Fabia mk 11 misfire help

[xman]

Come on guys....I dont think you get glazed bores in half hours idling otherwise everyone who commutes on the m25 would have glazed bores. This is not a taxi idling for hours at a time day in day out....

Likewise, when limp mode happens, the ecu limits or even switches off an injector to prevent unburnt fuel getting to the cat. You wouldnt suffer any major damage..

Edited 18 October, 2014 by xman

[Richf]

No point idling as the injector will be flowing a tiny amount ie less than 10% , no point driving as the ecu switches the injector off to protect the cat

Quite how you can get the injector at a high enough duty to flush the fuel additive through when the car is running like this defies me !

[GeneralPurpose]

xman is right. You don't get glazed bores from idling once the engine has been run in. The bores are hardened. But prolly not good to let any motor idle for half hour. Won't do any good. From my understanding, the car has been serviced now with new oil and filters. If it can be driven with the fuel additive in it and keep the revs under 3k or wherever the engine has normally dropped into limp mode, it may well do the trick. But as xman says, the cleaning process won't happen quickly. 

[Pappafox]

Afternoon chaps,

 

Thanks again for the comments. It's booked in to get the long overdue scan from the skoda dealer next week now. HURRAAAAYYYYY!!!

 

In the meantime I will put some injector cleaner in and give it a run around at under 3250 rpm so we don't go into limp mode.

 

Do you agree on this?

[xman]

As usual, pappafox is setting himself up for another expensive shot!!!

 

Go and get some injector cleaner TODAY, put it in and start now!!  I noticed yesterday in my local toolstation they do injector cleaner for about £3...

 

ONLY if it doesnt appear to be working, say after you've used a tankful of fuel then go to the next stage.

 

Skoda will charge you around £90 for a scan even if thy efind nothing! Depending on the dealer and the capabilities of their techs, you may get anything including "no fault found mate" or a bad or misinterpreted diagnosis. Some, not all, dealers look at this as a lucrative opportunity to make money.

 

If you have a laptop, why dont you buy a  £10 cable off ebay and do a scan yourself? However dont ask me to hold your hand with this! If you tell is where abouts you are, maybe a member who lives nearby would be willing to pop round and scan it for you, I know some have in the past.

Edited 18 October, 2014 by xman

[xman]

Well, Ive just looked at daughter in laws AZQ engine, the injector rail is held down by 2 torx screws, looks as if its just unscrew them and pull the rail off and the injectors are clipped into that. I know what I would be doing.....

[Pappafox]

Hi Xman,

 

 

Couldn't source the miller injector cleaner from the local outlets four out of five (fifth one closed at noon) as they wanted to sell me MILLERS PETROL POWER ECOMAX ONE SHOT BOOST FUEL ADDITIVE.

That's the wrong stuff.  

 

So I bought Reddex instead. Thought I'd start the car then add the cleaner.  Bugger the engine wouldn't turn over...seems like the battery is flat!!!

Gonna have to try and bump start.  

 

It's strange how it has suddenly failed after going to that shyster who did the head job. He said it need a new battery, but I told him to put the old one back on as it went in with the battery working and I thought  he was scamming me ..even more.. He said it had been taken out of the car whilst working on the head.  However the nuts holding it in place and the leads don't look as if they've had a spanner to them. Might sound daft but is there a video on how to disconnect and take out the battery? Thisis if I have to take out and put on a trickle charge.

 

 

I agree  there are two torx screws holding the rail in and looks an easy job...I suppose I could try and do it.

However what to do when out? Send the injectors for cleaning or bid for the one on flea bay? 

 

 

This car is causing me 

 

 

 

[Pappafox]

Damn Im jumping in again on bloody expense with a battery now....SLOW down!

 

If there's anyone who can help in the West Yorks area it would be appreciated

[Richf]

There must be someone up there with vcds that can help , I'm convinced redex will do nowt

[Pappafox]

Put some injector cleaner in this morning and after bump starting ran around for about 45 mins.

 

Performance worse than ever with the limp mode kicking in quicker than ever. 

 

Did manage 4,000 rpm one time but it seems worse than last week.

[xman]

First of all, you MUST CHECK the electrical supply is healthy. Get a voltmeter and check the charging voltage at the battery when running is 14.3 volts. If your alternator is not charging properly or the battery has a shorted cell then the voltage will be low and the injectors will not operate properly and make matters worse.

