winter use advice

[dbg400]

I bought a set of alloys & winter tyres while I was waiting for my Yeti to arrive - they arrived in a lot less than six months and gave me something to look at in the meantime!

 

On the Yeti was the first time I've tried winter tyres, and they've been extremely good in the cold and wet. They haven't seen much snow, but they proved much better on a steep hill in a neighbouring village than the summer tyres on a TT last winter - watching all four wheels spinning was entertaining!

 

I'm fortunate that I have somewhere to store them, and swapping them over myself saves the tyre hotel fee (from £120/year at my local dealers), and the original Dunlops are lasting longer as around 13K of the 32K the car has done have been on the winters.

 

Even when we've had warm spells of up to 20C I've not noticed any degradation in performance in the winter tyres, so I don't see any downsides to having them if you can cover the original outlay and storage.

 

SWMBO doesn't do the mileage to warrant separate sets of tyres - all short local trips and < 5K/year, so we put Goodyear Vector 4Seasons on her i10. They appear to be a good compromise, with summer performance not noticeably poorer than when on the previous summer tyres, and the 4Seasons ability in rain, sleet & snow has been excellent.

[pgp001]

We had a bit of snow over the tops of the hills last night, so I made it my business to go and have a play on my way to work.

By the time I set off the slushy road had started to freeze over, despite my best efforts at trying to lose grip I couldn't make it spin at all.

I got no impression at all that the fronts were losing grip and Haldex was kicking in ( which is what I was hoping to test to make sure it actually works), so it must be down to the Goodyear 4 Seasons tyres.

 

On a different point, my old RAV 4 which was permanent mechanical 4x4 was very good downhill as well as uphill in the snow, that did give four wheel engine braking and was very controllable downhill if kept in a low gear and steady speed. The main thing to remember was not to touch the brakes at all, and let the engine take you down.

I am talking 1 in 5 hills on single track moorland roads with dry stone walls either side by the way, so one slip and your into a wall. The car had OEM Bridgstone summer tyres fitted and would go anywhere you pointed it.

 

I am now waiting for a bit more serious snow to see how the Yeti "off road" hill decent system copes in similar situations. I have been told to switch the traction control off in snow, has anyone got first hand experience of what to do regarding "off road" and "traction control" switching in the snow ??

 

Phil

Edited 12 December, 2014 by pgp001

[Llanigraham]

, it begs the question, why have 4WD in the first place?

 

Because my hobby entails me in driving to places lots of people would think thrice about driving to!

 

(and no that isn't a spelling mistake!!)

[wiilydog]

here's a good demo on autocar

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I ran my first Yeti on summers in the first bad snow year a few back, and in some respects it was worse than FWD - in particular, going carefully onto roundabouts with even the slightest whiff of right foot meant the fronts lost grip, at which point the Haldex shifted a lot of power to the rears and the car pivoted rather rapidly around its midpoint. I'd previously done some skidpan training and driven my dear old mum's MGF in snow so straightened it out OK (I assume it was actually the electronics doing the hard work there), but it was a bit hairy. It did go up hills better than the FWD car that I had before it, but no better down or around corners.

 

On winter tyres packed snow is like driving on summers in a lot of rain. Serious care still required, but orders of magnitude more traction, grip and stopping power than on summers. I might have a FWD or RWD car in future, but I won't use summers in winter again.

 

I've had my winter wheels (Michelin Alpine A4s on steel 16s) for about 4 years now and they still have plenty of grip. Usually I swap 'em myself in about an hour and a half (with a proper trolley jack, breaker bar, socket set and torque wrench), last Spring I had eTyres turn up and do them all in under ten minutes for £25. The unused wheels sit in a stack in the shed happily enough.

 

You will have to put up with a few idiots telling you that putting winter tyres on will result in you driving like a lunatic, or getting stuck behind a broken down bus, or having dozens of other cars pile into the back of you, but in every conceivable scenario you're better off with the winters than without.

