Suspension overhaul

[LJH888]

Hi everyone, I've seen several people on the forum using a combination of Bilstein shocks and H&R springs on their Superb Mk1, is this because Bilstein kits come with H&R springs or is there another reason this is a better combination than the springs that come with the kit ?

Has anyone here purchased one of the Meyle HD suspension arm kits by any chance ? Are they the best quality option ?

Thanks for reading...

[dieselV6]

I think Bilsteins sets come with Eibach springs. However, in my opinion the best setup for the Mk1 Superb is using stock springs and Bilstein B6 monotube shock absorbers. This keeps comfort pretty much unchanged but transforms handling in corners and at speed.

[LJH888]

Thanks for the advice, I didn't realise that keeping the stock springs was an option, I've always thought that the B6 shocks had to have a shorter spring and you had to have the B4 shocks if you were keeping the same ride height.

[dieselV6]

No, B6s work well with stock springs and specifically for the Superb they are excellent upgrade, it is B8s that are shortened. B6s are also quite durable, 115k+ miles on my car and still handle as when they were new.

 

I had Eibachs on the Octy, and while handling was good, comfort as well as tolerance to road obstacles both suffered.

[oh_superb]

Ditto, B6 on my car too, now better than when they were new, nicely bedded in, comfy and handle well.

B6 also supports shorter springs, should you want to drop it down in the future.

[MilanM]

I dont understand, is it safe to use old springs?! What do I get if I change just absorbers if stocks are good?

[oh_superb]

Milan, you mean change to B6 shocks? Yes safe to use standard springs. Handles better.

[LJH888]

Thanks for the advice guys, think this is what I'll be going for...

[dieselV6]

I dont understand, is it safe to use old springs?! What do I get if I change just absorbers if stocks are good?

 

Old springs are good as new, so long as they have not sagged too much/cracked/corroded. Or you can buy new springs, the important bit here was that stock height springs handle very well with B6s on the Superb. Also, B6 shocks, being gas monotubes, have about 25kg of static tension each, which lifts the car somewhat, removing at least partly the effect of sagged springs. 

 

B6 monotube shock absorbers react much faster and have better damping curve than conventional twin tube shock absorbers (e.g. stock or Bilstein B4). For me, on a particular hilly/twisty road (A507 near Buntingford, Herts), B6s allow driving that road at least 10mph faster in turns than on factory shocks, and that is with same suspension height and pretty much same comfort. I would not go back to stock shocks, or even B4s for that matter, B6s are worth every penny IMHO.

 

When replacing the shocks, it's worth inspecting other components around them for wear, and renew them if needed. Saves another shock job in future.

[MilanM]

So are you saying me that if I buy B6s I will notice difrence?

Also, could you tell me price?

In my country road quality are realy bad, and sometimes when I turn in corner(faster than I should) its like Im driving bus...I know tough that Superb isnt sport car, but..

[dieselV6]

There is a definite difference, even compared to relatively new factory shocks, I replaced mine at 15k miles from new, back in 2007.  Certainly for 2.5TDI the B6s are a very welcome upgrade, as the V6 diesel engine is quite heavy. Price wise, last time they were discussed about 6 months to a year ago, you could get a whole set for under £500 delivered in the UK, though I am pretty sure you might get them cheaper in Eurozone as the sets come from ebay retailers in Germany and since then Euro tanked 20%. If you want to get them, beware of vendors who peddle B4s as "Bilstein sport shocks", best to get part numbers from katalog.bilstein.de and buy B6s by part number.

 

I have driven on all sorts of roads incl A and B roads in Eastern Europe as well as motorways/autobahn, and yes the B6s do help in all settings, the barge-on-wheels handling is all but gone.

Edited 26 January, 2015 by dieselV6

[CRC]

I've no doubt that B6 shocks are the better option, but if cost is an issue, I replaced all my shocks with B4s about 18 months ago and the cost was less than £160 delivered in the UK.

 

They are described as a "slightly firmer than standard" option, but of course they will feel a lot different because they are replacing shocks that are well worn.

 

Have been very pleased with them ( especially since they have bedded in) and the car is far happier on fast bends than it used to be ..... it feels very composed and planted.

[MilanM]

What do you think how much more money do I need if I want to lower my car (like 30 mm-not to much) and put B6?

Is it good investion? What springs do you recomend me?

Will I lost comfort or not? I would like to see her lower not buy much but I think it would look great. Currently I have 17'' rims. I dont want to go to bigger rims it look like  she is just perfect with 17"

Oh yes and can you recomed good tires? I can small big investion in future

Edited 27 January, 2015 by MilanM

[dieselV6]

If you really want to lower your car, by all means do use the Bilstein B12 kit (B6s+Eibachs). As I have said earlier, Eibachs are not bad, your handling will be better than with stock springs and B6s, but you do lose comfort somewhat, and certainly you do lose ground clearance. B6s are good for up to 30mm-40mm drop, any more and you need shorter B8s.

