Cold Starting Issues - Running out of ideas!

[alberg]

There could be companies that will fill and bore out new holes

[freelanderman]

After what you have already spent the last thing you want to do is a bodge job, it is possible to have the cylinder head bored out and sleeves shrunk in but I dont no what the cost would be against the cost of a new cylinder head,

You could also look round for a low milage replacement engine, needs a lot of careful thought, good luck with whatever you decide. You have certainly made for some interesting discussion on this forum.

[silver1011]

Whoa, hang on a second here.

 

The dealer is blaming the fact that the injectors haven't been seated correctly? By being loose they've damaged the cylinder head making it impossible to now correctly seat the injectors and the seals?

 

Who last had the injectors out? You mentioned that you paid for new injector seals earlier on in the process?

 

Has the car had the Skoda / VOSA injector recall carried out?

 

The point I'm trying to make here is whoever failed to seat the injectors correctly is at fault here, and by all accounts it has been a Skoda dealer.

[alberg]

I agree with above.

[freelanderman]

All the trying to point the finger of blame at someone someone else is not going to work, the starting fault was there before anyone placed a spanner on the vehicle.. Injectors coming loose on this engine is not unknown, have a look at some off the VW forum.

[BlueVRSTom]

Too much to reply to every single question however, I did not have new seals - I only had new injectors. I thought the seals were replaced too but they weren't.

My cylinder head would have already been damaged before the new injectors were fitted hence why I went ahead with the new injectors to begin with.

Due to the cylinder head being damaged it caused the new injectors to be loose, score and become damaged.

The dealers aren't 100% sure what has caused this other than just unfornate wear and tear ( 07 plate 135,000 miles stage 1 map )

I will find out more as time goes on.

I haven't got time to look for a second hand engine or look around for companies offering skimming of the head nor do I wanna risk using sealant just to have the entire engine apart again 1,000 miles later to fix this permanently.

It will be easier and cheaper ( I think ) to just let the dealers sort this, once and for all and correctly.

I have a 160mile commute to work every Monday and Friday ( I work away ) so I cant do anything in the week which would only leave a Saturday to look for a garage to maybe help me out but i would need a courtesy car for the week too so I have no choice but to leave it in the dealers.

[xman]

Correctly fitted and secured injectors should not move in the lifetime of the engine no matter what the state of tune. No mechanic worth his salt would change an injector and reuse a seal. There maybe stretch bolts also involved, I don't know.

 

PD engines last much longer than 135,000 miles.

 

I agree with silver, some slipshod work is to blame. The guys who did the work would naturally deny all this.

Edited 7 March, 2015 by xman

[silver1011]

Please don't roll over and accept this, this isn't 'just one of those things', someone has cocked up somewhere along the line.

 

If the cylinder head was damaged before the new injectors were fitted then why did the guy fit the injectors? Anyone with even half a clue would have been able to spot the damage.

 

The fact the seals weren't replaced at the same time as the injectors confirms Bob the Builder has been under your bonnet at some point, probably wearing Skoda overalls.

 

No dealer is going to argue if you simply turn round and ask them to fix it.

 

Tell the dealer you smell a rat and that you aren't best pleased. Then ring Skoda UK, open a case and ask them to investigate.

 

All this costs nothing, the work you are about to sign off will cost close to £2,000, worth a shot? Hell yeah!

[BlueVRSTom]

Before trying to point blame and point fingers etc

My main focus is getting my car fixed and on the road.

Skoda want £4,314 for cylinder head replacement, injectors and seals, fuel filter and new in tank lift pump inc labour.

Obviously that is ridiculous, I considered buying a mk1 vrs and scrapping mine but I cant.

So I've got two theories;

1. Find a cylinder head specialist, get the CH repaired then have new injectors fitted with seals Etc ( hopefully no more than £1k for that )

2. Get a SH/reconditioned engine with warranty.

Also apparently my turbo sensor has been reading 1000c constant from the moment the engine is turned on ( so even when ice cold ) which has caused the injectors to work under extreme pressure and become loose, score and damage the CH...

So new turbo temp sensor, repaired CH and new injectors + seals, along with a new fuel filter and maybe just maybe the car will be sorted.

[xman]

Sounds like BS from dealer to me. ECU won't accept ridiculous readings and always goes to default value or strategy in those cases. There is no such thing as injectors under extreme pressure, indeed the worst case is at idle when the pd units pump to basically a closed volume because demand is minimal and then the pressure relief will crack at 2700 bar or whatever it is they are set at.

