Long-Interval Service Items - "Sprich zu mir"

[Clunkclick]

My 12 year old Mk 1 Fab saloon (DOHC BBZ engine) is due a service shortly.

 

Its just shy of 60.000 miles.

 

I note from the service invoices, that whilst things like the oil, oil filter have been changed by the main dealer regularly every  years,  hydraulic fluid every 2 years, pollen filters every 2 years and air filters every 4 years, things like the Spark Plugs, fuel filter, gearbox oil, power steering oil and engine coolant don't appear to have been changed from new.

 

My feeling is that these outstanding  things should be done at this point.

 

I'm doing about 2,000 miles a year now and hope to keep the motor on the road for at least another 5 years.

 

Anybody know the official skoda advice is on any of these issues ?

 

Cheers

 

Nick

Edited 17 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[vzo25]

Hi

Most important service at 60k is timing belt renewal

Every 2 years brake fluid change.renew coolant but if if the g12 longlife coolant has been used that duration can be longer

Every40k or 4 years air filter. Sparkplugs.

Check aux drive belt

Check powersteering fluidlevel

check automatic trans fluid level

Main dealer covers this every 2nd inspect interval.

Hope this helps.btw all info is from my haynes manual

[sepulchrave]

Spark Plugs, fuel filter, gearbox oil, power steering oil and engine coolant don't appear to have been changed from new.

 

Change the spark plugs for NGK Iridium and you can forget ever doing them again, leave the gearbox and power steering alone, if the levels are good then they don't need changing since they are sealed and filled for life. Definitely change the coolant and flush it through thoroughly.

[Breezy_Pete]

Sprich zu mir?

 

It's been a loooong time since I studied German at school, but that sounds remarkably un-German!  I may be wrong.

 

I'd at least examine spark plugs a lot more often than every 4 years and for the price of them, probably replace every couple of years unless they look immaculate and the gaps aren't gaping.

The gaps inevitably increase over time as material migrates, and the multi-electrode ones aren't easily adjustable. You also get a free diagnostic of how the combustion process has been going (very) recently each time you look at the plugs.

 

Is the 2000 miles a year done in lots of very short journeys? If it were, there might be implications for checking/cleaning the breather system(s) of the engine, to try to minimise accumulation of moisture associated with cold running.

[sepulchrave]

the multi-electrode ones aren't adjustable at all.

 

FYP.

[rum4mo]

I stopped replacing spark plugs every two years about 25 years ago really due to plugs being made to last longer "nowadays" - since then I have replaced them every 4 years or 36000 miles on all my cars. Dealer servicing used to remove/examine plugs every two years, but due to the cost of new plugs and as plugs are now "better" it makes more sense, for dealer servicing just to replace them at 4 years or 40000 miles, I think that my 2011 S4 service book indicates that is what happens. I do examine the old plugs to make sure that nothing nasty is happening - though I'm not sure if I would open the engine up if the plugs looked nasty - I'd expect that I had worked that out before replacing the plugs.

 

There used to be many nasty things that would/could happened to plugs when you look back 30 years, "leading up" being a bit too popular!

 

Wife's Polo with BBY engine is at 12+years and 103000, it has had its cambelts (and pump and coolant) replaced at 5 and 9 years but I've yet to replace the petrol filter - have it ready though!

Edited 17 January, 2015 by rum4mo

[Clunkclick]

Cheers for the comments.

 

My mistake !

 

On looking at the paperwork again it shows that the plugs were replaced at year 4 (30,000 miles) and year 6 (40,000). From recollection that's the point at which I was getting EGR valve problems, with some significant backfires, so may be a set got trashed by that.

 

Web sources say that iridium plugs can last 60,000 miles, but I suppose that's only possible if they don"t get excessively fouled or eroded by a misbehaving engine.

 

I recall using palladium/platinum plugs on motorcycle engines in the 70's and whilst they were in good condition they used to produce much better engine oerformance particularly at low revolutions round time. However, they didn't last too long in good condition because the points based ignition system didn't produce as consistent a discharge as electronic ignition and would erode them far quicker than copper plugs.

 

At the moment, using the car once a week for a 30 mile round trip, I am having to top-up with a litre of engine oil at least once between services i.e. Every 1000 miles. When I was using the car every weekday, I was having to top-up a litre every 600 miles. There is a visible crankshaft oil seal leak, but I also suspect that there's also a valve stem leak. So, I surprised that I've got away so few plug changes.

