Cold Starting Issues - Running out of ideas!

[BlueVRSTom]

They checked temp sensor and it came back reading 15c colder than what it actually was. But that wouldn't cause problems surely?

The glow plug light works as it should, no problems.

No VCDS yet. Although the garage said they have their version of it and are having the car over night and testing it in morning with the equipment connected to it.

[Dread1977]

Funnily enough my car occasionally suffers from this very same issue!!! PD170 no remap and 76000 miles (07 plate)

 

It doesnt always do it and ive replaced the battery and had various scans done without error, I would be very interested to know what causes this as its bloody annoying!!! please update this thread if your garage manage to find anything.. however id like to raise here that since i had my injectors changed i feel like the car isnt as good or as quick as it was before!! just me????

[IngusSeflers]

however id like to raise here that since i had my injectors changed i feel like the car isnt as good or as quick as it was before!! just me????

That can be a reason.

 

Due to tolerances when manufacturing the injectors the injected fuel quantity may deviate between the actual and calculated fuel quantity. After manufacture these deviations are determined for every injector and a calibration value is determined, the value is converted to a code that is stamped on the injectors. This code is programmed in the engine control unit for each cylinder. Using these codes, the engine control unit corrects the calculated fuel quantity individually for each cylinder and thus improves engine operation and exhaust emissions. With this function, new calibration values can be entered in the engine control unit when replacing injectors or engine control unit. The injector code consists of 16 characters and is read out on the injector.

[Turbobell]

That coolant temp sensor will be making a mockery of any cold start map that shark or even Skoda could program.... So start there.

# occams razor [emoji6]

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[BlueVRSTom]

#Occams Razor - I know we have just started 2015 but that is with no doubt going to be the best phrase this year.

I also couldnt think of a better context to use that word in other than what you have. ' why spend loads of money on this or that when I should start on the simple options '

[Turbobell]

My first ever tutor at college said it to me when we were talking about diagnosis. And it's never led me far wrong. The unlikely and obscure is always a possibility, but it's amazing how many times you overlook the obvious, only to come back to it many £££s later.

Dale

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[craig112]

any update on this issue?

[Dread1977]

nope, mine did the worst rendition of this the other day and it was at 6pm having not been started for a few days.... this time it went as far as to start beeping at me and flashing the oil pressure light and all sorts... started eventually but getting annoyed now!!!

[Chr15D]

Hi, I dont have a PD170 but have you tried leaving it to heat until the heater relay cuts out? it takes about five or ten seconds after the light goes out... you can hear it click. I have to use it on my L200 pickup, and tried it with my Octy 1U 1.9tdi (178000 miles) this morning after changing glow plugs, battery and a new starter this week. It cranked faster after the relay cut out and fired quicker. It seems to be a general cold start fault on many engines rather than just on one specific type. Hope this helps, even if only a little.

[BlueVRSTom]

My car is going in with the garage hopefully tomorrow and if it does they are having it till the problem is fixed.

They have asked to have it for 3-4 days. I really should get a final answer for everyone on here.

Thank you Chr15D for your comment, in my case waiting for the heater to click of is not my problem as I could start my car in 15c in the middle of the day and it would still struggle.

My problem isn't temp related but is time related.

As for taking so long to crank the engine the oil light comes on - that happens to me every day I start the car.

I WILL keep this thread updated with everything as soon as anything else comes to light!

[Dread1977]

Appreciate the update VRStom and Chr15D, mine is def temp related or appears to be at least.. that said I could go home tonight, car hasnt been started for 2 days, let the glow plugs go out and it may start first time.. ill try it and update here and hopefully VRStom will have us some interesting answers in a few days..

[BlueVRSTom]

I'm in the Army and I work away in Oxford but live in Lincoln. There is 160 miles between the two.

I work Mon-Fri and need my car to commute, my car was meant to be going in with the garage tomorrow and I was going to leave it with them till Fri and I was going to get a courtesy car for the week.

They have rang just and said the courtesy car isn't available yet, so I've got at least another week to wait till the car goes in :/

[BlueVRSTom]

Quick update.

My car has come back from the garage. They cannot find a definite answer for me after extensive fault finding.

They think the ' high pressure fuel pump ' is to blame however they cannot guarantee this fully.

They have suggested to me to go to a main dealer and get them to test the pump to see if this is at fault.

If so then my garage are more than happy to fit the part for me but they don't have the equipment to test the part.

So yes that's as far as I've got so far

[silver1011]

I feel your pain guys, I've been where you are.

