years ,I almost feel I know personally some of the members!

[pearce_jj]

Re exhaust; might be worth reading carefully that thread on the seat Cupra forum about the Twin charger, before committing to anything.

Good gains posted here though. I find in practice that cars like Audi A3 TDi can often prove more than a match for the VRS in stock form, I wonder how much of a gap this would open up.

Edited 18 November, 2014 by pearce_jj

[Rooted]

Really,

More than a match in what way , Acceleration or better economy?

 

Which particular Audi A3 TDI if it is in acceleration to over the National Speed Limits, 

or say from 30 - 70 mph?

 

the 3.0l TDI with 245ps certainly gets a shift on.

The 184 ps does not stay with a Twincharger.

 

george

Edited 18 November, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[newbie69]

Re exhaust; might be worth reading carefully that thread on the seat Cupra forum about the Twin charger, before committing to anything.

Good gains posted here though. I find in practice that cars like Audi A3 TDi can often prove more than a match for the VRS in stock form, I wonder how much of a gap this would open up.

 

Funny that you mention the A3 TDI really because there were just so many of those near where I was commuting (that and 320d's) and every time I happened to come across someone feeling too quick, even if he had an initial relatively strong pull, it only lasted too short and it always ended with him looking smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror. If anything, the vRS has some of the best rolling acceleration of its class (and not only its class). Especially, putting your right foot down at anything between 30-50 mph it will just fly ahead, and I mean in stock form obviously (remapped it just transforms to something else.). What I mean is it matches or out-performs accelerations from engines that are well above 200 bhp and not that heavier than the vRS, that is confirmed both from official tests and my own experience so I find hard to believe the cars you mentioned can really be a match for it.

 

One thing I have noticed though which may give a false impression is its power delivery is so linear and, to some, un-inspiring, there are no silly screams or hesitations followed by bursts etc. you slam the gas and it just starts to go and go and you're doing 120 mph before you know it. It is hard to tell exactly how fast you are accelerating without an external reference and that's why fellow road users can prove handy!

Edited 18 November, 2014 by newbie69

[32KOFDATA]

   

[newbie69]

I wonder how much of a gap this would open up.

 

Re this, all that I can say after an a 800 km trip through the German autoban (  :rock:  )  is that after being able to follow them comfortably, I got several 240+  bhp German premium models to eventually move to the middle lane allowing me to overtake...  Of course, if we had continued running all the way up to the speed limiter (actually: their speed limiter, I did hit mine couple of times to verify my tuner's words about setting it at 250 kmh for engine protection) they would start to slowly disappear as their extra power would eventually show its teeth but how often can you do such speeds safely and legally? Most people kept it to 200-220 kmh steady anyway. The acceleration on the other hand, is something much more usable and enjoyable than a crazy top speed that is achieved after some time. As I wanted to test the car and its new performance I wasn't even going too fast until I saw someone coming fast through my rear view mirror. I kept at the middle lane at ~140-150 kmh and once they were past me, I was pulling my left indicator and the left paddle 2-3 times consecutively and I would go from 140 to 200 kmh catching them in almost no time. Given the cars I came across (A5 3.0 TDI, 328i, 330d, TT-S) it was pretty impressive, especially if you compare those against a vRS not just in terms of power but as a whole.

Edited 18 November, 2014 by newbie69