 

Would I be right in thinking that the garages are not too keen to remove plugs nowadays, especially on older cars, for fear of breaking the ignition coils ?

 

It appears from the tick-box maintenance schedule that the gearbox is only checked for external leaks, not for level. When they say "Sealed-for-life", what's life.Some of these VW engines can easily do 120,000, without too many problems. I wouldn't like to do 120 k on the original oil.

 

I'm surprised about the power steering fluid. I thought that would be similar to brake fluid i.e. Hydroscopic, and therefore require changing at frequent intervals.

 

And similarly, I'm surprised that the petrol filter hasn't been replaced at all, given that its an injection engine. The petrol filter used on the fab is a lot more complicated and exoensive (£15 -£25) than the simple £4 job I used to replace on my previous carburetted VW Golf. I note that its no longer located in the engine compartment but is next to the fuel tank. You'd have thought that that alone would have warranted frequent replacement.

 

The cooling system, to my knowledge hasn't boiled or done anything naughty, gasket wise,, so as long as ethylene glycol doesn't lose its properties over time, and the fluid is debris free, then I presume the the ratio to water will remain roughly the same. I notice that on servicing, the garage are now making an entry into the service report certifying the lowest air temperature  that the coolant is good for I take it that they test it each time . . . .?

 

N.

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[sepulchrave]

My mistake !

 

On looking at the paperwork again it shows that the plugs were replaced at year 4 (30,000 miles) and year 6 (40,000). From recollection that's the point at which I was getting EGR valve problems, with some significant backfires, so may be a set got trashed by that.

 

Web sources say that iridium plugs can last 60,000 miles, but I suppose that's only possible if they don"t get excessively fouled or eroded by a misbehaving engine.

 

I recall using palladium/platinum plugs on motorcycle engines in the 70's and whilst they were in good condition they used to produce much better engine oerformance particularly at low revolutions round time. However, they didn't last too long in good condition because the points based ignition system didn't produce as consistent a discharge as electronic ignition and would erode them far quicker than copper plugs.

 

At the moment, using the car once a week for a 30 mile round trip, I am having to top-up with a litre of engine oil at least once between services i.e. Every 1000 miles. When I was using the car every weekday, I was having to top-up a litre every 600 miles. There is a visible crankshaft oil seal leak, but I also suspect that there's also a valve stem leak. So, I surprised that I've got away so few plug changes.

 

Would I be right in thinking that the garages are not too keen to remove plugs nowadays, especially on older cars, for fear of breaking the ignition coils ?

 

It appears from the tick-box maintenance schedule that the gearbox is only checked for external leaks, not for level. When they say "Sealed-for-life", what's life.Some of these VW engines can easily do 120,000, without too many problems. I wouldn't like to do 120 k on the original oil.

 

I'm surprised about the power steering fluid. I thought that would be similar to brake fluid i.e. Hydroscopic, and therefore require changing at frequent intervals.

 

The cooling system, to my knowledge hasn't boiled or done anything naughty, gasket wise,, so as long as ethylene glycol doesn't lose its properties over time, and the fluid is debris free, then I presume the the ratio to water will remain roughly the same. I notice that on servicing, the garage are now making an entry into the service report certifying the lowest air temperature  that the coolant is good for I take it that they test it each time . . . .?

 

N.

 

Iridium plugs are excellent for this engine, as you say it eats plugs due to running so lean and pinking a lot.

 

VW gearbox oil is a very expensive fully synthetic gear oil which lasts almost indefinitely because there is no contamination from combustion products or fuel and it isn't pumped, it just splashes around which is why the level is important.

 

The power steering fluid is also a fully synthetic oil, not hygroscopic and again not exposed to any contaminants so also lasts indefinitely.

 

The garage is obviously testing the mixture concentration as you say, however coolant does oxidise with age and becomes contaminated with aluminium oxide from the engine internals and I would change it at 60k because it's very cheap to do so.

[Clunkclick]

In the 1980s, I used to replace the simple  fuel filter on my Golf once a year and in tbose  it usually needed it after doing about 6,000 miles in a year. When you removed it at service time you could see contamination that the filter had prevented travelling further up the system to the  carburettor - the majority if it would be light brown gunk from water contamination, suggesting rusting/oxidation of something along tbe line. I presume the majority of this came from water pollution of fuel at filling stations. Also, there used to be small flakes of rust in this gunk, again, same source + oxidation in my Golf's fuel tank.