Edited 13 December, 2014 by Sporky McGuffin

[Rustynuts]

Had that discussion on another forum where someone said that there was no point fitting winter tyres because you'd still be stuck behind someone else, and if you managed to brake in an emergency then it just meant someone would run into the back of you, so it was pointless.

 

Then someone said that if it snowed or conditions worsened then he'd either slow down and drive accordingly or stay at home. I asked the question "If you start sliding down a hill towards a pedestrian crossing or suchlike, is that the time you'd decide to stay at home or would you slow down and drive accordingly?" Strangely, I got no answer.

[eribaMotters]

For those who are not aware a general note for owners of 2WD Yetis, and all front wheel drive cars.

When you get into a skid remove the cause. This is usually excessive speed, so foot off the gas. Do NOT attempt to steer until traction has returned. If you do so it will have little effect, other than pulling you off in an unknown direction once the tyres get some grip back, as you do not know which way the wheels ar pointing.

 

Colin

[x19]

Because my hobby entails me in driving to places lots of people would think thrice about driving to!

 

(and no that isn't a spelling mistake!!)

I think he was questioning his own reason for needing AWD.

[Duck_Pond]

I've been running Goodyear 4 Seasons on mine for a couple of years now and they're fine. You need to understand that they are a bit of a compromise, so in hot weather they do squeal when cornering too hard and in snow / ice, they may lose traction also in cornering. I have just learned to judge what speeds are safe for using them.

 

I've driven mine all over Scotland, in all weathers, including deep snow. Never had any problems - even drove up & down the Bealach na Bà pass (Applecross) after it had snowed.

 

I like the convenience of them given the huge fluctuation in the range of temperatures we have in the UK. And they seem to last a long time too.

[Peter a Proud Yorkshireman]

I live halfway up one of the designated climbs on the Tour de France "Cote de Greet land " near junc 24 M62 climb from 300 ft to just short of 1000 ft.

Last winter was disappointing no snow but previous year loads of snow and Yorkie was great when went out playing up on the tops. The Goodyear GW3s are excellent and a much better ride than the 17 inch Pirellis which have become really noisy and bumpy now they are down to 3/4mm.

Cheers

Peter.

[Ooopnorth]

4x4 will give you the advantage of traction to get moving and to climb the hills but when you get to the down-hills or you need to brake, even gently, it has NO advantage, as I have previously said.

It is the same comment that is said by lots of new, untrained, inexperienced 4x4 owners when they come for training and has often been the first thing that we have disproved. Even a small slope can quickly become a toboggan run when the brakes are even gently on. Gravity is a far bigger force than people expect!

 

Engine braking is no better with the 4x4. On a trailing or no throttle there is does not appear to be any drive to the rear axle, which is why I would never recommend people to use the Hill Descent system in neutral; there are occasions where a gentle and quick "squirt" of power can be used to keep things under control.

 

So when faced with a downhill run in snow, what would you say is the best (least worse!) option? First gear with hill descent control on and leave the brake pedal well alone?

[Llanigraham]

So when faced with a downhill run in snow, what would you say is the best (least worse!) option? First gear with hill descent control on and leave the brake pedal well alone?

 

Yes.

Stop at top of hill, engage HDC, engage first gear, gently let the car do it's thing. If it does start to slide then a short but GENTLE burst acceleration may bring it back under control.

[Ryeman]

And if there is a camber as well keep as much as possible to the high side.

[muddyboots]

When you say "engage HDC"....how does one do that ? Is it just a case of pressing the off road button ?

[freedie]

It is

[Ryeman]

IIR it targets a max 4kph.

Ultimately it comes down to tyre grip.

It's no guarantee of a successful outcome, user beware.

Edited 17 December, 2014 by Ryeman

[Ooopnorth]

Yes.

Stop at top of hill, engage HDC, engage first gear, gently let the car do it's thing. If it does start to slide then a short but GENTLE burst acceleration may bring it back under control.

Thanks, that's really helpful.

[Llanigraham]

IIR it targets a max 4kph.

Ultimately it comes down to tyre grip.

It's no guarantee of a successful outcome, user beware.