Have patience, the cleaner will be cleaning all injectors, so it is feasible that it may get worse before it gets better. Just keep driving, if you're tripping limp mode, ease back and poodle around under the limit for at least 15 minutes or so before slowly increasing the welly, noting the limp trigger point and make a simple record.

I hope you put in at least the recommended dose, 50% extra would be better, and fresh fuel, after the additive, to ensure it mixes well.

Good luck and patience....remember, you wouldnt flush a gunged up drain pipe with cleaner for just two seconds and expect it to be ultra clean....sorry, but I couldnt think of a better example..

Edited 19 October, 2014 by xman

[Richf]

If the ecu keeps cutting power to the faulty injector to protect the cat , how will the additive clean it ?

[GeneralPurpose]

Rich, the op is saying it runs fairly normally under certain rev limits so the injector cleaner will be working, at least until shut off. Also, when the car is run with a flat battery, especially one that is faulty or at the end of it's life, the car won't run properly anyway. IF the battery is faulty, it must be replaced. But checking the voltage output from the alternator is important first to find out if there is a more underlying problem.

[Richf]

Rich, the op is saying it runs fairly normally under certain rev limits so the injector cleaner will be working, at least until shut off. Also, when the car is run with a flat battery, especially one that is faulty or at the end of it's life, the car won't run properly anyway. IF the battery is faulty, it must be replaced. But checking the voltage output from the alternator is important first to find out if there is a more underlying problem.

Did you read post #160?

I agree the car needs a decent voltage but that's a separate issue

[GeneralPurpose]

Yes Rich, I was partly responding to that post. Just saying that if the battery was flat due to a fault with the battery, the car would likely not run properly after a push start. The ecu can go all over the place for the first few miles. It's like when the battery has been disconnected for longer than 30 mins. The ecu forgets certain engine parameters such as throttle position etc etc. It has to learn those again or be reset first. But with a faulty battery it can cause misfiring and eventually an engine cut out.

 

I don't remember Pappafox telling us about the flat/faulty battery until just at the end here somewhere. That would have altered my advice somewhat. Sure the valves needed to be worked on but a potentially faulty battery, and or, a faulty charging system can be a problem for modern cars, sometime producing repeated ecu forget symptoms. However, we are where we are. 

Edited 20 October, 2014 by Estate Man

[2ndskoda]

This has been a fascinating thread to follow, and I have always taken the view that the work on the head was an unnecessary expenditure carried out because someone had 'heard' that this particular engine type was 'prone to valve guide problems'!!!!!

 

No doubt in the end it will (hopefully) be something so silly/simple - and blatantly obvious that we will all be surprised. Estateman does make a valid point about the role that the battery plays/contributes to proper set up. As an example, how many people have had to change the little CR2032 computer battery so that their PC's function normally & retain the bios settings and date?

 

The one thing we have to keep in mind is the fact that the diagnostics readout is only any good if the operator/technician is fully conversant with the information that it provides. Lets hope that Pappafox has chosen the right dealer - up to the task.

Good luck Pappafox

Edited 20 October, 2014 by 2ndskoda

[Richf]

Yes Rich, I was partly responding to that post. Just saying that if the battery was flat due to a fault with the battery, the car would likely not run properly after a push start. The ecu can go all over the place for the first few miles. It's like when the battery has been disconnected for longer than 30 mins. The ecu forgets certain engine parameters such as throttle position etc etc. It has to learn those again or be reset first. But with a faulty battery it can cause misfiring and eventually an engine cut out.

I don't remember Pappafox telling us about the flat/faulty battery until just at the end here somewhere. That would have altered my advice somewhat. Sure the valves needed to be worked on but a potentially faulty battery, and or, a faulty charging system can be a problem for modern cars, sometime producing repeated ecu forget symptoms. However, we are where we are.

Yes that's often true but even whilst relearning the parameters the car wouldn't behave like this nor go into lhm.

I also agree with the last poster I suspect the head and guides were fine

[Jabozuma]

Have we had a job report from the people who done the head refurb?

[xman]

Repeatadly going over old ground is not very helpful.

