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First Impressions - Mk1 Fabia VRS - SE


SEVrs

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Should really have introduced myself in the Introduction section but thought I'd cover two birds with one stone and give some impressions of recent ownership of a new (to me) Furby VRS (Special Edition).

 

I've owned a Mk1 VRS previously, back in 2004 I had one from new as a company car for a few years, and it's funny how the memory plays tricks.  Back then, after ownership of slightly sporty cars ranging from older Manta GTEs (for those who remember them!), Ford Focus 2.0, Scirocco GTi (Mk2); Modded Merc saloon, and a few others, the Fabia was a revelation for an oil burner. I seem to remember that particular 2004 VRS felt quicker than my current SE version, especially through the mid range and it also I think may have used different mapping from standard as power came in with more of a wheel spinning bang in the lower gears.

 

Before I get ahead of myself though, I'll explain where I'm coming from.  I'm, errr, a more "mature" driver than I suspect many on here might be, now well into my 40's.  For real kicks, I ride some fairly exotic 2 wheel machinery which redefine the word "performance" when compared to anything on 4 wheels, so outright performance has never been a major attraction in a road car, although decent handling has always been important for me. I've had to economise, being self employed so have recently sold my much loved Volvo S60 D5 (230 BHP re-map, uprated suspension etc etc) due to annual running costs being too unrealistic now.  Having suffered serious back injuries in mountain biking accidents, I need a comfy ride and nothing has ever come close to the S60 for that. However, the Fabia VRS in standard trim has surprisingly comfortable seats, driving position and suspension, so I has no worries about returning to a VRS which seemed to offer the blend of value, performance, comfort and low running costs that I was after.  In fact, nothing else seems to come to mind that does these things any better for the money.

 

I've offered my initial impressions of my re-acquaintance with the fabulous little Fabia below, along with some thoughts on the pros/cons and potential improvements I might look at:

 

 

 

I have so far put up a few hundred miles this week in the little Fabia and first impressions, compared with the Volvo are:  MUCH slower, poorer handling, more wind noise, but fabulous fuel economy and reasonable comfort.  The S60 utterly destroyed it in overtaking punch, handling and comfort but that, I guess, is no surprise.  The positives with the Fabia outweigh the negatives because these days, running costs matter.

 

The quality of the SE seats is great...as good as anything I've sat in, so grateful to have found a genuine, un-molested one previous owner standard SE car with low miles (under 50K from new with a full dealer history).

 

I've had the suspension bushes renewed and for peace of mind, have done a cambelt and waterpump service;  other than that, the car's almost showroom condition.  The mapping does seem rather soft.  I have a lot of mechanical sympathy so wouldn't drive the thing hard from anything under 2K revs, and only then after proper warm up.  Pull from 2.5K revs is adequate for reasonably safe overtakes in 3rd/4rth gears but it seems to lack the effortless punch which made overtakes so reassuringly safe and quick in the S60.  I know it's about power to weight but the older Mk1 I seem to remember had a little more on the seat of the pants dyno!  Still, I'd describe the performance as adequate, and motorway cruising is a breeze.

 

The handling is another matter.  The standard suspension is actually very good indeed for our pot-holed roads.  Lovely and compliant and comfortable.  Its firm enough to give a slightly sporty ride without breaking your fillings, something I value.  However, pushed hard along a road I know well, the trait for the engine to want to continue in a different direction to the rest of the car led to a few hair raising moments with the front end dipping, sending the back squirming out of line, but it was quickly recovered without drama.  This is a loss of control however you look at it, and one no doubt caused by driving too fast for the corner.  However, find yourself caught out, distracted for a second, and into a bend slightly too fast, and it could lead to something worse than finding out that the colour of adrenalin is brown-ish, so handling really does need to be sorted without resorting to ruining the ride.