 

It's a bloody site more intelligent than you might think!

User Beware applies to EVERYTHING!!

[Ryeman]

So it's the 'magic button' and tyre grip is irrelevant?

[Llanigraham]

No, and that has never been said!

[Deputy]

Just to add my £0.02 worth.  I have winter and summer for they Yeti - and except when confronted by a 2 metre high drift it really was awesome.  I was even impressed with the off road button.  With winter tyres on going down a basically sheet ice/snow steep road at 3mph I could feel it slipping.  Pressed the off road button and it was very effective, I could feel the individual wheels braking as required (and no one else came down this B road and they spent hours queuing on the gritted A road...). 

My wife had Vector 4Seasons on her SX4 4grip and even in the Yorkshire Dales they were great so in all honesty for future that's what I'm doing on my next car, especially those spring days where I can go to work in ice and come home in 12'C.  

 

I have used autosocks on a 2WD car. They were good actually in snow but the issue I have is driving home on roads going clear/snow/clear/snow etc where they just wear out on the tarmac and you can't stop every mile to swap to and fro.

[patnmand]

Llanigraham perhaps you can answer a question I've never been able to get an answer to and don't have enough steep hills to test it on. If you engage HDC and first gear, does the HDC try to maintain the speed you set? In the manual it says HDC works in Neutral, 1st, 2nd and (I think) 3rd but I've never quite understood what it will actually try to do and can't see any demos anywhere. I did try it in wales in the summer and it seemed to want to keep the car at the speed I'd set with the throttle. Is that right? Before you shoot me down in flames for being an ignoramus please understand that I bought this Yeti because I wanted a more powerful engine, not because of the 4WD. If they'd have done the 140 in a 2WD I'd happily have bought that.

 

Now, to add my tuppence worth to the winter tyre debate. I've had them on a Superb, 2WD Yeti and now on my 4WD Yeti. I wouldn't be without them. I did have socks on the Superb for a year but the problem with them is that, in order to stop them wearing out, you have to take them off when the road clears (and keep your speed right down all the time they're on). That's fine but you then have dirty wet bits of material you have to stow somewhere (and I know you get a bag, but once the inside of the bag is dirty and wet then you've got something else to worry about drying out). Also, if you subsequently need them again (as I did when arriving home for example), you have to fiddle around putting them back onto a cold snowy wheel in a wheelarch full of slush. They do the job, but they're not terribly convenient.

 

Winter tyres will outperform summer ones at any time the temperature is below 7c, they're very good in the wet and amazing on snow/ice. To me it's not a luxury so I can go and play when it snows, but a necessity. Don't I want every opportunity to be able to stop or steer my way out of trouble? If it makes the difference between a near miss or an accident then it's money well spent.

Edited 22 December, 2014 by patnmand

[Llanigraham]

Pat, if you don't ask you will never get an answer!

 

The HDC should keep the car at a set speed, and not a speed set by you. I thought that speed was about 6mph in any gear. Personally I can see no reason to use it in any gear other than 1st or reverse, although perhaps using it in 2nd or 3rd it might be useful if you had to change down to 1st. However "good practice" is that you should start the descent in the lowest gear available anyway.

 

It can be also be useful to have the ORR button "on" even if you only intend to climb something loose or muddy. If your climb fails and you stall the engine, engage reverse and without touching the key release the clutch, the engine will restart but the HDC will be "on" so keeping your speed controlled.

 

As an aside, I think the controlled speed is too high, just as it is with the Freelander, but it is better than nothing, and certainly better than letting the unskilled get into trouble.

 

I can see that if I do end up getting medically retired this year I'm going to have to arrange a day out for members here. 

[Brijo]

.....I can see that if I do end up getting medically retired this year I'm going to have to arrange a day out for members here. 

 

Whilst sincerely hoping that you don't have to go through with a medical retirement, I seem to remember that last year (?) we were looking for an excuse for a visit down the A40....

[Llanigraham]

TBH it is looking more and more likely I will be looking at that outcome, but I'm keeping a positive attitude towards my future..................