Pappafox hasnt helped himself by dripfeeding information in an order he thinks is significant. The battery issue is a fundamental one, all modern cars rely on a healthy electrical supply.

There is also some missing and misleading information posted, not deliberate, but it leads to people here perhaps reacting when they wouldnt otherwise.

As far as I can make out, pappafox's issues have been ongoing and/or deteriorating for a considerable time before he decided to seek help. It looks as if his neighbour/friend measured/said he had low compression and his opinion was that these engines often have head/valve problems - which is true - except that pappafox took it to heart and came on this forum for advice, but before any real figures/diagnosis was discussed in depth, pappafox gave the go ahead for a specialist to fix the car. I personally think he possibly steered them or maybe even instructed them to refurb the head, as no specialists diagnosis was forthcoming.

Then he complains about the price. I always moan about price, its a bad habit of mine. But first he says its cost £800, which is high, but later on he reveals a bunch of other work was done, pads and discs, and the head work was £650, except it might have included coils and plugs. So the price was not so bad perhaps.

At least we now know that the mechanical bits of the engine are ok after another compression test turned out fine.

After requests for diagnostic information we still dont have any fault codes, just a possible diagnosis of injector problems arrived by disconnecting injectors in turn, compounded by heresay about sooty deposits in cylinder 2.

There are a couple of suggestions that pappafox is taking his time in persuing, possibly because he cant find time to do them.

If pappafox wants to fix this problem without spending much money, he needs to roll his sleeves up and get into diy. A vcds cable can be bought for under £10 next day delivery, ok, you need a laptop too, but you need the right tools to have any chance of diy.

In the meantime, running the injector cleaner through is a low cost thing, that might just work, and wont do any harm, but you need time and patience and the right technique to give it a chance to work. You also need to accept that it may not work.

Otherwise he is going to need the help of his skoda dealer, which isnt going to be cheap and maybe hazardous in itself depending on their expertise.

Pappafox should ALWAYS OBTAIN PRICE QUOTES BEFORE ANY WORK IS DONE. Obviously he needs to bear in mind how much his 8 year old car is really worth to him. Sometimes you have to know when to quit if gambling.

Edited 20 October, 2014 by xman

[freelanderman]

I have to agree with everything xman says, their is little point in asking for advice on a forum unless you provide accurate and relevant information. From what I read so far a comprehensive diagnostic inspection hasn't been carried out, also no mention of a full service being done.

The only way forward if pappafox doesn't have the skills and equipment is to trust in a reputable garage or main dealer.

[Pappafox]

Thanks guys

 

There has been no intentional way of misleading or not giving accurate information. It's as I remember/report it.

 

I have acted in good faith. sorry you see it differently.

 

I'm no mechanic or specialist.

 

The price for the head work was £650 nothing else.  The pads and discs were £143.88 inc VAT on top of the £650.

 

Addditionally, I have  paid for coils £70 and plugs £12 extra myself. 

Maybe I mislead the guys on telling them what I had heard. Regardless a good mechanic/garage should take what a supposed punter says with a pinch of salt and carry out their own tests. Yes I should have probed them more for feedback.

 

 

The car battery was fine when it went to the garage and because I believed...quite rightly in retrospect that I'd been mugged for pads and discs (£143.88 inc VAT)  I thought the garage was taking the mucky saying the battery was duff.

 

How do I know they didn't put a duff battery back on the car ?

 

I am well prepared to spend money (too easily from what I've done so far)....it isn't an issue ...I just want to solve the problem on this car and get it running again.

 

I take all the points about being too hasty, dithering etc but I really do appreciate the help you have put forward.

 

I'm no gambler ...quite the contrary actually.. too cautious.

 

I've had other personal issues to deal with this week, hence the ack of response until now  and at the weekend will get round to resolving the issues on this motor one way or another .

 

Will let you know the outcome.

[xman]

Points taken, please dont take anything we say here personally, we are all trying to help you get a good result.

 

Good luck, keep posting....

[freelanderman]

Are things getting any better with your car,

[Pappafox]

No. Still the same engine management light circa 3500 rpm . Juddering .

[Pappafox]

have located what I believe is  a scrap injector rail with in hectors for £20

 

Part number quoted is 03E 133 20A Can anyone verify ? Also does anyone know the injector part number?