an addition to the spark plug threads, mine have desintegrated. please recomend replacements.

[sharkrider]

As some of you may know I have suffered a cold start misfire recently (proper misfire, not just a lumpy idol ect like they all do!)... so I took it to the garage.....

It has been diagnosed with faulty spark plugs as the reason for misfire. Bear in mind these plugs are supposed to do 40,000 miles, and my car has done 25,000 miles...

 

here they are...

 

 

the tech says one has desintegrated and the others are going...

 

you can clearly see plug 4 has almost NO electrode left at all (look at the gap! no wonder it was misfiring!)

Plug 2 is clearly desintegrating too, you can see the electrode vaporising on all of them...

 

NOW: I would obviously like upgraded plugs, on my old car I went to BRK8's and it was too high, I will need BRK7's.... BUT the garage will only replace the plugs under warrenty with plugs supplied by skoda, not plugs supplied by me... (wont allow a modified part to be fitted under warrenty) soooo..... I ask what they are going to be replaced with, as obviously they are not up to the job.... "they will be replaced with the same part number plugs sir" :( NGK plugs to OE spec.... these plugs will be sent back to skoda as part of the warrenty work.... ok I say, I will bring upgraded plugs for you to fit at my 30k service, the new onse SHOULD last 5k ! (that will include another track day , and a trip along the autobahns to the ring, so I bloody hope they do cope! Bear in mind my engine is NOT modified at all, and has NEVER run a tuning box!

 

the moral of the story is this: if you have a misfire (a proper misfire, recorded in the ECU , EPC light , emissions light ect ) DON'T drive the car, get it to the garage to be fixed asap, I dread to think what would have happened with a bit of metal in a cylinder!

sooooo, can anyone give me a link/part number to plugs they would recomend? ! lol.. thanks.

 

Shark (who has obviously changed his mind on spark plugs....) maybe NGK have some serious quality control issues?

[vrskeith]

Bloody hell you were very lucky.

 

George,has put plenty of work into plugs.Drop him a PM.

Edited 20 August, 2014 by vrskeith

[Rooted]

I will highly recommend the DENSO Spark Plugs and Eurocarparts are doing a great offer on them.

 

http://eurocarparts.com

 

I normally pay £64 for 4, you get them for £52 from them i think.

 

EDIT 

£50.40

Edited 20 August, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Ally_bassman]

Woah! They look goosed! Close call.

Got me slightly concerned now, when you mean misfire when cold, what symptoms are you getting? I've been getting rough running when cold pretty much everyday since I got my plugs changed 3k miles ago. I get a rough idle and then an obvious misfire until the revs hit 2k and it changes up to 2nd gear. I get no warning lights and then no misfires until the next time the car is cold.

[sharkrider]

it was always (from new) just the normal up and down revs on cold start... sounding funky, no fault lights, no obvious misfire, they all do that, and some people mistake the cold start procedure for misfiring...

 

on cold start monday, I got DOG rough running (obviously 2-3 cylinders only) EPC light, engine management light (means emmisions) car wouldn't pull, so basically wouldn't drive...... proper symptoms! (until it warmed up when all was fine!)

 

then it was in the garage, just left it with them...

 

I have been driving the eunos since then.... funny that a 23y/o mazda seems to be more reliable.... lol....

 

if I were you ally , I'd go for some uprated ones! IF you are getting an obvious misfire, dont drive it, get it in..... if a bit comes off the spark plug , you will go down the way of damo and end up having to have the engine replaced!

 

like everyone said, I think I was lucky! implosion was imminent!

[punyXpress]

Are the plugs themselves at fault - looks like VERY weak mixture to me.

[Rooted]

The Mixture is as Skoda / VW have the Engine Management of the 1.4 TSI CTHE set up.

 

The Plugs were failing in the Original CAVE Engines and its MAP in some cases.

 

Some do see over 30,000 miles. but i doubt many of the Plugs that Skoda / VW have fitted as standard see 40,000 miles.

 

Skoda, Seat, VW, Audi  never has changed the Service Schedule though since 2009, even though there is a serious case of premature Spark Plug failures.

