My vRS has had it with oil...

[newbie69]

So, another interesting oil story for those of you who love reading them... I've had my vRS for 3 good years now. Since the beginning I have kept a log of all my oil checks and top-ups which I have religiously been repeating under the same conditions for obvious consistency reasons. It has always used a bit of oil, the exact amount has varied depending on driving conditions, oil grades and length of trips but in general it was using around 300ml per 1000KM. Acceptable by Skoda/VW standards but most importantly, acceptable by me.

 

Now, beginning of July at ~46K KM I had to top up again adding 700ml. Right after that the car did quite a few long trips (600+ KM each) and started clocking KM quickly as a result. Almost sure I would need to add a bit more after 1000KM I checked the level and it seemed not to have gone down one bit. Strange I thought and left it as it was. Two weeks later at 2K since the last top up I checked again only to see the same thing! Then 3K, tiny difference (probably less than 50ml so I left it again), then 4K, always the same. It is now mid September, I have done 5600KM since I last added any oil and the oil level is just at the middle of the hatched area.....       When I do the math, the consumption has gone down by a staggering 60-70% at around 100ml per 1000KM...

 

I certainly don't mind that as you would suppose but I can only see two things being different during this period: a) Kilometers done all together in long trips and Spark plugs changed a couple of months earlier before this thirst stop but this doesn't really relate I think. One thing I know I have again started to do very very short daily commutes (2KM) which I had previously related to increased oil consumption. I'll top up now and if consumption goes up again I think I'll have a clear cause of the oil issues, or at least one of them.

 

Have a nice evening

[MartynVRS]

I have the same theory as you. I do 100 miles a day currently and I'm not joking when I say every one of them is flat out. Mine uses but it's hardly any. 400ml in about 3000 miles is the norm. But this week I move close to work so the round trip commute drops to 15 miles but there's no traffic so I can carry on driving the same. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[the mad monk]

with all my checking and tests i can say without a doubt that short trips are were its lost for me

long trips use nothing really but stick in the town and a litre is gone in no time

[Ally_bassman]

Really good post Newbie :-)

 

I agree with what you have said. it does seem that longer journeys help prevent oil consumption.

 

it begs the question of what actually causes it? My understanding is that oil is lost because of the tolerances in the block, and it being burnt / escaping when oil is sprayed underneath the piston to aid cooling?

 

So do longer journeys prevent oil consumption because the engine is running hotter therefore the tolerances are not as great because the block is hotter?

 

Or is it down to the characteristics of longer journeys / steady engine revs preventing it? Is oil lost when the engine changes gear or is not working hard?

 

Interesting stuff!

[MidlifecrisisT]

Very interesting post! Makes me want to keep on top of mine now. I put in 750ml prob around 800/1,000 miles ago as the metal part had no oil on stick. After putting it in, it was just below halfway of hatched area. Checked it last week and it was below the metal part again, topped it up with 500ml. Recently I've only been doing 15 miles a day due to a change in shifts at work.

[Th3Grinch]

I commute 6miles to work a day. (Not always back same day.) Travel 40miles a week going to and from work. Then social use. My car used to use well over prescribed limit. In fact over double at one point. Since engine was swapped I havent used a litre in 7.5k infact the difference on dipstick has been that negligible ive ignored it. Gave it an oil change last week and drained 3.5 litres out.

[newbie69]

Well one thing is for sure, there is not one unique behaviour affecting all vRS's. For example th3Grinch's car is only doing a small commute, still uses no oil with the new engine so I think this concerns mostly the early engines.

 

So, trying to explain the "cave engine - long journey" theory and spot what variable is different in those two scenarios (short/cold vs long/hot journeys) I came up with the following:

 

On a normal day my car will turn on from being stone cold, do a couple of km and then turn off before even the water temp gauge moves at all. Then again the same when I will leave from work. Totally twice or 4 times per day If I do another small journey in between. Now on a trip, it will start in the morning, do a couple hundred km, turn off and on between fuel top ups (but while being still very hot), and then turn off when I have reached my destination in the evening. In total, it starts and stops pretty much at the same rate as in my normal working day. Now since no new oil is generated while the engine is running, the only difference between the two cases is that when the engine is turned off it is after having done several km under operating temperature rather than being cold. Can it be then that the oil is being lost? Engine off before having operated at normal operating temps for a while? And how could that lead to oil loss?

