Locking wheel nuts - Grrrrh

[Ooopnorth]

This afternoon I've attempted to switch the summer alloys and tyres over to the winter set.  Front wheels were changed and replaced, no bother and then........the locking nut on the rear near side refused to budge with the locking socket simply slipping off as soon as any pressure was applied. It would grip if I put the torque wrench in the tighten position but not otherwise.  I tried various wrench types to give me a different angle etc. but still no joy.  Even a couple of bops with the impact driver, still no movement.  The other wheel nuts on both rear wheels would move readily.

 

A quick check of the rear offside wheel produced the same result.  A closer examination suggests the socket does seem a little burred but not hugely so, and I couldn't understand why the front set of wheels were changed so easily.  The rear bolts with the lock on also look generally fine.

 

With a mild panic setting in that I might be stuck with rear summer tyres and front winters I set to 'unreplacing' the front wheels wondering if the socket would work. As it was there were no problems, neat and tight, easily able to take the winters back off and tighter the summers back on (120 Nw).

 

I've now ordered a new set of lockable wheel nuts (Genuine Skoda - £20.00 plus postage) and my local engineering firm who also couldn't wrench them off assured me that they will be able to do so if i bring the Yeti in next week (fingers crossed they are able to and that I don't get a rear puncture over the intervening period).  The present lockable socket has an 'S' stamped on the rear.  Skoda parts said it would cost £31.00 plus postage for just the socket replacement, so it seems a no-brainer to order the cheaper kit with 4 new unblemished bolts too!

 

I've always switched the wheels over myself for the past three winters and springs without problems and I'm really careful with threads etc. so I can't fathom why this has happened.  

 

I'm thinking that when I eventually have the locking nuts replaced I might specifically only tighten these to 80 - 90 Nws unlike the other bolts?  Maybe some patterns of locking socket are more prone to wear than others?

 

Any thoughts or suggests as to how to avoid this in the future would be much appreciated.

 

Edited 5 December, 2014 by Ooopnorth

[Toxicvrs]

Never use an impact gun or put unnessecary forces on these newer sockets as they're useless. Make sure the socket on the breaker bar is held level with the nut.

[john999boy]

Make sure the socket on the breaker bar is held level with the nut.

 

....and pressed firmly up to it too.

[eribaMotters]

 

With a mild panic setting in that I might be stuck with rear summer tyres and front winters I set to 'unreplacing' the front wheels wondering if the socket would work. As it was there were no problems, neat and tight, easily able to take the winters back off and tighter the summers back on (120 Nw).

 

 

Any chance when you fitted last you set torque wrench to 120 ft/lb instead of Nm by mistake?

This would be over 160Nm, and possibly account for the problem.

 

Colin

Edited 5 December, 2014 by eribaMotters

[Llanigraham]

Myself, and a few others, have removed the locking wheel nuts and replaced them with normal nuts.

Wheel theft is now not common.

[Toxicvrs]

To be honest if someone really wants that set of wheels then they'll get them off anyway

[spottydog]

Myself, and a few others, have removed the locking wheel nuts and replaced them with normal nuts.

Wheel theft is now not common.

 

Same here with my last few cars after I had a similar scenario to the OP with a locking bolt.. On ordinary cars alloys are now just "normal" wheels. A bit different with prestige cars or high end alloys.

[Ooopnorth]

Myself, and a few others, have removed the locking wheel nuts and replaced them with normal nuts.

Wheel theft is now not common.

Yes that makes good sense. I'll order some standard bolts too and use the new lockable set for when I eventually sell the Yeti.

[Ooopnorth]

Any chance when you fitted last you set torque wrench to 120 ft/lb instead of Nm by mistake?

This would be over 160Nm, and possibly account for the problem.

 

Colin

Good point but I'm quite careful about these details.  It was definitely 120 Nm.

[JCP]

I had the same problem with locking nuts and dispensed with them on my first Yeti and had them removed on delivery with my second. I think it is far less likely that someone will pinch my wheels than that I might be stranded with a workable spare and jack and my extendable wheel wrench but unable to overcome a recalcitrant locking nut.

[wakev]

Have you tried parking next to a wall and putting a jack between the wall and socket t bar,   to put a good amount of pressure to stop it slipping out of the bolt, might work.

[ben4012]

Myself, and a few others, have removed the locking wheel nuts and replaced them with normal nuts.

Wheel theft is now not common.

Hope you informed your insurance company.

[Llanigraham]

Hope you informed your insurance company.