[sharkrider]

Are the plugs themselves at fault - looks like VERY weak mixture to me.

 

opposite in fact. twinchargers run VERY rich.... they dump fuel in to cool down.... they run extra fuel cycle on cold startup to combust in the cat to heat up quicker... they are SO rich they puff black smoke on occasion... black up the chrome exhaust , and leave black soot marks on the rear of the car... trust me, they do not run lean!

The Mixture is as Skoda / VW have the Engine Management of the 1.4 TSI CTHE set up.

 

The Plugs were failing in the Original CAVE Engines and its MAP in some cases.

 

Some do see over 30,000 miles. but i doubt many of the Plugs that Skoda / VW have fitted as standard see 40,000 miles.

 

Skoda, Seat, VW, Audi  never has changed the Service Schedule though since 2009, even though there is a serious case of premature Spark Plug failures.

 

 

indeed, this is why I made the point at the dealer today to say... #"why are they being replaced under warrenty withthe same plugs, when they are obviously not up tothe job?!"

[vrskeith]

opposite in fact. twinchargers run VERY rich.... they dump fuel in to cool down.... they run extra fuel cycle on cold startup to combust in the cat to heat up quicker... they are SO rich they puff black smoke on occasion... black up the chrome exhaust , and leave black soot marks on the rear of the car... trust me, they do not run lean!

 

 

indeed, this is why I made the point at the dealer today to say... #"why are they being replaced under warrenty withthe same plugs, when they are obviously not up tothe job?!"

Time for an e-mail to Skoda Customer Services and raise the Case No and get some answers.

Is there an on going history on plug issues ?

Edited 21 August, 2014 by vrskeith

[Ally_bassman]

opposite in fact. twinchargers run VERY rich.... they dump fuel in to cool down.... they run extra fuel cycle on cold startup to combust in the cat to heat up quicker... they are SO rich they puff black smoke on occasion... black up the chrome exhaust , and leave black soot marks on the rear of the car... trust me, they do not run lean!

 

I can vouch for that! Sometimes I get bigger puffs of smog out the back than I did in my old MK 1 VRS TDI!

 

 

it was always (from new) just the normal up and down revs on cold start... sounding funky, no fault lights, no obvious misfire, they all do that, and some people mistake the cold start procedure for misfiring...

 

on cold start monday, I got DOG rough running (obviously 2-3 cylinders only) EPC light, engine management light (means emmisions) car wouldn't pull, so basically wouldn't drive...... proper symptoms!

 

Reading your symptoms, mine don't sound as severe. But I do get rough running, it does sound like a dog and will stutter along until it hits 2k revs. Then it just preforms like normal. The first gear change always produces a nice pop and bang like a BTCC car. (The neighbours must love me at 6:40am) No EPC light or any warning faults and its not always consistent (It didn't do it this morning..... typical)

 

All started since I got my plugs changed to the newer spec (03c905601b) plugs. Shark, can you confirm that it was this spec that were taken out of your car?

 

It weird, the old spec plugs were fine. Never had these issues, with or without a TMC. since these new plugs were fitted I've got this terrible running when cold.

[vrskeith]

I can vouch for that! Sometimes I get bigger puffs of smog out the back than I did in my old MK 1 VRS TDI!

 

 

 

Reading your symptoms, mine don't sound as severe. But I do get rough running, it does sound like a dog and will stutter along until it hits 2k revs. Then it just preforms like normal. The first gear change always produces a nice pop and bang like a BTCC car. (The neighbours must love me at 6:40am) No EPC light or any warning faults and its not always consistent (It didn't do it this morning..... typical)

 

All started since I got my plugs changed to the newer spec (03c905601b) plugs. Shark, can you confirm that it was this spec that were taken out of your car?

 

It weird, the old spec plugs were fine. Never had these issues, with or without a TMC. since these new plugs were fitted I've got this terrible running when cold.

When are you back to the service agent for checks?

[Ally_bassman]

Only if absolutely necessary, I don't rate any of my local Skoda dealerships.