 

Brakes seem more than adequate and are certainly more than adequate for the standard chassis.  If looking to track-day the car, I guess drilled larger front discs wouldn't hurt and would reduce the tendency for fade, but for 99% of road conditions, decent pads and standard discs are more than up to the job, so I plan to leave well alone until discs are worn, then replace with standard sized drilled Brembos.

 

Suspension is a tricky one.  I'm an advocate of NOT lowering, or using coil overs for road use. Most "slammed" cars may make the spotty youfs driving them (sorry of this is you!) look Kewel, but usually destroys handling.  As an engineer, I know that lowering springs/standard shocks simply doesn't work. you may get the impression of a firmer ride but the reduced damper travel, and lowered roll centre (often lower than the lowered C of G) can actually worsen body roll whilst lowering grip.

 

The answer, funds allowing, would appear to be to fit better quality dampers.  Good as the standard ones are, they are not up to the job of controlling that over-weight iron lump under the bonnet's effect on handling stability, especially mid corner, and in what was essentially a budget car to begin with, wont be top drawer spec.  Springs aren't too bad standard but would benefit from a more progressive design, firming up more with compression.

 

Trouble is, I don't have the funds, nor would I (even if I had) throw what would ultimately be the best part of a grand on fitting Gucci suspension on so the sensible option might be a rear ARB and perhaps better front suspension bushes.

 

I am sure that there's a million threads on this subject already, but if you'll humour a newbee, is there anyone out there who may have come to the same conclusion and done this, and if so, is it a worthwhile handling improvement for safety without loosing ride comfort?  I'd be very interested in the views of those with experience in doing this.

 

Engine-wise, I plan to leave everything standard as the chassis will probably need more than an ARB if any more "go" is injected.  I also don't want to monster the DMF or clutch or KKK turbo which I know is reputedly only reliable for 150 or so BHP; anything more and I would have to invest in something better because reliability is paramount for me.  I have also been put off modifying cars too much.  Past experience shows me that gearboxes aside, most cars have clutches, suspension, driveshafts etc etc pretty much matched for their output, and every time I've modded a car, its cost money on repairs to transmission and upgrades.  I don't want to go there again.  I drive pretty sensibly so performance is only an issue for safe overtakes.

 

There you have it.  I've returned after a 10 year break to a Fabia VRS and dont regret it for a second.  They have there issues, not least standard turbos, clutches and suspension bushes, joke rear washer pipework connectors (never had a rear washer work on my old one for more than a few months after every repair!) etc, but the issues are all known and the engine is a peach.  Arguably more reliable and economical than the later CR diesels which replaced them too.

 

I'm looking forward to the next 100K miles at least with this one, so any advice on sensible mods to improve the handling or reliability would be well received.

 

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Welcome back :-)

I've recently fitted the Vogtland shock and springs kit to my SE and think its fantastic kit for the price.

Also just enough of a drop to get rid of that ridiculous arch gap lol.

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Interesting read, comparing a stock 130bhp fabia to a fettled 230bhp Volvo made me chuckle.

Perhaps you were asking too much of the little Fabia vRS. They are good but you'd need to spend some pennies getting it as good as the Volvo was.

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Thanks guys. Not yet dodging too many coffins yet I hope, as planning to do next years IoM Manx GP on my Aprilia  :D plus do a fair bit of cycling, pounding the miles out on road/MTBs to keep middle aged spread at bay!  Us old 'uns can still pass muster ya know.

 

I'll look into those suspension suggestions, so thanks for sharing that  :clap:

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Interesting read, comparing a stock 130bhp fabia to a fettled 230bhp Volvo made me chuckle.

Perhaps you were asking too much of the little Fabia vRS. They are good but you'd need to spend some pennies getting it as good as the Volvo was.

 

Absolutely.  It was an unfair comparison.  It was more that the step down was more of a step than I was expecting, if that makes better sense? ;)   The S60 is a seriously underrated car and requires only minor mods to transform handling and performance.  Stock, it is under-sprung but well damped and has plenty of poke in that 185BHP 5 cylinder lump.  Mildly tuned, it's phenomenal (massive torque which the auto box is best handling rather than torturing the manual clutch).