 

Do please provide us with your esteemed reasoning for that?

[ben4012]

Simply because the car is not as it left the factory and removing a security device increases the risk of theft. You are quick enough to say the same as soon as anyone else makes a minor modification.

[Toxicvrs]

Simply because the car is not as it left the factory and removing a security device increases the risk of theft. You are quick enough to say the same as soon as anyone else makes a minor modification.

Depends if the locking nuts fitted are aftermarket or factory anyway

[ben4012]

AFAIK all alloys across the vag range come with locking bolts.

[wiilydog]

Had a similar problem with my octy, any place with wheel lock remover set will able to remove them. I replaced the skoda ones with mcgard ones instead as the pattern seems better designed compared to the original skoda spine type design

Edited 5 December, 2014 by wiilydog

[oldstan]

Here's a submission that'll start an argument:  Every time I swap my winters over (Spring and Autumn, obviously) I clean and polish the wheels and check treads etc....BUT here comes the fly in the ointment......I smear a bit of copper grease on the threads and the mating surfaces of the studs as well as the wheel/hub mating surfaces.  I understand the wheel/hub is universally approved of as it helps with the reaction between alloy and steel (or something along those lines)....but I've seen vehement debate about greasing the threads (in fact I might have got involved in such exchanges in the past).

 

However, I never have any trouble removing the wheels due to them being stuck to the hubs - and - I don't have any trouble undoing the wheel nuts either.

 

By doing this twice yearly procedure I know I'll be able to get a wheel off in the event of a puncture.

 

Whether it's hazardous seems arguable but I'm inclined to carry on exercising care when tightening them up and checking for tightness with the wrench held at the right angle etc and  and haven't lost a wheel yet.

Edited 6 December, 2014 by oldstan

[Norry]

Here's a submission that'll start an argument:  Every time I swap my winters over (Spring and Autumn, obviously) I clean and polish the wheels and check treads etc....BUT here comes the fly in the ointment......I smear a bit of copper grease on the threads and the mating surfaces of the studs as well as the wheel/hub mating surfaces.  I understand the wheel/hub is universally approved of as it helps with the reaction between alloy and steel (or something along those lines)....but I've seen vehement debate about greasing the threads (in fact I might have got involved in such exchanges in the past).

 

However, I never have any trouble removing the wheels due to them being stuck to the hubs - and - I don't have any trouble undoing the wheel nuts either.

 

By doing this twice yearly procedure I know I'll be able to get a wheel off in the event of a puncture.

 

Whether it's hazardous seems arguable but I'm inclined to carry on exercising care when tightening them up and checking for tightness with the wrench held at the right angle etc and  and haven't lost a wheel yet.

 

 

Hear!  Hear!  I do the same and have on every car I've owned. 

Edited 6 December, 2014 by Norry

[spottydog]

I know what you mean about the grease. During my apprenticeship many moons ago all torque settings were without grease. Nowadays some applications on certain machines use settings that include grease being used. However, I have always used copperslip and no torque wrench on all my wheel studs/nuts and never had one slacken off. But, I have worked with hand tools for 40 years at work and home. The only time I use a torque wrench are with alloy components eg. cylinder head bolts.

[Llanigraham]

I've done the same for years and never had a problem.

[g6zru]

Likewise.

I tend to treat torque settings not as "they have to be at this torque" but rather using the torque wrench results in all nuts being equally tight and therefore exerting equal pressure.

 

Fred

[thingy]

Snap to the above 4 posts, not counting the post from 'g6zru'

Just changed the Yeti wheels back to front, and of course front to back.

One thing I did find was that the rear wheels bolts were a lot tighter than the front, strange.

Just to upset a few (not in a nasty way) I have 2 lock bolts on each wheel (different types but still Skoda brand).

Edited 6 December, 2014 by thingy

[rarrar]

I had the same problem with locking nuts and dispensed with them on my first Yeti and had them removed on delivery with my second. I think it is far less likely that someone will pinch my wheels than that I might be stranded with a workable spare and jack and my extendable wheel wrench but unable to overcome a recalcitrant locking nut.

Agree, couldnt remove my alloys and neither could the local tyre fitter, its the socket which gets damaged too easily ( used 3 times), - had a 100mile round trip to my local Skoda dealer who removed the locking wheel nuts and replaced them with non-locking versions apparently a common job !

Glad I found out the problem when I did the risk of having a non-repairable puncture and the wheel not being removeable is too high for me.

[muddyboots]

I'm in the greasy thread camp too