 

Because the problem is not consistent, and the car runs perfect from 30 seconds after start-up until shutdown, I don't want to waste my time arguing with a dealer or master tech that something isn't right.

 

Sorry Shark, I don't want to hijack your thread, I just want to compare my symptoms to yours. :-)

[Rooted]

They changed the plugs and then issues. So ask a question of the technician who's name is on the work sheet. ?what was the gap you set on the plugs. They should not need to refer to the computer or manual. They do them all the time. Just a 1.4 tsi

[Sparkly]

If I was anyone of you guys with the symptoms mentioned, without hesitation I would order up those Denso's or some NGK BKR7EIX and get an independant garage to put them in ASAP. At the very least get a new set of the stock plugs in sharpshooters until you decide what to do long term.

I understand the concerns over NGK given that the Skoda ones are NGK but it is clearly something to do with how that plug performs in particular. TMG in Greece commended Newbie69 for his choice of BkR7EIX and at the moment the big tuners in Greece seem to have the most in depth knowledge on this engine through their tuning work.

[vrskeith]

Time for an e-mail to Skoda Customer Services and raise the Case No and get some answers.

Is there an on going history on plug issues ?

Clearly we seem to be missing the point here ,the responsibility  is in the hands of the manufacturer VAG-SKODA etc for not recognising through the service / data gathering sources to recognise the plug spec is not performing correctly . If the service agent aren't providing the correct info to the manufacturer and challenging on our behalf, then yet again, we the experienced punter have got to do something to rectify or put pressure on the Manufacturer to sort it.

 

Unfortunately ,in this instance the product is on wind down, but the manufacturer's responsibility is still to provide a service back up for at least 10 years in parts etc.

 

So what history / data gathered have Skoda UK got on plug failures, in under the specified 40,000 miles specified life in the service manual?? 

 

I'm sure we have loads of evidence on here to provide quickly to Skoda UK.

 

So lets get Skoda UK to get their arse in gear and come up with the correct plug spec. Instead of us all playing around with the various options available, not fully knowing the full operating engine condition. VAG have the resource we don't!

 

In the meantime Skoda UK service agents persist in replacing with an incorrect performing plug by working to the current  service spec schedule.

Edited 21 August, 2014 by vrskeith

[sharkrider]

Only if absolutely necessary, I don't rate any of my local Skoda dealerships.

 

Because the problem is not consistent, and the car runs perfect from 30 seconds after start-up until shutdown, I don't want to waste my time arguing with a dealer or master tech that something isn't right.

 

Sorry Shark, I don't want to hijack your thread, I just want to compare my symptoms to yours. :-)

No problem, its all relevant. I cant confirm what was taken out of my car , I know the stock plugs (which were fine) in my old cave car were 03C905 601A... but you can blow up that pic I pt up, its quite detailed, and I beleive they are 03C 905 560B .... thats what seems to be embossed on the side! no Idea what has now gone in either...

 

If I was anyone of you guys with the symptoms mentioned, without hesitation I would order up those Denso's or some NGK BKR7EIX and get an independant garage to put them in ASAP. At the very least get a new set of the stock plugs in sharpshooters until you decide what to do long term.

I understand the concerns over NGK given that the Skoda ones are NGK but it is clearly something to do with how that plug performs in particular. TMG in Greece commended Newbie69 for his choice of BkR7EIX and at the moment the big tuners in Greece seem to have the most in depth knowledge on this engine through their tuning work.

There's a few on here use the BKR7's ... I may go for those... but not for another 5k when I have its 30k service. we'll see how these plugs perform.... if I get misfires, even little ones, its going back!

 

to be fair to our garage, I have had excellent customer service from the tech dept. the techs are good. the car has just been delivered back washed outside, hoovered in.... I have a lesson this afternoon, it will be driven for about 3 hours, in all varying capacities, we'll see how it performs!

[sharkrider]

Clearly we seem to be missing the point here ,the responsibility  is in the hands of the manufacturer VAG-SKODA etc for not recognising through the service / data gathering sources to recognise the plug spec is not performing correctly . If the service agent aren't providing the correct info to the manufacturer and challenging on our behalf, then yet again, we the experienced punter have got to do something to rectify or put pressure on the Manufacturer to sort it.