Edited 15 September, 2014 by newbie69

[Th3Grinch]

To be honest I think we'd be better putting our minds together the find the ark of the covenant than trying to work out the oil problem the engine has. Although VAG obviously worked it out to create the different cthe engine. It baffles my mind how engines can differ so much when they share the same parts?!?!?!?

[Ally_bassman]

Again, it goes back to failed quality control at VAG.

 

Newer / replacement engines are most likely better units as their blocks will be manufactured better than the old CAVE units.

 

Cold engine = cold internals = more gaps for the oil to vaporise / be burnt.

 

Hot engine = hot internals = less gaps for the oil vaporise / be burnt.

 

Oil will still be lost when the engine is cold, but as you do a lot of miles when the engine is hot, you get more miles per oil used.

 

This is all just my understanding / theory / my opinion.

[Ally_bassman]

Wait. An oil thread without George?

 

This doesn't feel right!!! :p

[TomR88]

I do roughly 60miles a day and it used to use 700ml per 300miles and with the breather mods went down to 550ml per 300miles, now its time for a new engine because of how thirsty it is.

[Auric Goldfinger]

Wait. An oil thread without George?

 

This doesn't feel right!!! :p

 

Think he's gone off to Vote

[sharkrider]

I concur that different driving relates to different usage for me too..... mine is generally about a litre every 4,000 miles, but it seems to use more when just going to work or doing driving lessons.....

 

before last weekend it was 3/4 up the hatch, and I have done 600+ hard miles including wringing its neck at castle coombe, and havent checked it yet but no oil light! lol... I guess its fine but i will be checking it again before I head out to Germany at the weekend! lol..

[vrskeith]

Wait. An oil thread without George?

 

This doesn't feel right!!! :p

He has gone off to shake Cameron by the throat!!

 

Also to sort out DC's  hair oil consumption issues!

Edited 15 September, 2014 by vrskeith

[PaddyVRS]

Interesting topic, I'll put in my two cents. From personal experience with my first engine (heavy oil user) and second engine (mild addiction to castrol) I can agree that different lengths of journeys vary the consumption.

My theory is for the different usage is more related to time the engine is under power compared to no power ie coasting in gear. It was very obvious with my first engine, CAVE, that if coasting down a hill at fairly low rpm it would pump a shed load of oil into the combustion chamber until getting on the power again burnt it off in one go. This was significantly worse when hot, probably due to oil being much less viscous and being pushed past the piston rings.

Therefore the long journey vs short is correct as you spend most of your time cruising under power (higher pressure ABOVE the piston) which stops oil passing the rings. Short trips and start stop have proportionally much more time coasting and hence allows more oil into combustion chamber. Even if it's small amounts, not making noticeable smoke, it all adds up hence higher use around town etc. Thus would also explain why people who do track days use hardly any oil when on track.

So per mile or km constant speed will always use less oil than start stop. Perhaps think of it as time at idle against power instead of *ml oil/km.

Now it's not going to change your consumption from say 1 litre to 300ml by different driving styles alone. If you have a bad on its just bad. But as a measure of good vs bad perhaps a quantity of oil for a set distance can be misleading if not the same driving style as you typically use.

Essay over! :-D

[sharkrider]

there is a system in these engines that sprays oil onto the pistons on their way up..... i suppose if rings are an issue, this could explain allot, the CTHE engines have completely different pistons....

[OzFabia]

I agree with the general theory above - on longer trips, mine uses less. A suggestion, then, for anyone doing a consumption test: don't go out and immediately do a long drive to get the test over!

[Rooted]

The earlier versions.  Note the comment on Fuel / Oil Mix.

 This is the issue before engines are at operating temperatures with the CAVE,

pre CTHE, and Engine Managements on the CTHE was to make the difference, and it did, once they got it right.

Not in 2012 maybe at the launch of the CTHE in the Fabias. but in summer 2013 after the FL Ibiza Cupra 2013 was Launched.

The Images showing the Heat at the Intake manifold gives you are good look at which of the 2 cylinders are prone to having Spark Plugs cooked when they upped the Engine Output to 132-136kW Minimum. (177-183 BHP)

The reason that the More Powerful, or higher tuned engines had issues where the 150 BHP one with the Same Components does not.