 

Not really looking to spend much, as the business needs my investment so I can put food on the table.  Just more about getting the handling sorted for me at reasonable cost so that the mid corner issues are more controlled.

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AP 25mm looks interesting.  Question is, is the quality/longevity any better than standard as they do seem very inexpensive, especially with profit margins considered.  Bilstein 25's more expensive but perhaps worth the extra?

 

I'll be starting with a rear ARB though.  Jabba and Whiteline seem to be the popular choices.  The latter seem good value but those additional links might be yet another medium term maintenance question mark.

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I have driven one of those Volvos as an ex girlfriends dad had one - was standard but went well enough! Was an auto so kick down was quite impressive.

I should think an Octavia vrs diesel with a remap could compare quite nicely - better chassis and similar power.

The little fabia does punch above its weight in its car class, even now few car makers build a fast diesel hatch in supermini class! Think mini do a cooper s d but it's only 140bhp.

Quite happy with my SE which is similar to yours - 50k miles and one owner. The only upgrade I have done is 312mm brakes as I found the stock items woeful!

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I think al the stadard ones really need at 50K miles is perhaps replacement drilled discs and a brake fluid bleed.  So few people consider the brake fluid but it makes a huge difference getting it bled through with fresh fluid.  That'll be my starting point before I go upping the brake disc size.  they are fine for everyday driving but not much cop when pushed at the minute.  Whiteline RARB now ordered from Awesome GTi. Yes, those standard D5s are quick enough, but a re-mapped one sat on decent suspension is scary fast.

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SE or not, its still a 7 yr old car and if its been running unmodified means its been run without elephant mod.

So perfect servicing or not the intake will be clogged with crap. I would start with servicing that (maybe have dismantle and clean?) and see how it faires after that.

 

Its apparently more like 150 as a BLT so should be better if anything than the earlier model, its reported anyway.

 

Mine was getting seriously lethargic at 90k and felt stifled. It definitely improved after I declogged the intake and did the elephant bypass, finally (a ball ache, but was actually worth it)

 

Since you are asking about SENSIBLE mods I seriously suggest you have a look at the above. Also as its a BLT make sure the shudder issue with the EGR gasket is fixed (if you keep the EGR that is and don't have it mapped out with a mild remap or something)

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SE or not, its still a 7 yr old car and if its been running unmodified means its been run without elephant mod.

So perfect servicing or not the intake will be clogged with crap. I would start with servicing that (maybe have dismantle and clean?) and see how it faires after that.

 

Mine was getting seriously lethargic at 90k and felt stifled. It definitely improved after I declogged the intake and did the elephant bypass, finally (a ball ache, but was actually worth it)

 

Since you are asking about SENSIBLE mods I seriously suggest you have a look at the above. Also as its a BLT make sure the shudder issue with the EGR gasket is fixed (if you keep the EGR that is and don't have it mapped out with a mild remap or something)

 

I need to get round to doing this on mine. Having removed the top boost hose to replace a seal I could see there was indeed a build up of gunk in the EGR, so no doubt it's the same inside the inlet manifold too! It's a messy job but worth doing from what I've read. May as well do the elephant mod at the same time otherwise it will build up again. 

 

Another common issue is leaky boost hoses, they are a poor design so I would check them to see if yours are leaking from anywhere. The common one that goes is the lower inter-cooler connection but I'd trace everything back from the turbo to the EGR as they can leak from anywhere.

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Elephant mod?  Sorry, lost me there.  Yes, it has a little stutter issue below 2K revs which I assume is what Dominorising means above.

 

I haven't done the EGR bypass as I've read that it can be hard to sort the engine warning lights with this done on the BLT.  It is still blowing black smoke out at start up (no other time I can tell).  It does this as one big black cloud then clears up quickly.  It definitely does not pull as strongly as my 2004 model.  It's had a full service etc, so the only thing I can think of is sooted up EGR perhaps?

