KESSY - theft vulnerability?

[docc]

Watchdog ran a piece tonight on thefts of cars with keyless entry systems, and it featured elsewhere on the BBC the other day.  BMWs were mentioned, along with VW/Audi.  I wonder how safe the Skoda system is, given that it will be identical to the VW/Audi system.

 

Or maybe nobody wants to steal a Yeti?  :sun:

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29786320

[Ryeman]

Each nation has it's own level of criminality.

Japan doesn't experience car theft to any significant degree and that's why they trail in serious preventative measures.

[Macdemon]

My Yeti has a key, and it's kept in a lock garage overnight.

[x19]

I think the answer is in the single line 2nd paragraph of Docc's post - Yeti owners can sleep peacefully in their beds at night!

[7029bob]

My Yeti has a key, and it's kept in a lock garage overnight.

Yes but where's the Yeti kept?   Sorry could'nt help myself

[Obadiah]

Just ordered a Yeti for SWMBO. Didn't go for the keyless entry, as I felt it reduces security when she is parked in dark backmstreets!

[Ryeman]

Just ordered a Yeti for SWMBO. Didn't go for the keyless entry, as I felt it reduces security when she is parked in dark backmstreets!

I would have thought it was even safer as you don't have to indicate your pulling out your key as you approach the car.......you just walk along then do a snap turn , press the button and your in and lock the door also once your in.

Better than having the bunch of keys in your hand I would have thought.

[Macdemon]

Yes but where's the Yeti kept?   Sorry could'nt help myself

 

'Somewhere in East Sussex.    

 

I live next to the house with the tabby cat which sleeps on the back well

[Sporky McGuffin]

I don't think Skodas are as desirable to the thieves. From the articles I've seen they're specifically after S-line Audis, Range Rovers and M-sport BMWs, and they're generally going to Eastern Europe where Skodas are pretty common. If they've got the choice of taking a £40k+ car or a £20-25k car, and both are the same effort, they won't go for the Skoda.

[GeoffH]

I have KESSY on my Tig and have to say I think it's fantastic and couldn't be without it (especially when it's raining!)

I think those of us with VW and Skodas are pretty safe. The villains are after BMWs, Mercs, Audis etc.

I'm not worried at all.... Im insured anyway!

[bluecar1]

question, with the keyless entry does it unlock the whole car? or just the drivers door (like first push of the button)

 

as if whole car, less secure than a keyfob as in a dark side road an undesirable could open the other doors

 

also I like a key, as an undesirable still needs a key to start the car

 

also is there a steering lock on cars with keyless entry / start?

 

I am looking at the new fabia 3 and have discounted the SE L (elegance) due to keyless entry / start purely as I see it as less secure, I will be interested to see what the insurance groups will be? will they include a loading for keyless entry / start?

 

also those saying skoda's are not desirable, read the article, fiesta's and focus's are also starting to be targets, so if daganham dustbins are targeted, why not a quality VAG car like a skoda?

[aerofurb]

From the FL Yeti brochure:

 

'The following central locking functions can be set via the MAXI DOT display.....

>>

>>

Unlocking the vehicle with the KESSY system

This function enables you to unlock all the doors, individual doors, both doors on

the left or right vehicle side. The other doors, the fuel filler flap and the boot lid

remain locked and are only unlocked after being opened again.'

 

The key has to be pretty close to the start/stop switch to enable the engine to be started - standing just outside the door results in a 'key not found' warning. It works if the key is within the car interior from what I have found.

 

The steering is electrically powered and seems to be electro/mechanically locked - the wheel kicks slightly when switching on the ignition.

 

I think KESSY is really good.

[Ryeman]

If an undesirable drove off without the/a key it wouldn't get far surely, assuming the spare is not in it?

[Sporky McGuffin]

also those saying skoda's are not desirable, read the article, fiesta's and focus's are also starting to be targets, so if daganham dustbins are targeted, why not a quality VAG car like a skoda?

I did read the article. It actually says that there is some evidence that the Fords are affected by the same vulnerability, not that they are being targeted.

[docc]

I did read the article. It actually says that there is some evidence that the Fords are affected by the same vulnerability, not that they are being targeted.

That's not the way I read it - 

 

“Whilst BMWs and Audis appeared to be the early targets, it’s fair to say that this was largely associated with their desirability across Europe, rather than any specific security lapse.  Recently we’ve seen evidence of a range of makes and models being affected, including the Ford Fiesta and Focus, Range Rover Evoque and also now including light commercial vehicles such as the volume-selling Ford Transit and Mercedes Sprinter.”

 

They're discussing the thefts here, rather than the keyless system vulnerability.  A £50,000 car is more attractive than a £20,000 car, obviously, but thieves aren't going to turn down any car, provided it's saleable.  Insurers are refusing to insure some cars in central London already, but sadly these things spread.  A locked garage is the best solution!

