Idle Pulsing

[planehazza]

Hey all,

 

I'm googling what "Lumpy Idle" means and I don't think mine is doing that as the needle sits still at the idle RPM of 800 (or whatever it is).  What I do feel though, is a sort of twitching/pulsing in the seat (nope not that kind ). Hard to describe, but it's like for a split second there is a change in torque or something, but as said, the needle doesn't seem to move when it happens.  

 

Any thoughts for what I could look at?

[chr1staylor]

Sounds exactly like the typical lumpy idle really, rev counter doesn't tend to twitch.

First stop would be to check and replace the pcv valve. Plenty of threads on that here if you just search for pcv.

[sessions]

i have the same issue

[Guest]

+1

BKC engine.

Most noticeable after it has been run, stopped and sat for a few minutes.

It disappears after it's been run for a while again.

I was to check the engine mounts as the engine does seem easily rocked by hand but you'd think the shimmy you described would happen all the time if it were worn mounts.

Plenty of posts on the matter but no reported fixes.

[planehazza]

+1

BKC engine.

Most noticeable after it has been run, stopped and sat for a few minutes.

It disappears after it's been run for a while again.

I was to check the engine mounts as the engine does seem easily rocked by hand but you'd think the shimmy you described would happen all the time if it were worn mounts.

Plenty of posts on the matter but no reported fixes.

 

The sensation is more like the seat is on a spring and it slips a tiny amount. It's like a very small sudden jerk you can feel in your back.

 

I did a search before I started this thread, and I found a few results mentioning the PCV valve but my idle is solid at a constant 800rpm and I hear no loud whine/squeak...

 

I'm going to take the plugs out and see if there's any water/oil on them, and maybe blast the throttle body with some carb cleaner.  I'll check my documents to see when the plugs were last changed...

Edited 1 February, 2015 by planehazza

[planehazza]

Hi all,

 

Never got round to checking PCV valve but it's apparent that this 'pulsing' is getting worse.  It's almost like a vibration now, but the rev counter still sits happily at 800 RPM (after it's dropped from 1200 on a cold start).  Is PCV still the most likely cause?

 

Reading around (here, and in this link: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51828&page=2 ) I'm looking at a few things:

 

1) PCV Valve

2) Plugs

3) CoilPack

4) Carbon build up on intake valves

5) Coolant temp sensor.

 

1, 2,3, and 5 are easy for me to check, but what if I find it's a carbon build up on the intake valves? Would I need a specialist to disassemble and clean them?

Edited 7 September, 2015 by planehazza

[planehazza]

Discovered/noticed today that the problem is not there (or less noticeable) when the engine is started from cold.  When I get up to operating temp, and pull up to lights etc, I can feel the car throbbing.  I got my rose right up to the needles and I cannot see that needle move at all...

[patrolman]

sound like the DMF to me, mine did the same.

[planehazza]

sound like the DMF to me, mine did the same.

 

Few others have suggested that too.  They costly to replace? I'm guessing it's a lot of labour...

 

EDIT. I'll check to see if the throbbing is still there with the clutch down in neutral.  If there's no change would that eliminate the DMF as the culprit?

Edited 8 September, 2015 by planehazza

[Jevpls]

Few others have suggested that too.  They costly to replace? I'm guessing it's a lot of labour...

 

Too sad but they cost a lot. And there is no other solution... in case of EGR or DPF  failure you can simply remove them for reasonable price but you can't  live without a flywheel. Older 1,9 TDI engines allowed the single mass flywheel to be used instead of DMF but you got vRS and I doubt that there is a substitute solution for cheaper price.

I paid ~750 EUR at the dealers garage for DMF replacement. Dealer offered me to replace EGR valve for 2.0 TDI (CR) engine for ~615 EUR (didn't do that ). That's for you to be able to compare price for such work.

Edited 8 September, 2015 by Jevpls

[planehazza]

Too sad but they cost a lot. And there is no other solution... in case of EGR or DPF  failure you can simply remove them for reasonable price but you can't  live without a flywheel. Older 1,9 TDI engines allowed the single mass flywheel to be used instead of DMF but you got vRS and I doubt that there is a substitute solution for cheaper price.

I paid ~750 EUR at the dealers garage for DMF replacement. Dealer offered me to replace EGR valve for 2.0 TDI (CR) engine for ~615 EUR (didn't do that ). That's for you to be able to compare price for such work.

 

Cool. Well I won't rush into anything like that, whereas plugs I can change quickly and cheaply.

 

Update: Just been out and let the car warm up on idle for 10 mins.  Sat in the car, almost no noticeable throbbing while cold.  As the engine started to warm up they got more and more pronounced.  Once the needle was at operating temp the twitches were really noticable in my lower back.  With the car still in neutral, pressing the clutch down made no difference to them. So does that suggest that my DMF is OK?  

 

I think for £60, I'm going to get new plugs and the latest PCV.

Edited 8 September, 2015 by planehazza

[PerformanceDiesel]

i put in new plugs noticed the ngks made running not so good so went back to set of original bosch ones. it makes running smoother and car starts easier with the bosch plugs. i have tried to delve into this idle pulse problem for a while but i havent managed to find conclusive evidence its any one part. have you taken any misfire logs when your getting these pulses?