 

It's up to you to decide if it's worth the investment, as you are putting new performance suspension set into at least 6 years old car. For me, because of mileage and specific requirements, it made sense to change shocks and front springs on a nearly new car (I have front "sport" springs from 2.5TDI Auto and rear Rough Road package springs that came with the car, this makes for level car when fully loaded and with towbar box, the car holds the road better at autobahn speeds). Net heights on my car (with B6s) were 0mm (stock) at front and +20mm at rear when unloaded. After 8 years, I'm pretty sure the rear is now around stock level, front did not change much as I have had the "auto springs for only 4 years now, previously I had the 2.5V6 manual box "sport" springs which sagged 5mm-10mm over 4 years.

 

Around where I live, the local roads got noticeably worse over the past few years, so much that in fact my upgrades go in opposite direction, i.e. increasing ground clearance as well as comfort.

For example, I have just upgraded Roomster to 195/60/R15 Vredestain Quatrac Lite all weather tyres from 195/55/R15 stock summer ones, which gives extra 10mm clearance (as well as removes the need to stock separate winter rims, even for winter trips abroad). Handling did not suffer to any noticeable degree, but the increase in comfort from 55 profile to 60 profile tyres makes me now seriously consider going to 205/60/R16 tyres for the Superb. Though I have not checked yet if a slightly larger spare would fit in the spare wheel well. Roomster takes anything up to 205/55/R16 in the well as it is Golf floor plan so it was not a problem to fit 195/60/R15, but on the Superb from measurements it seems the 205/60/R16 spare fit will be tight.

 

Tyre wise, it depends if you want summer/winter sets or all weather ones. For summer, Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance are excellent, quiet and grippy and value for money. Dunlop Sport BluResponse is another one (Dunlop is a Goodyear brand, as are Fulda, Sava and Debica). 

 

Personally, I prefer all weather tyres now as my winter mileage does not justify a separate winter set (8-10 years of use per set is a bit much). Vredestein has just issued excellent Quatrac 5 in V speed rating (and reinforced too), and these would be my choice, Quatrac Lites are just as good but older design. Pirelli also upped their all weather game recently with Cinturato All Season tyres but these may not be available in 17" size yet. HTH

[MilanM]

Tnx for all this write up! Once again this forum demostrate quality of members and i like Briskoda!

Actually my car is 2003. But, you know what, it is in excelent condition(tnx God) and I like it very much.

It is my very first car, and I love her <3

I dont want to change it, because  it realy has everything I need. Also, I have tested few other new cars(like Mazda 6), and they just isnt good enough to replace my Sup.

So all in all, now I realy must take care about money, and expensis, because it is realy hard times and she is old lady now.

So I plan to just buy B6 and use old springs, because as you said, I dont wont to loose clearence, because every now and then I drove slighy off road, like on gravel atc(also I want to apologize about my bad english Im learning slow )

You actually give me a good idea, because I need new summer tyres, this old tyres will last about six, seven months.

I will look at these all weather tyres, because winters are not like they were. So, you think they are just as good as summer tires and how are they on rain?

Tnx once again, it surely mean lot for me.

[dieselV6]

Premium all weathers are about just as good performance wise as mid market premium brand tyres, e.g. the Quatrac Lites are about as grippy in the dry and wet as Goodyear Efficient Grip (non-Performance), or as Conti EcoContact they had replaced.

 

All all-weather tyres I mentioned are very good in the rain, if in doubt always refer to EU Label on wet braking. Yes, you can still get better braking with summer tyres, but it is not a world of difference, the difference is about 10% to best summer tyres ('A' rated for wet grip) . I use Goodyear EG (not EGP) summer tyres on Superb at present, which are 'C' rated for wet grip, and they are fine even for spirited driving. Most Chinese ditchfinders have 'E' wet grip rating or worse.

 

One important thing is to check EU label before you order, as wet braking properties depend on tyre size and profile (contact patch size affects it) as well as rubber compound (batches of tyres for a specific manufacturer may be better/worse in the wet, or e.g have lower noise).

[MilanM]

Tnx for advice....also what do you think about size?

225x45x17(curently) or 225x50x17

[dieselV6]

With tyres in 225 size, they may be too wide to oversize them. Going to 205/60/16 is OK on the wheels because 205/55/r16 allow chains which are assumed to be 12mm link size. Basically, 225/50/17 may rub wheelarches.

