Sticky vanes returning

[adamal]

I did the Mr Muscle sticky vanes treamtent this summer to initially good effect in curing limp mode on my pre FL Octavia with BKD engine.  However, I have recently noticed the slight whoosing that comes with gear changes under lighter acceleration returning which I reckon is a sign the sticky vanes are coming back already, suggesting I guess a pretty bad case of turbo clogging.

 

My question is does this treatment need to happen as frequently as say once or twice a year?  Or is now the time to possibly try some turbo cleaner type stuff?  When I did the treatment the actuator was very very stiff although I did get it moving quite freely in the end.  

 

I don't mind doing it again once every couple of years but as it is a horribly fiddly job on this engine with the EGR cooler in place, once every few months is going to be a bit of a pain.

 

Thanks

Adam

[tamiyaandy]

Just for interest, I get a nice Whoosh sound when changing gear and if I boost up then lift off suddenly.

 

But I have no sticky vanes, No limp mode, Engine pulls perfect through all gears and revs.

 

So is the Whoosh sound just normal? I Know Variable Vane Turbo's have no Wastegate, So whats the Whoosh!??

[adamal]

I'm not sure, but it appeared over the period before I did the treatment, then seemingly went away after the treatment, but is getting noticeable again now.

 

Its a faint almost coughing sound as I lift off the clutch back onto the accelerator, and only seems to occur on lighter acceleration.  I wouldn't call mine a 'nice' sound, as its a bit irritatiing and it would be too quiet to record.  For now, like yours, the engine seems fine and there is no limp mode, so I am not overly worried, but I think something isn't quite as free as it should be.  I wish I understood the turbo better really.

 

Adam

[tamiyaandy]

I just tend to read up on stuff so I can understand, If the vanes were sticking i'm sure you would get other symptoms, like hesitation, over fuelling, Lack of Boost etc, I ran my car with Dashcommand App and it always peaks at around 20 Psi Boost.

 

I am tempted to record mine, It really sounds rather nice to me, you cant hear it in the cabin with the windows up, but drop the drivers window down, pop it in 2nd and accelerate hard to just 2000 RPM then lift off and its clear to hear.

[radders567]

If you think it might be getting sticky again just try moving it first with your thumb to confirm before carrying out the work.

[adamal]

tamiyaandy: Yeah I try and read up too but I'm really busy with work and in the house at present so I don't have a lot of time. I'd be interested in your recording.  Having listened again to mine it tends to be as I change up and it comes as I actually depress the clutch pedal and goes as I accelerate.  If I am accelerating harder I can't hear it but that is probably engine noise masking it.

 

radders: it has occurred to me but its sadly very hard to get to on the BKD engine unless you have tiny hands with ultra strong thumbs!

[dara85]

I'm too having similar sound when changing gears but my Octy has small running problems (see here)

so if it means sticky vanes then good news for me .

 

Anyway how exactly did you access the turbo if I may ask?

[adamal]

See: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/243533-the-mr-muscle-vnt-turbo-treatment-thought-we-needed-a-guide-of-sorts/page-12?hl=%2Bmuscle#entry3998293

 

I didn't access the turbo as such just the opening at the egr pipe and then fed the silicone pipe into it to apply the Mr Muscle.  Even that is well fiddly on the BKD engine.

[tamiyaandy]

I must admit I have not tried to see how free the movement is on the actuator that moves the vanes, cos as you say it appears to be way down the back of the Engine, and I'm reluctant to disturb anything based on the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

1.9 BXE engine.

[adamal]

Absolutely.  I just figure in my case its on the way back due to the sound returning.  There's no other symptoms yet so I might actually try the Forte turbo cleaner.  For the sake of a few quid I can't see it doing any harm and if the sound goes again I'll know a bit more.

[Phil-E]

It could be that it's too clogged up for the Mr Muscle for shift enough of the muck.

 

The forte cleaner is worth a shot. Leave it for as long as possible to break down as much as possible.

 

Just for interest, I get a nice Whoosh sound when changing gear and if I boost up then lift off suddenly.

 

But I have no sticky vanes, No limp mode, Engine pulls perfect through all gears and revs.

 

So is the Whoosh sound just normal? I Know Variable Vane Turbo's have no Wastegate, So whats the Whoosh!??

 

I've noticed that my 1.9 BXE makes a whoosh kind of sound on lift of too.