[planehazza]

i put in new plugs noticed the ngks made running not so good so went back to set of original bosch ones. it makes running smoother and car starts easier with the bosch plugs. i have tried to delve into this idle pulse problem for a while but i havent managed to find conclusive evidence its any one part. have you taken any misfire logs when your getting these pulses?

 

Nope, I haven't got a VCDS and don't know anyone nearby.  I'm going to take it to my dealer's soon.

[planehazza]

Hi all. Small update...

 

I fitted new plugs tonight and it appears the problem has gone 95%.  It's still slightly there and I can't feel as much buzzing in the clutch pedal.  I'll keep an eye (butt cheek) on it over the next few hundred miles and keep you apprised.  

 

Here's what the old plugs looked like:

 

https://goo.gl/photos/VkLRa2tBdFy8S2uJ6

 

The coil packs:

 

https://goo.gl/photos/SC32cVhMYMtzCsBJA

 

https://goo.gl/photos/xcqFzRmd3X9QbK8C8

Edited 25 September, 2015 by planehazza

[Guest DobriKnotzGutenMorgan]

Rough idle etc.......is referred to as Hunting seemingly the buisness but there is diffrences in what that means to the individual. I too had the Mondeo derv and erratic idle commonly known on TalkFord/StdriverS.

 

I also did most of the above checks and replacing plus BG and Archoil to no avail. Pointed to injectors as one of the last resorts but also a software update by the Ford....which had mostly negative results.  I did not go down the injector route for cost and lived with it as the car still ran good and no dash board lights.

 

But......I now have the 2009 2.0 PD TDI with similar issues but wierdly it only happens when I brake the car and sits idle with a rattling underneath which really this should have nothing to do with the above.  

 

I will follow your post though. Wish you well..

[planehazza]

Rough idle etc.......is referred to as Hunting seemingly the buisness but there is diffrences in what that means to the individual. I too had the Mondeo derv and erratic idle commonly known on TalkFord/StdriverS.

 

I also did most of the above checks and replacing plus BG and Archoil to no avail. Pointed to injectors as one of the last resorts but also a software update by the Ford....which had mostly negative results.  I did not go down the injector route for cost and lived with it as the car still ran good and no dash board lights.

 

But......I now have the 2009 2.0 PD TDI with similar issues but wierdly it only happens when I brake the car and sits idle with a rattling underneath which really this should have nothing to do with the above.  

 

I will follow your post though. Wish you well..

 

 

Thanks dude.  The problem is still here, and as bad as before. The plugs haven't fixed it.  The garage said it's normal but I'm not convinced.  It seems to happen about 3-4 mins after starting from cold, once the engine is warm. It's almost uncomfortable...

[planehazza]

I've also noticed the car struggling around 2k RMP in first and second.  If you hold the car at a steady speed at 2k RPM in those gears, the car does a gentle 'kangerooing', where it speeds up and slows down on its own accord.  

 

Makes me think the car is choking then recovering and doing it again.

[PerformanceDiesel]

Mine does this abot but is noticably better on 97 ron fuel as opposed to 95. Its also been smoother with new bosch oem plugs as opposed to the ngks i originally swapped them out with. You can probably see the engine jerk alittle when its pulsing too?

[planehazza]

Mine does this abot but is noticably better on 97 ron fuel as opposed to 95. Its also been smoother with new bosch oem plugs as opposed to the ngks i originally swapped them out with. You can probably see the engine jerk alittle when its pulsing too?

Yeah you can see and feel it but the needle never moves from 800rpm.

[PerformanceDiesel]

This is exactly like mine. Some fuels brands seem to make it worse. I find esso 97 the smoothest. Im abit at a loss as to what it is as i noticed mine after i had done a service on the car. I cant really think what should have caused it though. I know alot of people reckon its due to being abit choked up with carbon. But im not totally sold on this fact

[dino190]

I have the same issue, with 2.0 bkd, 05 86k miles. Does it just a few miles after cold start, when stationary. Weird throbbing pulsing, and revs a tiny bit low of normal warmed up idle. When up to temp idles perfect. Its like a misfire, but different, appreciate that may make no sense. Had my other car remapped last week, and chap kindly ran VCDS over this one, came back transient fault on Glow plugs 1, 3 and 4, electrical connection fault on each, plus glowplug control module electrical fault. It runs fine otherwise, going to do nothing at the moment unless it gets worse, its due the timing belt next year, might just replace glow plugs then as well and see if it makes a difference. Would be interested to know if you get to the bottom of this.

[planehazza]

Interesting that it happens with diesels too. Curious to find common parts that could cause it. I'm definitely leaning towards it being throttle body or inlet manifold related. I've changed the spark plugs and it's possible that it has gotten worse, but it's hard to tell. I'm stuck now basically until I speak to the garage next weekend. Really don't want to pull it all apart just to find out I have to do it all again, and likewise I don't want to pay £320 for an IM for no reason.