 

Like I mentioned my local Skoda main dealer had my car almost 20 days in the end. After trying all sorts, guided by Skoda technical support from Milton Keynes and even a live link between the car and the plant in the Czech Republic they were still stumped.

 

I had under warranty new injectors, new seals, new glowplugs, new turbo, they altered the timing, swapped out various sensors.

 

I gave up shortly after they did. I hope one of you manages to nail this once and for all!

[BlueVRSTom]

I'm very persistent and I have now accepted this as my mission to get to the bottom of this.

I will not give up nor accept defeat.

Have faith

[BlueVRSTom]

Right I've purchased a new tandem pump off ECP for £200. My garage are fitting it next Saturday.

The dealer wanted £70 to just test the original pump as its their ' hourly rate ' so I chinned that off.

http://www.eurocarparts.com/mobile/ecp/c/Skoda_Octavia_2.0_2007/p/car-parts/engine-parts/fuel-and-engine-management/fuel-pump/?441441190&1&5d0045a2d0b0fe04d8bb41e3d5ba68f17a68eaba&000148

I should now have a easy cranking car after next Saturday

[Dread1977]

Let us know how that goes fella as I'd be very interested in this, my car has suffered every year in the cold weather...

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[BlueVRSTom]

Let us know how that goes fella as I'd be very interested in this, my car has suffered every year in the cold weather...

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I shall keep this updated as anyone else with similar problems should be able to get an answer.

I would just like to reiterate that my car isn't suffering from the cold but it suffers from time stood.

It could be 20c outside but if my car hasnt been started for more than 6-8 hours then it will struggle to start.

If your fault is only in cold weather then I would be looking more towards glow plugs or glow plug relay mate.

I just don't want you forking out the wrong money for the incorrect fault.

[IngusSeflers]

Proper auto diagnostics, testing of all components helps to save money and time.
Currently being considered in all kinds of conjecture and possible faulty components without knowing their true condition.

• What is the pressure in the fuel ramp when starting the engine and at idle?
• What is the amount of fuel injected at engine start?
• What is the fuel pressure sensor and fuel temperature reading?

High-pressure pump at high mileage starts to 'eat' itself. Showing microscopic chips in the fuel system that may come to the injectors and make it difficult to start and engine performance at all.
Just thinking out loud and express my observations...

[freelanderman]

These cars dont have a fuel pressure sensor, can be tested easily with a gauge 3.5 bar at idle 7.5 bar at 4000rpm minimum readings, the high pressure is developed by the pump action in the injector.

[IngusSeflers]

Sorry, my bad... we are at PD not CR are we?    :p 

But anyway I would like to see Live Data readings before take decision about faulty pump replacement.
 

Edited 8 February, 2015 by IngusSeflers

[freelanderman]

Sorry, my bad... we are at PD not CR are we?    :p 

But anyway I would like to see Live Data readings before take decision about faulty pump replacement.

There is no live data readings for pump or injector pressure on a pd engine, the only accurate way to measure the fuel metering is with a current clamp connected to a oscilloscope, you put the clamp on the switched cable injector to ecu. You will then get a trace that shows the metering at about 2.35 ms during start up and idling.

[freelanderman]

Just out of pure interest I have just checked my tandem pump pressure to see how easy it would be, I already have a universal fuel pressure test kit bought to test one of the kids cars.

From start to finish including wahing my hands after the job took 15 mins, must be better to test first than shell our £200 on a pump you may not need. If you are relying on a garage to do the job I would expect them to have a pressure test kit.

[Dread1977]

Well mine could be time stood still as i dont use it every day due to working in London and getting the train... but it does seem to be cold related (coincidence maybe)

 

Either way, as has been mentioned in this post by all the home mechanics it would be easy for a garage to find, or not in the case of the guy who spent thousands trying to find the issue and then gave up and sold the car.... you would expect a garage to be able to find the fault (or rip you of trying as has also happened) 

 

Bottom line, everyone despite their best knowledge and regardless of live data is still just guessing... 

 

Im on the fence about keeping the car now anyway, I hear an A5 calling me....

[BlueVRSTom]

Thank you everyone again so far for all your helpful and accurate comments.

I have already purchased the pump so I may as well have it fitted ( at least it will rule another thing out )

I appreciate what is being said about testing the pump although the garage told me I had to go to a dealer as they didn't have the equipment for me specfic car as mentioned above.

Although if the pump doesn't work then I think I will be off to the dealers for some professional diagnostics/answers.