**Well not the Same Components in the CTHE, Different Pistons and Rings to cope with the Additional Heat

of the Minimum 132-136kw.**.

(Interestingly, the ACT / COD 1.4TSI Engines, (Cylinder Deactivation or Cylinder on Demand actually 

have the 2 cylinders that get the most heat and wear on the Twincharger non operational except when required 

to produce instant power.)

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECKNIK

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

 

Edited 16 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Sittingbull]

Ours uses most oil when my wife is the main user for her work. All her journeys throughout the day are probably less than a couple of miles at a time, and probably never gives the engine a chance to heat properly. All her journeys are in town/ villages, all are stop start type, and she is a cautious wee driver anyway so the car never really gets opened up at any point during her working day. Her average speed for the journeys will be very low as she is mostly about streets in the village, probably the car doesn't often go beyond 5th gear to be truthful.

 

When she was off on a 3 week holiday earlier in the year, I was the main user and the distances became longer, the journeys had virtually no stop start involved and they were carried out at a far higher rate of knots. Oil consumption noticeably dropped.

 

We are desperately hoping that the new engine, when fitted, resolves the issue that seems most prevalent over the shorter journeys. If it doesn't, lord knows where that leaves us. I have noticed recently that the previously sooty blasts that used to occasionally spit from the back end have become more prevalent, especially when moving from almost halted to picking away, and that the smoke is no longer sooty but blue. Something has gone awry I would suggest.

Edited 16 September, 2014 by Sittingbull

[Rooted]

The new engine should be perfect when a Master Tech fits it properly and puts the Latest SKODA / VW Software on the ECU.

 

Odd the story from the Dealership that received your engine.

The person delivering it got a signature, the Bar Code was read by the Parts / Store / Workshop and it is on 

a large Motor Group like Parks of Hamiltons Stock Records.

So they know what they ordered, what they received and when they received it.

 

Skoda UK Customer Services now know what engine is there for you.

It has full traceability. They send products and engines all around the world.

a Factory Number & Code, and it has a Individual Identification Number.

Date of Build or Remanufactured Date.

 

If someone on a Service desk is clueless or unhelpful,

then a Service Manager like John Good at Skoda UK Customer Services can ask the Technical Team to give full details

of Engine & Parts Supplied and Part Numbers etc.

 

2014 after all and the Volkswagen Group Engines, not Kerb Side Autos and some Back Street Engine Supplier.

 

All the best.

Edited 16 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

VAG released CTHF twinchargers I read somewhere, wonder what was changed?!

 

At start up injectors duty is doubled to heat the catalyst as fast as poss. This may lead to oil being washed off the bores and crank case pressure pushing oil mist into combustion chamber. So if your driving comprises short trips mostly the "oil usage phase" makes for the far larger percentage per mile of driving than normal injection phase. One cause. 

There is a plethora of other causes possible as well, like grey iron cast of the block with crap tolerances leading to cylinder liners distorting and letting oil through, oil scraper ring being of a wrong design, wearing off an letting oil into the combustion chamber. This can be associated with crank case pressure management/venting system making the problem worse. Valve guides can be out of tolerance letting the oil through. There are only two, yes two ways for oil to get through, from the crank case or from the valve train, no other way in. Turbo and charger seals disregarding.

[cl coupe]

So do I test with a hot engine and then a cold one for comparison or just hot and top up after that.

Also how long does a sealed bottle of oil last got a castrol 5w30 long life that is 4 and a half years old got it with a 2010 plate polo.

Thanks. J

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tonyfvrs]

there is a system in these engines that sprays oil onto the pistons on their way up..... i suppose if rings are an issue, this could explain allot, the CTHE engines have completely different pistons....

But my CTHE burns as much oil as my CAVE, so I don't think different pistons are a cure.

[Rooted]

When was your CTHE engine built, and the car first registered?

 

It is more than just different pistons,

 but with some of the earliest CTHE VW / Skoda might not have got it right, hence some of the first ones, late 2012 to early 2013 

being lemons.

[sharkrider]

Mine has been using a litre every 4,000 miles , I have done over 1,000 miles since Friday, high speed, intensive, 8 laps of the nurburgring, going on a trip tomorow , then back to England .... Oil still at max .... Going on all the info, these engines liked to be used, and hard , and then they burn nothing..... Short journeys and traffic. Ect seems to be bad for them ....