 

You can hear it if you're just sat with the engine running then rev the engine.

[adamal]

Thanks phil. Does it just go in the fuel tank? If so how do you mean leave it?

[Phil-E]

Oh sorry. I got it confused with something else.

 

So it's a fuel additive... not entirely sure how it's going to help much with sticking turbo vanes.

 

Although I guess the turbo is powered from the exhaust gasses that have just come from the cylinders where the fuel in burnt so I guess it's not too hard to believe they could formulate something that is designed to burn and produce gasses etc that are able to clean soot etc.

[adamal]

There is stuff that goes straight into the turbo which I suspect you meant? Innotec or something its called but its presumably as much hassle as mr muscle...

[radders567]

tamiyaandy: Yeah I try and read up too but I'm really busy with work and in the house at present so I don't have a lot of time. I'd be interested in your recording.  Having listened again to mine it tends to be as I change up and it comes as I actually depress the clutch pedal and goes as I accelerate.  If I am accelerating harder I can't hear it but that is probably engine noise masking it.

 

radders: it has occurred to me but its sadly very hard to get to on the BKD engine unless you have tiny hands with ultra strong thumbs!

Its easier to access from underneath. I thread a piece of wire through to the engine bay and then get two people to work it up and down.

[radders567]

There is stuff that goes straight into the turbo which I suspect you meant? Innotec or something its called but its presumably as much hassle as mr muscle...

You could try a REVIVE treatment. But remember you will need VCDS to clear the fault code after you have finished.

[adamal]

I have vcds. I will look that up cheers.

[adamal]

That Revive looks interesting but expensive. However, I think stuff sprayed into the turbo presumably must work better than something added to the fuel?  I've noticed Wynn's turbo cleaner can be used like that too, so toying with trying that first for the sake of a tenner.  Anyone had any luck with Wynn's??

 

Also I presume cleaning the EGR valve might help too and it is quite easy access on the BKD 140 engine?

 

Ta

Adam

[radders567]

I tend to clean the EGR valve every year on my mates 140 bkd as its so easy to access. I found it was always worth doing.

[adamal]

Can't do any harm I figure.  Will do that before trying anything else, all the in tank / squirt in materials sound a bit like snake-oil the more I read on it...

[radders567]

I have used the revive kit a couple of times. (Mixed results) One turbo was fully stuck with the lever not moving at all.  It did free it off but it was still a little sticky. As a maintenance treatment I found it to be pretty good but expensive.

[adamal]

Ok cheers.

[mroberts]

I have just done an EGR delete from Darkside on my 2.0 140PD BKD with 110k

I reckon including Darkside kit, exhaust clamps, new inlet pipe retaining spring, inlet manifold gasket, and carb cleaner and some gunk £150. plus beer for stress relief and satisfaction

 

It did take forever taking everything off including the cooler and i stripped the inlet manifold off and cleaned that too so the whole intake system is nice and clean.

 

I used the Innotec Kit. Dead easy to use if you cut the cardboard correctly and cover it in Cling film so it doesnt soak through and go soggy, i was cautious to only leave it an hour though, but maybe next time a bit longer.

 

I could hardly move the vanes before now they go the full stroke as i sat there looking like a berk pumping them whilst the cleaner was in to make sure they were fully cleaned.

 

I think the only real unknown is how well the cleaner actually flows through the vanes and appertures until it turns to gel to get working, we will see how long it lasts.

 

However i reckon it was well worth the cost. I also replaced the Exhaust clamp so next time it will be much easier to remove.

 

If i needed to clean the turbo again i could get the cleaner in it within 10 minutes from below, but actually getting the pipe in to spray the cleaner is easier from above and you only need to remove the MAF and airbox to get enough access without the EGR cooler being there.

 

Having done about 400 hard miles over the weekend i can say its like driving a new car, no dust clouds when booting it either.

All i need now is a remap and job done.

 

I will update with some pics later.

Edited 2 December, 2014 by mroberts

[mroberts]

Inlet manifold off and inlets all cleaned.

Then the finished job.

I even suggested to darkside that they should use. Shorter 25 mm screws on the delete pipe - inlet manifold and 25mm bolts n nyloc nuts for the ASV as that would make life a whole lot easier re-assembling the whole thing for that last awkward fixing.

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