 

I find it difficult to believe that during the last 30 years petrol stations have managed to totally eliminate water contamination from fuel sold, or that its ceased to cause rust in the steel tank on your car. So, I am still puzzled why the fuel filter doesn't appear to have been changed on my wagon.

 

N

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Apparently, water contimination of fuel is still with us:-

 

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Morrisons-petrol-station-closes-pumps-water/story-24739083-detail/story.html

 

On this occasion, it originated at the refinery !

 

N

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Breezy_Pete]

Was your Golf a Mk1? (Must've been, I think, Mk2s have plastic tanks)

 

Plastic tanks have been pretty universal for a long time now.

[Clunkclick]

Iridium plugs are excellent for this engine, as you say it eats plugs due to running so lean and pinking a lot.

 

VW gearbox oil is a very expensive fully synthetic gear oil which lasts almost indefinitely because there is no contamination from combustion products or fuel and it isn't pumped, it just splashes around which is why the level is important.

 

The power steering fluid is also a fully synthetic oil, not hygroscopic and again not exposed to any contaminants so also lasts indefinitely.

 

The garage is obviously testing the mixture concentration as you say, however coolant does oxidise with age and becomes contaminated with aluminium oxide from the engine internals and I would change it at 60k because it's very cheap to do so.

So, iridium plugs might be better for short journeys round town when the engine never gets completely warmed-up and therefore runs with a slightly rich mixture, whereas long, high speed runs, when the fuel mixture errs on the lean side will probably erode iridium plugs quicker than copper ones ?

 

N

[Clunkclick]

Was your Golf a Mk1? (Must've been, I think, Mk2s have plastic tanks)

 

Plastic tanks have been pretty universal for a long time now.

Yeah, it was a MK 1. You can tell that I haven't got underneath the Skoda yet !

 

N

[sepulchrave]

So, iridium plugs might be better for short journeys round town when the engine never gets completely warmed-up and therefore runs with a slightly rich mixture, whereas long, high speed runs, when the fuel mixture errs on the lean side will probably erode iridium plugs quicker than copper ones ?

 

N

 

No, Iridium is used precisely because it is so hard and resists erosion extremely well, they don't really wear at all, I used NGK's in mine and they still look like new, beware though, you can't clean or gap them, just fit and forget.

[Clunkclick]

Thanks for the plugs info.

 

If this fuel filter installation is anything like the Fab (The part looks the same as I've seen on suppliers sites, so I presume it is), then no wonder its doesn't get replaced too often:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zphJijkiIw

 

Note that this crowd don't think that VW's advice that the FF should be a "Lifetime fit" is correct - any wonder when you look at the cut-open section or the fuel that they removed from the filter on the Audi in this vid (Last minute of vid).

 

Disgrace to call yourself a motor technician and to allow that to go on. You wouldn't leave a garage floor in that condition !

 

 

But what a palava ! .

 

It takes 5 minutes -  against 1 minute to replace the engine compartment FF in the MK 1 Golf. Progress ?

 

Another triumph for car designers.

 

Makes you realise what a hollow claim "Vorsprung durch technique" is.

 

Perhaps some revised advice due from Milton Keynes - a bit like the cam belts.

 

 

 

Postscript

 

 

I've just looked at a video for FF replacement in the Touraeg. Even worse ! The FF is integral in the tank and accessed by removing the back seat !

 

That's the business to get in, servicing of high priced cars £600 just to take a look.

 

N

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Sprich zu mir?

 

It's been a loooong time since I studied German at school, but that sounds remarkably un-German!  I may be wrong.

 

I'd at least examine spark plugs a lot more often than every 4 years and for the price of them, probably replace every couple of years unless they look immaculate and the gaps aren't gaping.

The gaps inevitably increase over time as material migrates, and the multi-electrode ones aren't easily adjustable. You also get a free diagnostic of how the combustion process has been going (very) recently each time you look at the plugs.

 

Is the 2000 miles a year done in lots of very short journeys? If it were, there might be implications for checking/cleaning the breather system(s) of the engine, to try to minimise accumulation of moisture associated with cold running.

That's Google translate for "Speak to me"

 

N

[@Lee]

That's Google translate for "Speak to me"

 

N

 

Before Google translate there was German (Deutsch)

[Clunkclick]

Before Google translate there was German (Deutsch)

Was that rubbish too ?

 

N

[Phil-E]

As you're addressing more than one person it would be "Sprechen". You also wouldn't use "to me - zu mir" you would say "with me - mit mir".