 

Can someone point me in the direction of what the elephant mod is please?

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Cheers rover220, appreciated.  Before I sort the gasket, I've had a think and rationally, the issues I'm having I think are all down to the EGR.  Rather than fit a straight through pipe, I'll keep the EGR in place, fit a blanking plate between it and the turbo exhaust manifold and remap the car with the standard map but with the EGR delete on the remap code.  That little lot will cost around £250 but seems worth the trouble.  Doing it that way should cure the shudder, the black smoke on start up issues (unless the EGR is jammed open, in which case a replacement is quite cheap) and bring back the standard car's performance.  One reason for keeping the EGR/ASV is that if a turbo problem does later manifest itself, the car has some way of shutting down, as with a straight through pipe in place, it could run on.

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RE Elephant mod...I used the search function rather than have people tell me that was what it was for LoL.

 

Yes, doing the elephant mod looks essential IF keeping everything standard but if doing an EGR delete, there's no sooty hot gas from the exhaust to mix with the oil vapour mist from the breather pipe at the top of the engine, so the value of the elephant mod is somewhat less.  Short term, I'll have the EGR cleaned so I know it's closing properly, block off the vacuum pipe which operates it, and see if that cures the issues (it should do).

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300 miles up now.

 

 

Still smoking on start up (only) so my best guess is either a slightly leaky injector which is allowing derv through into the bore after the engine is turned off (hence smoking on start up) or an EGR valve which isn't closing properly.  Performance isn't bad at all (certainly not bad enough to be a failed EGR or one stuck open) and there is still a slight 1900 rev stutter.  Other than that, all fine.  Contacted the guys I bought it off and the advice was "just drive it as the smoking will go away with use" but I didn't come up the river in a bubble, and no amount of driving will cure the fault (smoking).  Its fine when revved and only seems to do it when the key's turned in the ignition but quite embarrassing as a cloud of black smoke drifts across the neighbours gardens.

 

Getting used to the handling and adjustment of driving style and have to say its really quite good as long as it's kept balanced in the corners.  Have bought a Whiteline RARB which I'll fit next week and other than that, I reckon I'll leave the suspension alone for now as I dont want to lose the compliant ride.

 

Wont bother with the elephant mod as dont want oil mist all over the engine sump and standard cars run to starship mileages with the standard breather in place, but will do the EGR delete and fit a blanking plate between EGR and turbo manifold.  No need to replace the EGR, it can be left in place.

 

Tuning wise it doesn't need much but as I need the ECU reflashed to delete the EGR (BLT engine) it means having to shell out the same as I would for a re-map anyway, so going with a gentle on the car 150 BHP remap.  Seems a sensible balance between overtaking punch and reliability to me.

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You're probably right, but Turner Race Developments have a progressive 150BHP map for the 1.9 which seems ideal.  Mind you if your standard SE was measured at 146BHP then maybe just reflashing the standard map minus the EGR coding is all that I need.

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Hi all,

 

First - great post SEVrs.  Being a coffin dodger myself (knocking on 45!) and used to the modding scene from 'back in the day', I feel the urge to still say things like "slammed" but quickly realise it's just like sad dad-dancing lol!  Still, I have my ultra rare Uno Turbo in hibernation and a pair of XR2's to rebuild on the back burner so I may have to resort to the lingo to ensure I can 'stay down wid the yoots dem'  :D

 

Anyhoo,  I really do feel old and redundant 'cos I'm at a loss when it comes to all this 'elephantitis' mod, egr delete, control-alt-delete, ASV, RARB, Rah Band (go on, tell me if you've heard of them) and STD's, (ok, maybe not that one, but you get the drift!).  

 

I've had my mk1 SE for almost 3 yrs now.  With 104K miles and full SSH under the belt (before you shout hypocrite, that's Skoda Service History) I feel the dealer's are out to shaft me good n proper (they won't do my peeling rear spoiler as they say "...it's not really part of the bodywork...") so will now be getting my hands oily and probably mi knuckles shredded as I step up to the challenge of maintaining my furby.