[MilanM]

I touht so

[dieselV6]

Forgot to mention, if you want more comfortable tyre profile, you could try 205/50/R17 tyre size, it will most definitly fit and improve comfort. 205mm is wide enough, and Superb uses 7" wide rims so 205mm wide tyres will fit just fine, in fact the 225mm tyres are a bit wide for these rims. Diameter will be the same as your current tyres so will definitely fit everywhere incl spare. Load index of at least 91 (e.g. Vredesteins QL can be had with 89 and 94 LI in this size)

Edited 28 January, 2015 by dieselV6

[MilanM]

I know but maybe it will look ugly on car?! Because, they will rise her like camel.

Also, I called few people for tyres.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 225x45x17--800 euros in my country, while same tyres just 225x50x17-850 euros.

Its not cheap, but hey I will not buy winter tyres

[LJH888]

So how do you evaluate the condition of the springs you have installed to see if just adding the B6 shocks is an option ?

I suspect mine are ok, I had a full set from a forum member and they have many less miles on them than my car, they've had plenty of use since I've had them installed though.

I feel that my car rolls around way to much in corners and over speed bumps but I still hear an awful bang bang going over small bumps like expansion joints in carriageways and pitted Tarmac makes the whole thing rattle like crazy.

Having watched a few before and after videos of a big heavy BMW having some Bilsteins fitted I was kind of thinking the firmer shorter springs would solve the rolling about and the better quality damping would solve the rattling effect from the smaller bumps. It seems like I might have a fundamental misunderstanding of which bits do what though.

Thanks again though guys for any advice, it is very much appreciated.

[dieselV6]

I know but maybe it will look ugly on car?! Because, they will rise her like camel.

Also, I called few people for tyres.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 225x45x17--800 euros in my country, while same tyres just 225x50x17-850 euros.

Its not cheap, but hey I will not buy winter tyres

 

They won't rise anything, 205/50 has same sidewall as 225/45 (about 101mm high). 225/50 are 12mm taller. There is one more option that is taller and will fit, and that is 205/55/R17. These will lift the car 12mm and immensely improve comfort, but yes they will look different and may not fit in the spare wheel well. Also, few or no all season tyres in 205/55/R17 size.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for me skinny tyres always looked downright ugly, never could understand the fascination with the low profile looks. OK 65 and 70 profile tyres were a bit wiggly in turns and hard braking, but anything below 60 profile handles OK with comfort going down fast, the lower the profile.

 

 

So how do you evaluate the condition of the springs you have installed to see if just adding the B6 shocks is an option ?

I suspect mine are ok, I had a full set from a forum member and they have many less miles on them than my car, they've had plenty of use since I've had them installed though.

I feel that my car rolls around way to much in corners and over speed bumps but I still hear an awful bang bang going over small bumps like expansion joints in carriageways and pitted Tarmac makes the whole thing rattle like crazy.

Having watched a few before and after videos of a big heavy BMW having some Bilsteins fitted I was kind of thinking the firmer shorter springs would solve the rolling about and the better quality damping would solve the rattling effect from the smaller bumps. It seems like I might have a fundamental misunderstanding of which bits do what though.

Thanks again though guys for any advice, it is very much appreciated.

 

If the car sits level, rear is not too close to the ground and there is no rust on the springs, the springs are good.

I went through car lowering phase with my Mk1 Octy, and very quickly noticed that springs or ride height mattered a lot less than the shock absorbers.

Rolling in turns depends on how weight transfers front-rear and side-side, that again depends on shock absorbers, how much they damp and how accurately. Shorter springs limit the body roll, but you pay for it in comfort as same disturbance has to be absorbed over shorter distance. My preference (and long standing Skoda preference, since Mk1 per-FL Octy days) was for stiffer and more precise shock absorbers. With B6s on my Superb, there is very little body roll, to be honest I forgot what body roll meant until my Roomster's shocks loosened up (it'll likely get B6s this spring/summer).

Edited 28 January, 2015 by dieselV6

[LJH888]

Ok, I think I'm convinced, thank you. I'm going to go for some B6's and one of those Meyle HD control arm kits.

Have you got any advice about what other suspension bits I might replace at the same time seeing as I'll be saving a few quid on springs ?

So far I've done top mounts, rear axle bushes and ARB bushes. Thanks again....

[dieselV6]

To be honest, it's hard to recommend replacements as there are so many movable components/balljoints in Mk1 Superb's suspension.

Just check for what's wobbly / damaged / cracked rubber and so on, and make sure you do full geometry check including "raised toe" adjustment after the whole job is done, otherwise you may find the car starts eating tyres or handles strangely. No need to do alignment for just the shock replacement, it's the control arms that may be of slightly different length. HTH