 

So "Sprechen sie mit mir"

 

That's your German lesson over

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Phil-E

[Clunkclick]

Looks like with modern VAG engines that everything (EGR, Fuel filter servicing interval) conspires to put as much dirty crap through the injectors and the engines as possible. No wonder they have so many problems !

 

So as Germany's  home energy policy goes green, they are doing their little bit to ensure that the rest of us don't.

 

N

[sepulchrave]

Thanks for the plugs info.

 

If this fuel filter installation is anything like the Fab (The part looks the same as I've seen on suppliers sites, so I presume it is), then no wonder its doesn't get replaced too often:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zphJijkiIw

 

Note that this crowd don't think that VW's advice that the FF should be a "Lifetime fit" is correct - any wonder when you look at the cut-open section or the fuel that they removed from the filter on the Audi in this vid (Last minute of vid).

 

Disgrace to call yourself a motor technician and to allow that to go on. You wouldn't leave a garage floor in that condition !

 

 

But what a palava ! .

 

It takes 5 minutes -  against 1 minute to replace the engine compartment FF in the MK 1 Golf. Progress ?

 

Another triumph for car designers.

 

Makes you realise what a hollow claim "Vorsprung durch technique" is.

 

Perhaps some revised advice due from Milton Keynes - a bit like the cam belts.

 

 

 

Postscript

 

 

I've just looked at a video for FF replacement in the Touraeg. Even worse ! The FF is integral in the tank and accessed by removing the back seat !

 

That's the business to get in, servicing of high priced cars £600 just to take a look.

 

N

 

Whoa there, easy tiger.

 

There is a reason why car manufacturers are run by ENGINEERS and garages are run by MECHANICS.

 

First things first, a fuel filter is designed to one job only and that job is to trap contaminants present in the fuel supply, therefore a dirty filter is a GOOD thing because it means it's doing its job properly.

 

Secondly a filter gets MORE efficient as it gets dirtier, the limiting factor on replacement is pressure drop, once the filter gets too clogged it can no longer pass the fluid at the required pressure, the only way to determine if a filter is too clogged is to measure fuel delivery pressure, if that pressure is within spec. then the filter is fine, if it's too low then the filter needs replacing.

 

Bear in mind that most petrol fuel filters contain the pressure regulator as well which bypasses the filter and returns excess fuel to the tank, so the idea that the pump can burn out is simply nonsense.

 

THe ONLY harm a clogged fuel filter can do is to reduce the pressure of the fuel supply below specified delivery pressure, this can result in mixture leaning at peak loads which can reduce power output, however the ECU will detect this and throw a fault code and the CEL as a result.

 

Now re-evaluate what that idiot video was saying in light of what I've just told you.

[Clunkclick]

Sorry, I'd take the word of a good independent over a mass manufacturer every time.

 

Wonder what standard UK Police apply to somre of their German origin motorway race cars (Sorry, patrol cars). What's the betting they replace FFs at least as frequently as AFs

 

"Filters get more efficuent as they get dirtier" - that's the text book speaking. Not practical necessity.

 

Point is as soons as dirt lodges in a filter, the quicker more dirt will accummulate. I'd say exponentially. So, a dirty filter will quickly will go from slightly soiled to near blocked. This is universal and aupplies whether its fish pond filtration or atheroscelerotic blood vessels.

 

And your saying that the increased resistance to a small electruc pump caused by a filter which is getting progressively dirtier Isn't going to cause the pump to draw more power to pump the same volume of fluid at the same rate and wearing it out prematurely through heat stress. And are you also saying that a dirty filter will not be allowing an increased number iof dirt particles to get passed the filter when the input pressure is increased due to the pump struggling with a dirty filter ? Don't believe it.

 

 

N

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Your reasoning comes from the same school of "Value Analysis" that led VAG to under-design the capcity of engine waterways on the MK1 Golf leading to chronic overheating and led to that ridiculous clutch cable design on the base model MK 1 Golf.

False economy, which benefits only manufacturers and repairers.

N

[Clunkclick]

These are only paper/fabric filters. Doesn't take much increased pressure to push dirt through and onwards o the injectors.

 

Would I rely on inferential data on delivered fuel pressure produced by sensors in the EM system when dirt in the fuel, escaping the filter, may be compromising those sensors ?

 

 

And would I rely on a main dealer chasing-up that error code, assuming it was displayed  ? In my experience, No.

 

 

N

[Breezy_Pete]

In my experience of this forum, Sepulchrave is far more often right than wrong.

For someone who doesn't even know what his fuel tank is made of to claim superior understanding of his car's function seems to me strange.