 

So - this is really what i've been leading up to - can you young'uns help this old-skool codger with a simpleton guide to wtf ('fiddlestick') all the above abbreviations used throughout this post mean, as I'll probably be needing to upgrade and improve items as suggested.

 

I thank you.

 

 

Rob Staaaaar

Edited by robstaaaar
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Hi all,

 

First - great post SEVrs.  Being a coffin dodger myself (knocking on 45!) and used to the modding scene from 'back in the day', I feel the urge to still say things like "slammed" but quickly realise it's just like sad dad-dancing lol!  Still, I have my ultra rare Uno Turbo in hibernation and a pair of XR2's to rebuild on the back burner so I may have to resort to the lingo to ensure I can 'stay down wid the yoots dem'  :D

 

Anyhoo,  I really do feel old and redundant 'cos I'm at a loss when it comes to all this 'elephantitis' mod, egr delete, control-alt-delete, ASV, RARB, Rah Band (go on, tell me if you've heard of them) and STD's, (ok, maybe not that one, but you get the drift!).  

 

I've had my mk1 SE for almost 3 yrs now.  With 104K miles and full SSH under the belt (before you shout hypocrite, that's Skoda Service History) I feel the dealer's are out to shaft me good n proper (they won't do my peeling rear spoiler as they say "...it's not really part of the bodywork...") so will now be getting my hands oily and probably mi knuckles shredded as I step up to the challenge of maintaining my furby.

 

So - this is really what i've been leading up to - can you young'uns help this old-skool codger with a simpleton guide to wtf ('fiddlestick') all the above abbreviations used throughout this post mean, as I'll probably be needing to upgrade and improve items as suggested.

 

I thank you.

 

 

Rob Staaaaar

 

 

Hi Rob

 

As one coffin dodger to another (I have a few years on you which is depressing  :sweat:):

 

EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation...a way of screwing up your intake manifold and efficient engine running....officially done for improving emissions control.  Barmy isn't it?  Petrol and diesel engines both use it these days.  Hot gasses are taken from the exhaust and passed back to the inlet manifold.  they contain hot sooty particles which mix with oil mist from the crank case breather to form a sticky sludge which then chokes everything up but it keeps tree huggers really happy, so that's ok then.  DPF now fitted to diesels usually deals well with particulates and regenerates every few hundred miles to burn off sooty depostis, so the value of the EGR has me scratching my head...Europe (and California) largely to blame.  Had they not tried conning people that diesels were a cleaner alternative to petrols, there wouldn't be so many on the roads and it wouldn't be so much of an issue. 

 

ASV = Anti Shudder Valve....not a device to keep you warm in winter....no, it's there to prevent engine runaway at shut down, especially if the turbo develops a fault. 

 

Elephant pipe mod = removing the crank case breather from the inlet manifold and re routing it under the engine.  Not necessary IF an EGR delete is done.  I have had engines run to starship mileages with this breather left in place, so not worth the effort of changing imho but the young uns (bless 'em) like to see nice shiny catch tanks and colourful pipework under the bonnet so why not?

 

RARB = Rear Anti Roll Bar:  pretty much essential on the VRS to correct the under steer and keep the thing more stable in corners, especially when pushing on.  Cheap mod too if you run with the budget Whiteline RARB kit.

 

Rah Band:  70's band led by Richard Hewson and nothing to do with cars  :D

Edited by SEVrs
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My SE stats before and after my Shark remap:

Before-

139.4bhp

365nm

269.2 ft/lbs

After-

178.1bhp

469.7nm

346.4 ft/lbs

 

Some pretty healthy figure there in standard trim Matt.  Is there much difference driving the car post-tune and what mpg are you now achieving?  Also, is the Shark map a nice progressive map?  My early VRS had a standard map in which all the torque came in with a bang at 2500RPM, and lighting the front wheels up made it lose traction in the wet.  The SE seems more progressive as standard.

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