Maximum boost is also limited by a number of factors, unlikely to go over 2.5 bar without blowing off intercooler pipes.

The people who changed your injectors are to blame, of that I have no doubt.

If the injectors are fastened correctly into the head with NEW high tension bolts they will not move. They probably didn't change those bolts as well as the seals and didn't threadlock them.

Plenty of firms will recon your head for less than £500. Try this for starters

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CYLINDER-HEAD-SKODA-1-9TDI-PD-FABIA-OCTAVIA-ROOMSTER-SUPERB-/231166430402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35d297ccc2

I doubt very much that your lift pump is damaged, engine oil and fuel are very similar. Keep things in perspective, it was difficulty with cold starting you had, then ran OK all day according to your OP

Get several quotes from independent specialists and compare. Good luck with the repair, hope you don't stress too much!

Edited 10 March, 2015 by xman

[BlueVRSTom]

Have you got a link for the correct cylinder head? 2.0l turbo not 1.9?

I would prefer to go get this done with recon parts etc. Whats the labour for CH fitting?

They are saying the lift pump is damaged because the injectors have been scored which has caused metal shards to mix with the fuel etc.

Thank you very much!

[silver1011]

Before trying to point blame and point fingers etc

My main focus is getting my car fixed and on the road.

Skoda want £4,314 for cylinder head replacement, injectors and seals, fuel filter and new in tank lift pump inc labour.

Obviously that is ridiculous, I considered buying a mk1 vrs and scrapping mine but I cant.

So I've got two theories;

1. Find a cylinder head specialist, get the CH repaired then have new injectors fitted with seals Etc ( hopefully no more than £1k for that )

2. Get a SH/reconditioned engine with warranty.

 

I think this is where we differ in opinion.

 

I appreciate that you need to get the car back on the road and keep yourself mobile, that would be my priority too.

 

However after this I would be taking a different direction, or at least pursuing a parallel course of action in addition to the one you are taking.

 

I would very much be pointing fingers. Someone is to blame and on the information provided so far that doesn't appear to be you.

 

A call to Skoda UK will take you a couple of minutes and could result in a pleasant surprise. It might even get you 'back on the road' sooner than looking to do it all and fund it all yourself.

 

Has your call had the official VOSA injector recall done?

[Dread1977]

This topic now has me wondering if my car has been screwed in the same way!! ive suffered cold start issues since my injectors were replaced by the recall... I ended up having the car back to the garage a few times for various checks as it just didnt seem right!! low down on power etc and every time just got told thats how it is... I now suspect the injectors but loathed to bother as i think im going to rid myself of the car and get something else instead...

[xman]

Hmmm agree with silver,

 

If you have had a similar experience to Dread1977, and your problems started with an injector recall/change, then clearly the evidence start to point clearly to poor workmanship and/or faulty injectors.

 

Get Skoda UK involved...the worst they can say is go away.....

Edited 11 March, 2015 by xman

[freelanderman]

This topic now has me wondering if my car has been screwed in the same way!! ive suffered cold start issues since my injectors were replaced by the recall... I ended up having the car back to the garage a few times for various checks as it just didnt seem right!! low down on power etc and every time just got told thats how it is... I now suspect the injectors but loathed to bother as i think im going to rid myself of the car and get something else instead...

Why not start a new thread with your problem, if you suspect your injectors to be loose or the seals have failed, it is an easy fault to diagnose.

[BlueVRSTom]

Silver1011 -

I've spoke to a PD170 specialist and they've said pretty much what all you guys have been saying, no matter if any sensors had failed they would not have caused the damage that has happened.

My problem can only be down to my injectors not being fitted/tightened correctly or the seals. They said that when the car had its recall the dealers probably never changed the PD bolts ( one time use ) - this isn't down to wear and tear etc - someone somewhere is to blame.

I am going to contact Skoda UK however how Im going to try and prove the recall is to blame I do not know - my word against theres.

I just hope they foot some of the bill.

[BlueVRSTom]

Is there an up to date email I can use to send to customer services?

I'll be able to get my point across much more clearly than with a phone call.

[Kerans]

customerservices@skoda.co.uk

 

Typed and posted letter grabs the attention better than an email, in my experience! Ask for an immediate reply however you contact, so you know you've got the right address.

 

Skoda Customer Services

Selectapost 34
Sheffield
S97 3FA

[BlueVRSTom]

Top man ^ thank you

I feel it necessary to put on here what I've just sent to Skoda UK. I have removed certain words for my own privacy and replaced with *.

