Tyre wear

[MikeWales]

I bought 4 new Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons about 6 months ago. I checked the tyres on Sunday (not a usual occurrence but I was washing the car and I had bent down to wash the wheels, so I thought I'd look at the tyres while I was down there!) 

 

I noticed the near side front had worn just on the outside edge. The drivers side front had no noticeable wear.

 

I also had a bit of a flat tyre so I took Gwladys to the local tyre fettler to look at both issues. I assumed the front wheels needed tracking due to the odd wear.

 

The chap asked me if I went round roundabouts quickly - I admitted to the charge. He said that what was causing the front near side tyre to wear on the edge!

 

Has anyone else noticed this? Or should I get a second opinion? 

[Frenchtone]

Common problem in Milton Keynes!

[Yety]

My Goodyear 4 Seasons have been on for nearly two years showing normal wear. I give them a lot of gravel forest roads and mild off-road stuff in my travels, most notably in the recent snow and ice they were stunning in places where I would have been stuck before on the OEM tyres. 

 

Knocking wheels/kerbing to damage the tracking would normally be noticeable.

 

I'm very conscious of this when driving around gravel roads and try to read the road ahead and avoid the obvious rocks and debris lying around

[rustic]

They are wide tyres, when cornering, there will be scrubbing on all tyres, the tighter the turning circle, the greater the scrub.

Add speed to cornering and you will scrub the tyre with most weight on it.

For example, on a dry car park in the summer, you often hear squealing from some car tyres, even at very low speeds, this noise is the tyre scrubbing on the road surface, and means excessive tyre wear, and damage to your wallet.

Winter tyres are not designed for high speed, so all seasons might not be as good either.

It's probably a good time for all of us to check our tyres, and consider moving them around to even out this wear.

If you are scrubbing these tyres on roundabouts, you are also putting extra strain on the suspension and steering parts, and also run the risk of loosing control, should there be a diesel spill... I found a diesel spill this way once, luckily there was enough space to correct it.

When I got home, I reported it to the local authority, and they were there later to clean it up.

So take it easy.

[Llanigraham]

Wot!!!!

 

There are roundabouts in Haverfordwest!! 

 

Which reminds me, I must pop down and get my 2 new tyres fitted that I ordered last week.

[manxskoda]

Bet they are Kumho,s?

Tony

[rustic]

Wot!!!!

 

There are roundabouts in Haverfordwest!! ...

I guess they don't have diesel spills on roundabouts in wales....

they have leeks lol....

[survey]

I bought 4 new Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons about 6 months ago. I checked the tyres on Sunday (not a usual occurrence but I was washing the car and I had bent down to wash the wheels, so I thought I'd look at the tyres while I was down there!) 

 

I noticed the near side front had worn just on the outside edge. The drivers side front had no noticeable wear.

 

I also had a bit of a flat tyre so I took Gwladys to the local tyre fettler to look at both issues. I assumed the front wheels needed tracking due to the odd wear.

 

The chap asked me if I went round roundabouts quickly - I admitted to the charge. He said that what was causing the front near side tyre to wear on the edge!

 

Has anyone else noticed this? Or should I get a second opinion? 

I had exactly the same problem on my Mercedes coupe. I was convinced that the camber adjustment was out (not alignment you note).  2 MB dealers say that this is common and they said it was due to roundabouts! I was not convinced but the camber was checked and found to be OK.  So this may indeed be the cause. What I have now decided to do is to swap the fronts over to equalise the wear before the wear becomes excessive.

[CHILLEY]

My NSF has worn down more than the OSF, as I do take it easy, but driving through Telford you can't miss the roundabouts. So on outside rim NSF 3.mm and OSF 4.mm.

10123 miles so far. 38 months old.  Rears both at 5mm.

[Llanigraham]

Bet they are Kumho,s?

Tony

 

Correct!!

 

I guess they don't have diesel spills on roundabouts in wales....

they have leeks lol....

 

Norty Corner, now, boyo.................

[175GDY]

I had exactly the same problem on my Mercedes coupe. I was convinced that the camber adjustment was out (not alignment you note).  2 MB dealers say that this is common and they said it was due to roundabouts! I was not convinced but the camber was checked and found to be OK.  So this may indeed be the cause. What I have now decided to do is to swap the fronts over to equalise the wear before the wear becomes excessive.

So, you could adjust the camber to compensate for roundabouts?  :-)

[survey]

So, you could adjust the camber to compensate for roundabouts?  :-)

I made that suggestion to 2 MB franchises and they didn't think much of that idea! The car does 3K a year abroad and one would think that would help to even up the wear.  Maybe  I should spend lomger abroad! I shouldn't complain too much as the last set of tyres were changed at 32000 miles - but still annoying when there was tread left on the majority of the nearside tyre; it was the worn outer edge that looked unsightly.

[Carlodiesel]

Quote   " and consider moving them around to even out this wear "

 

​Not recommended to change wheels round like that. 

​If you have a problem with tyre wear it would be masked if you did this, and rapidly wear out two tyres instead of just the one.

 

Would be good to get wheel alignments checked to make sure all settings are correct.