 

Unfortunately ,in this instance the product is on wind down, but the manufacturer's responsibility is still to provide a service back up for at least 10 years in parts etc.

 

So what history / data gathered have Skoda UK got on plug failures, in under the specified 40,000 miles specified life in the service manual?? 

 

I'm sure we have loads of evidence on here to provide quickly to Skoda UK.

 

So lets get Skoda UK to get their arse in gear and come up with the correct plug spec. Instead of us all playing around with the various options available, not fully knowing the full operating engine condition. VAG have the resource we don't!

 

In the meantime Skoda UK service agents persist in replacing with an incorrect performing plug by working to the current  service spec schedule.

The reason I couldn't have my old plugs was that they were to be send to skoda as part of the warrenty claim, I assume any warrenty work requires this, the garage needs to send skoda a faukty part to get the new one free..... so I'm sure skoda are getting the knackered plugs. Maybe they just don't care....

 

the engine is still in use in other VAG products, audi A1 ect ////

[vrskeith]

No problem, its all relevant. I cant confirm what was taken out of my car , I know the stock plugs (which were fine) in my old cave car were 03C905 601A... but you can blow up that pic I pt up, its quite detailed, and I beleive they are 03C 905 560B .... thats what seems to be embossed on the side! no Idea what has now gone in either...

 

There's a few on here use the BKR7's ... I may go for those... but not for another 5k when I have its 30k service. we'll see how these plugs perform.... if I get misfires, even little ones, its going back!

 

to be fair to our garage, I have had excellent customer service from the tech dept. the techs are good. the car has just been delivered back washed outside, hoovered in.... I have a lesson this afternoon, it will be driven for about 3 hours, in all varying capacities, we'll see how it performs!

Have your garage, who do a good car wash ,informed Skoda UK or placed on your file the problem encountered by you, with early plug burnout which would suggest an engineering engine problem?

[sharkrider]

I have no idea Keith

[vrskeith]

Sharkrider,

 

If we have learnt anything with the Oil Consumption engine fiasco,then get things in writing and get a engineering written feed back/action plan from Skoda UK via the dealer if that's the best route for you.  

Edited 21 August, 2014 by vrskeith

[sharkrider]

I'm really not that stressed lol.... If it works now, it works. if it breaks again, its under warrenty

[Rooted]

Just a small point on the Manufacturers Warranty, 3 years or 5, in the Exclusions is 'Motorsport Activities'.  

 

So if the subject is brought up ever with any owner making a Warranty Claim, you need to be prepared to argue possibly that Track Days are not Motorsport Activities,

But as gets pointed out, it is not on the Public Highway but on a Closed Track, is timed  & is actually Motorsport not some Treasure Hunt.

 

Or maybe do not post the Activities the car takes part in on Open& Public  Forums.

 

http://skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/Warranty-Booklet-single.pdf

page 6.

 

george

Edited 21 August, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[vrskeith]

I'm really not that stressed lol.... If it works now, it works. if it breaks again, its under warrenty

Best of luck!

[sharkrider]

Just a small point on the Manufacturers Warranty, 3 years or 5, in the Exclusions is 'Motorsport Activities'.  

 

So if the subject is brought up ever with any owner making a Warranty Claim, you need to be prepared to argue possibly that Track Days are not Motorsport Activities,

But as gets pointed out, it is not on the Public Highway but on a Closed Track, is timed  & is actually Motorsport not some Treasure Hunt.

 

Or maybe do not post the Activities the car takes part in on Open& Public  Forums.

 

http://skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/Warranty-Booklet-single.pdf

page 6.

 

george

Track days are NOT motorsport George.... its in  the details.... there is NO racing allowed, NO timing allowed ect ect (you get thrown out for having aps that time laps!) ... and the nurburgring, is actually an extention of the German highway.... small print works both ways

[Ally_bassman]

It's just a windy one way toll road!..... In Germany :-)