Dear Sir/Madam

I am emailing you to open up a case about my 2007 Skoda Octavia vRS TDI. The registration is *******, with the original registration being *******.

I have been having starting issues with my vehicle over the last few months and with lots of money spent on new parts including battery, glow plugs, injectors, tandem pump and various diagnostics ( resulting in a cost of just over £1,000 ) which never solved my issue.

It has eventually been unveiled that at some point my original injectors ( the injectors that have been changed by the VOSA recall ) were in fact never fitted correctly. It is unclear whether this is due to the injectors not being tightened/seated correctly or even if the PD bolts ( one time use ) were changed on this recall.

Due to the above issue, four holes have been bored in my cylinder head from the loose injectors and now oil and fuel have been mixing together. Due to the injectors being loose this has also caused them to score causing metal shards to contaminate within my fuel system.

My Skoda dealer have said I need a new cylinder head, new injectors plus seals, new fuel filter, new in-tank lift fuel pump as well as a cleanse of the fuel system resulting in a cost of £4,500.

I am in the Army and rely heavily upon my car as well as it being my pride and joy. I feel that due to this issue being caused by the injector recall and the amount of stress, inconvenience and financial worry this has placed upon myself I am curious as to whether you would be able to, at the very least contribute to this daunting cost which would be massively appreciated.

Warmest regards,

Mr ****

[Sarge]

Looks a good letter. Hopefully it'll be well received and you'll get a satisfactory follow up from Skoda UK.

[silver1011]

Reads good to me.

 

I have used their online comments form and got a call from them the very next day...

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us/contact-us

 

I would also add which dealer carried out the injector recall and when it was done.

 

Has the car got a full main dealer service history, this can also add weight although they will ask you this anyway when evaluating the goodwill gesture.

 

Another bonus is if you can show brand loyalty, previous Skoda ownership etc.

 

Good luck!

[BlueVRSTom]

Reads good to me.

I have used their online comments form and got a call from them the very next day...

http://www.skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us/contact-us

I would also add which dealer carried out the injector recall and when it was done.

Has the car got a full main dealer service history, this can also add weight although they will ask you this anyway when evaluating the goodwill gesture.

Another bonus is if you can show brand loyalty, previous Skoda ownership etc.

Good luck!

My main reason for not wanting to speak with Skoda UK to begin with are because of your questions above.

I don't know who carried out the recall or when it was done, I was told that the previous owner had it done but that's all I know.

Also, I have only ever used VAG specialists or a trusted Indy or carried out service work myself so again no brownie points there.

Finally with me only being 21 my previous car history is limited. Rover 25 for my first car, then a Mk4 Golf and now the vRS so I'm not expecting the world from them.

But as previously said, it's worth a try.

[silver1011]

The service history and loyalty helps, that's all.

 

Do not lose sight of the fact that a Skoda main dealer has incorrectly fitted injectors to your car which has resulted in significant damage.

 

As long as no one else has touched the injectors since then I struggle to see how they can dispute it. They will of course insist that you take the car into one of their dealers to be examined, at your cost of course. This is then reimbursed if Skoda admit fault.

 

There should be a sticker in the boot next to the spare wheel with the recall number on there and the dealer's name and the date.

 

This is from my old vRS...

 

Campaign number 23J7...

 

[BlueVRSTom]

My only problem is I had the injectors replaced about a month due to this cold start problem which of course made no difference as the damage was already done so I don't have the original injectors that Skoda would have fitted on recall.

I'll have a look at that sticker when I get the car back as its in the dealers as we speak.

The dealers are currently fixing the car ( should be done by mid next week ) are Skoda UK likely to contribute even after the car is fixed/the bill is paid or does this go against me?

I really don't want them to get away with this especially as I can now see they are to blame :(

[xman]

WHOA!!! SLOW DOWN AND STOP!

 

By proceding with a VERY expensive repair, you are considerably weaking your case here. Send your email/letter asap and take a copy to the dealer and ask them to stop until you hear back from SKODA UK! It is very likely that Skoda UK will want one of the HQ techs to visit and inspect the engine before making a decision.

 

Dont worry about the recall documentation as Skoda should have that logged on their system.

 

Your youth is showing, slow down. With warranty and insurance issues, proceed slowly, carefully and deliberately. Negotiation will be necessary. Do not give any impression that you are easily fobbed off or willing to pay for their mistakes.

 

Do NOT pay anything until you have agreed with SKODA UK (NOT the dealer). Once payment changes hands you'll require legal action to get anything.

Edited 12 March, 2015 by xman