 

Most heavy cars have this problem where the N/S tyre wears on outer edge quicker than the other side.

My Volvo V70 had the same problem.

[rustic]

Quote   " and consider moving them around to even out this wear "

 

​Not recommended to change wheels round like that. ...

For every web site that says move them around, there are many that say don't move them!

There are also other sites that recommend moving them depending if the car is front wheel drive or rear wheel drive, and different again if part time 4 wheel drive.

Also, should best tread be at the front or rear?

Directional tyres are more critical, but in the old days, ie 1980's then all tyres and wheels were the same, and you moved the tyres around in a star pattern, some diagonal, using the spare too.

So what is right?

Which is safest?

Which is the most cost effective? (this might not be the safest).

[Urrell]

From the manual.
""For uniform wear on all tyres, we recommend that you change the wheels every
10 000 km according to the scheme » Fig. 167- B. You will then obtain approximately
the same life for all the tyres.""

 

Edited 17 March, 2015 by Urrell

[wakev]

My Goodyear 4 seasons are worn on the edges on the front but both tyres are wearing the same, as did the set on my last Yeti and no more than I would expect on the front, sounds to me like you have a tracking or camber problem, take it to someone who can check both.   

[Carlodiesel]

With the onset of Radial tyres, changing F-R is now not the done thing.

As tyres wear they wear relative to their position on the car. So moving a badly wearing tyre to another position is frowned upon.

 

This is because, the tyre will continue to wear in the same way when you place it in a different location. Sometimes causing other problems, like steering pull,& droning.

As stated earlier, it masks a problem. Better to be able to see any unusual wear and then rectify that. Otherwise the problems stays with the car for ages.

 

So some times you will only need to buy 2 tyres & replace the worst 2 rather than having to buy all 4.

 

But like everything in life, its Your choice what you do. But these are just suggestions for you to think on.

 

As Urrell has shown, "For uniform wear on all tyres, we recommend that you change the wheels every 10 000 km".   Doing this means replacing all 4 at the same time.

 

Quoted from Kwikfit. FWIW,

Many tyre manufacturers agree that it is no longer good practice to rotate your tyres in order to extend their legal life. The reasons for this are;

• Partly worn tyres are more likely to experience punctures – particularly in wet weather conditions.
• Front tyre deflation will create an under-steer effect which is easier to control than over-steer (the effect produced by a rear tyre deflation)

In the unlikely event that a tyre deflates suddenly, then it is easier to control the vehicle if this occurs at the front of the vehicle. For improved handling and stability it is now recommended that the ‘best’ tyres should always be fitted at the rear of the vehicle. This is irrespective of whether the car is front or rear wheel drive.

Because of this at Kwik Fit we do not recommend tyre rotation and we do recommend fitting your best tyres at the rear of the vehicle. If you are replacing a single tyre then this should be paired with the rear with the tyre having the most tread depth. There are some circumstances when this advice does not apply, such as;

• Where front and rear tyre sizes are designed to be different
• Where a vehicle is designed to have directional tyres at the front and asymmetric at the rear

[thedinger]

Have the original set of Pirellis on 17" alloys & a set of Nokian winter tyres on 16" Superb steel rims, total mileage on both is 31k, about 6k on the Nokians. Pirellis still have 3 mm at front & barely measurable wear at the rear. I have both sets marked with tyraps on the spokes of the front tyres, make sure I put them back in the right place. Cheaper to only replace 2 fronts at a time instead of all 4 at the same time. No excessive wear to inner or outer shoulders seen on either sets, but I did have the tracking & all geometry checked & re-set not long after getting the car, it was about 1mm too much toe-in at the front but not had to touch it since. I also had both sets filled with pure Nitrogen soon after getting them (2 1/2 years ago) & not had to top up any of them since doing that. (Topic has been discussed here before).

Cheers.

[MikeWales]

Thanks for all for the comments. I will get a second opinion.

 

I did over 30,000 miles on the original Dunlop SP Sports, I don't think that front tyre is going to get to 15,000 miles from new.

 

Graham, you will be pleased to know there is 1 less roundabout in Haverfordwest now. They are in the process of taking the one away by Bland's the Vauxhall garage and replacing it with 5 way traffic lights. I think that will speed up the traffic flow no end! 

[rustic]

Thanks for all for the comments. I will get a second opinion.

I did over 30,000 miles on the original Dunlop SP Sports, I don't think that front tyre is going to get to 15,000 miles from new...

We had an Austin Ambassador, years ago, and we got 20,000 miles out of a set on the front, we were dissapointed until we talked to the tyre supplier, he said I did well to get that, normally that car turns them down like they were on a lathe. Aghh...

So... the car and make of tyre, as well as pressure, and driver attitude, plays a very important part in how well a tyre wears.

You might find a different make performs better, that's why forums like this are great, as we have a wide audience of like minded people.

When I say like minded, what I have found on this site, is most members are fairly frugal, and don't like wasting hard earnt money but the main aim is value for money.

We all tend to look after our cars, and don't mind pushing the limits now and again, and enjoy the performance.