[bluecar1]

I think the wording is ambiguous, it can be interpreted either way

 

my interpretation is that fiesta and focus are being targeted and I have reservations, obviously the top end models are more at risk than a skoda, but there is a risk (same as there is a risk a burglar taking your keys)

 

for now, I personally will avoid keyless systems until I am satisfied with the safety and security of the systems

 

I will watch with interest and see if insurance companies seem to consider them a risk due to higher premiums and see how things progress

[ddyer79]

question, with the keyless entry does it unlock the whole car? or just the drivers door (like first push of the button)

 

as if whole car, less secure than a keyfob as in a dark side road an undesirable could open the other doors

 

also I like a key, as an undesirable still needs a key to start the car

 

also is there a steering lock on cars with keyless entry / start?

 

I am looking at the new fabia 3 and have discounted the SE L (elegance) due to keyless entry / start purely as I see it as less secure, I will be interested to see what the insurance groups will be? will they include a loading for keyless entry / start?

 

also those saying skoda's are not desirable, read the article, fiesta's and focus's are also starting to be targets, so if daganham dustbins are targeted, why not a quality VAG car like a skoda?

I am confused - why is Kessy less secure ?

I cannot leave the key in the car and lock the doors, I cannot start the car without a key in the car ( which also unlocks the electro-mechanical steering lock), I have all the lock/unlock combinations through the maxidot a car with a key has, yet I have the convenience of not having to get the key out of my pocket on arrival at the car and I do not have a set of keys jangling in the lock as I drive along.

Once in the car with the doors locked the doors cannot be opened from the outside so what is the issue.

Oh, I know the TV and tabloid press say they are easy targets. What they fail to say is the technology needed to do this is quite sophisticated tool 1) to get in the car and 2) to fool the car there is a valid key in the car.

It's that old adage, you will never stop a determined thief no matter what alarm, key system, garage etc., you have - if they want your car they'll get it. Keyless or not.

Edited 3 November, 2014 by ddyer79

[rockhopper]

I've used a BMW with Keyless entry and it was great. It would not let me shut the boot of the car with the key in my jacket pocket in the boot.

I recently had the pleasure of driving a Nissan Lesf with keyless entry. I also feel it is safer for the above mentioned reasons. When the car was shut with the drivers window open and the salesman outside the door holding the key it would not start.

[mannyo]

I am confused - why is Kessy less secure ?

I cannot leave the key in the car and lock the doors, I cannot start the car without a key in the car ( which also unlocks the electro-mechanical steering lock), I have all the lock/unlock combinations through the maxidot a car with a key has, yet I have the convenience of not having to get the key out of my pocket on arrival at the car and I do not have a set of keys jangling in the lock as I drive along.

Once in the car with the doors locked the doors cannot be opened from the outside so what is the issue.

Oh, I know the TV and tabloid press say they are easy targets. What they fail to say is the technology needed to do this is quite sophisticated tool 1) to get in the car and 2) to fool the car there is a valid key in the car.

It's that old adage, you will never stop a determined thief no matter what alarm, key system, garage etc., you have - if they want your car they'll get it. Keyless or not.

 

Kessy keeps the canbus alive otherwise it would not work, therefore all you need is access to the canbus to access the ECU with these special tools. You then program a new key into the ECU, start the car and drive off.

[Sporky McGuffin]

Given that the effort is the same to steal any vulnerable vehicle, what thief bright enough to work the technology is going to be thick enough to steal a Fiesta rather than a Range Rover?

[ExpatHotspur]

They use radio transmitters to obtain the remote signal your key sends to the cars computer when you press the fob/ when the car senses the key is in in proximity. The original key need never leave your hand/ pocket/ hook etc. Once in the car, they connect to the diagnostic port in the car, and using electronic tools freely available due to lack of legislation to prevent main dealer having monopoly on Key coding, code a blank key with the relevant information to start the car, and drive it away without damage to windows or ignition. I've seen video example footage of this happening in 30 seconds or so.

 

And don't kid yourself, yes a Skoda/ VW/ Ford is less valuable per say than most premium marques, but they are still valuable, the thieves are organised and will work an area systematically with knowledge of which models/ trims within each Brand have the Kessy as standard. I am getting GAP with my Kessy car, and might look into the effectiveness of a diagnostic port lock. Some people independently wire hidden ignition cut off switches as non standard accessories to secure the car. But ultimately, if they want it, its gone, this is what insurance is for.

[Ryeman]

I'd think there's a large market in the Ford spares/ mods supplied by the unscrupulous to the second hand parts market .

Focus/Fiesta are popular 'project' cars in the UK I would have thought and lots of them.