This is also good to give the car some stick now and again. Helps the DPF too.

Short journeys or trundling along at 40 mph in top gear is never good, long term, for a modern diesel car.

[FlintstoneR1]

I first encountered "the roundabout effect" in the mid-70's when I ran my first Mini Cooper.  The front wheel bearings were non-adjustable, but under-specified (the S had bigger bearings!). So the 998 Cooper needed new bearings on the left every 12-months. The bearings on the right / offside lasted 2 years before replacement.

 

Since then I've always found many of my cars have tended to take out the n/s outer front edge faster than the o/s.  Plenty of roundabouts means the average car (in UK) encounters nearly twice as many right hand corners compared to left handers, at a very rough estimate, depending on region. So there is correspondingly greater load on that n/s front outer edge. Does vary a lot from car to car though. Especially noticeable on front drive cars. Less noticeable on rear drivers*. But does still depend on the geometry set up of the particular model. Castor and camber, not just toe-in. Some more prone than others, even when correctly set per manufacturer spec. Not necessarily an indication of a fault. More of how much natural understeer is built into the standard geometry spec.

 

In 40,000 miles with the Yeti, I've found it less affected than most, but still detectable from when the front left is about half worn. That's with SWMBO doing the majority of the Yeti driving. It's mine only about 20%!

 

* But that may have been because during the time I had three Escort RS2000s in succession, roundabouts tended to be negotiated with a touch of opposite lock, angle of attack being taken care of by the right foot  .  So the rear tyres took the brunt of any wear!

Edited 20 March, 2015 by FlintstoneR1

[Paul52]

An interesting thread and particularly that Kwik-Fit and Skoda offer conflicting advice. I decided to switch my tyres front-to-back at around 10,000 miles. The fronts were wearing noticeably faster than the rears and it seemed to make sense to have the greatest tread where the drive and steering takes place (and possibly most of the braking in extreme circumstances?). I've now reached the point where all four tyres are equally worn and will need replacing in the foreseeable future. So although I've now got to pay for four tyres all at one time rather than a pair and another pair later on it does mean my tyre choice isn't going to be restricted by having to consider the pair of tyres that wouldn't be changed. So I'm where I want to be - able to switch to all year tyres on all four wheels before next autumn.

 

From Carlo diesel's post "In the unlikely event that a tyre deflates suddenly, then it is easier to control the vehicle if this occurs at the front of the vehicle. For improved handling and stability it is now recommended that the ‘best’ tyres should always be fitted at the rear of the vehicle. This is irrespective of whether the car is front or rear wheel drive" I don't know whether as a principle this is true or not but only having had two sudden deflations in 40 years of driving, and one of those being forced off the road by an on-coming lorry, I think it is likely to be such an unusual occurrence that I'm not going to let that worry me. 

[clv101]

"...it seemed to make sense to have the greatest tread where the drive and steering takes place (and possibly most of the braking in extreme circumstances?).t seemed to make sense to have the greatest tread where the drive and steering takes place (and possibly most of the braking in extreme circumstances?)."

I guess most people would find understeer eaiser to deal with than oversteer, suggesting it would be better for the front to let go before the back? Maybe better to have your best tyres on the rear?

[Urrell]

If I have a sudden deflation I hope it's at the rear.

I'd much rather face having to control a twitcy rear than the main steering and braking wheels especially if the sudden deflation is on a bend to an outside wheel.

I suspect for those that do not slide a car around much the ESC would help out pretty good for a rear deflation.

[FlintstoneR1]

Carlo quoting from ?KwikFit? and others (Very helpful Carlo - I'm just querying the quoted logic) :

 

"This is because, the tyre will continue to wear in the same way when you place it in a different location"

- surely not if it is the steering geometry or wheel alignment at fault?  Then you'll get the unusual wear in the same location, regardless of which tyre you put there?  Surely?  Or are they saying some manufacturers make tyres that wear unevenly due to defects within the tyre's construction? :no:

 

"In the unlikely event that a tyre deflates suddenly, then it is easier to control the vehicle if this occurs at the front of the vehicle"

- I'm not convinced by that assertion. Like Urrell, I'd much rather the blow-out occurred on the rear, than on the end that does all the steering and 80% of the braking or clearing the wet from the tarmac. But then I'm used to dealing with some oversteer on either rear wheel drive or on a Peugeot 205 and would much prefer that to terminal understeer that just takes you into the ditch/wall head first. Then again I guess I'm odd in that I'm also used to being driven through forests using the side windows to view which way we're going, not the windscreen! 

 

"There are some circumstances when this advice does not apply, such as where front and rear tyre sizes are designed to be different."

- Glad about that! :clap:   My Beemer is "designed" to have 225 width tyres on the front and 255s on the back. Those get replaced as when necessary. That means the tyres with the most tread often end up being those on the front.

 

"But like everything in life, its Your choice what you do"

- I'm glad about that too!   And that my local KwikFit were happy enough to put the new tyres on the front of my Yeti on Tuesday, with the 20% part  worns going to the rear.

Edited 20 March, 2015 by FlintstoneR1