Vrs engine death.

[Rooted]

Some Members on here & not on Briskoda took legal actions against the Dealers that they had paid to put the Stage 1 MAP on their car.

There really is the possibility of a problem if you go ahead and up the power of a unit that might already be liable to issues just running the Factory Engine Management, and it needs updates and modifying.

Common sense or just a gamble needs to be taken really.

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

 

................................

So a good chance to ask again,

?

Has anyone had or know of anyone with a CTHE Remapped by REVO, APR, Shark or anyone else?

Edited 25 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

It was all explained to me by someone who is an actual car mechanic and could bother shedding a light as to what was happening with that map in more detail. It wasn't just lambda which at that particular rpm range was dangerously high (almost 15% higher than stock at something like 1.3 bar compared to 0.6 as stock iirc) but also ingition timing etc. All current 1.4 tsi maps are using much less aggressive values as he told me. The outcome was that APR indeed corrected that file with an update back then. I don't have those logs I just read through that forum as the discussion had been going on for tenths of pages and just wanted to focus on what was the outcome.

 

Regarding responsibility I think you missed my point. I didn't say the tuner has to pay if it is his fault, because as you say most tuners basically say: come to us, give us your ECU but then if it breaks we won't pay anything. Agreed. You won't get any money back from them. It still is their fault though and it is a lesson for you to learn that the X tuner is useless as a few early vRS owners here learned the hard way back in 2011 iirc. I think you would agree to that?

 

OK, I will dig more into the technicalities here, if had however any memory of where you found that thread discussing the issues in detail I'd be obliged if you could post it here, thanks

 

I agree with you, it is their fault in a broad sense. Yet, as George remarked, the engine would have probably crapped out without any re-map but perhaps a little bit later where the map simply brought that failure sooner. That is one explanation and having had a look at that plug I think it is a very likely one.

The other is as you say a very bad map which simply destroyed the engine but I cannot see the evidence. Spark plugs are a wonderful thing and by looking at them one can tell absolutely everything that is going on inside the combustion chamber. You can tell of the ignition advance is correct, if the AFR is correct, you can tell if it suffers from detonation and overheating or whether it is burning oil or even if here is the correct compression in the cylinder .

 

So it is up to the detialed Engineer's Report to draw the correct conclusions whether the map was not up to the job and caused the engine failure (tuner at fault but will still not cough up anything unless really reputable) or whether the engine had an pre-existing problem exacerbated by the re-mapping.

 

One way or another I stil think it is very highly unlikely that the OP is going to get any contribution from anywhere but his own bank account.

The main point is to identify what is wrong and very precisely fix the damaged parts and the fault that caused it in the first place.

 

Then enjoy miles of happy motoring:)!

[Rooted]

http://abt-sportsline.com

 

http://abt-sportsline.de/en/about-abt/warranty

 

DOH,

 My bad on that Tuners do not Warranty a vehicle with a Re-Map . Sorry for my duff gen.

 

?

So did ABT offer Tuning & Remaps for the 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 Twinchargers CAVE / CAD / CTHE 

and more important do they still and Provide Warranty Cover on them?

 

................

The Answer.  Yes.

http://abt-configurator.com/en/Skoda/Fabia/Limo._Combi/5J0/14TSI180

 

2 Year Warranty, Germany.

"Due to country specific regulations different condions may apply ............etc  

Edited 26 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Richf]

Not all fail as standard to begin with. So which do and which don't and why you figure it out. Regarding the map an overly lean map will cause extreme EGT and consequently burn plugs, melt pistons etc the way I see it. The people that were logging their cars back on 2011 and were seeing alarmingly high values were doing so while their cars worked fine they didn't go boom the first time they floored it. And still, APR had to push out an update to correct this so no reason to believe if it doesn't go pop in the first km all is good. Or, that very same map may get away on the better engines but cause weaker ones (for example ones with poor squirters? oil burners) to fail. Not so easy to make a diagnosis, at least for me, on a car I don't know and of which I haven't got the slightest technical info/data of what is/was happening inside.

Yes a lean map will burn plugs , all four plugs or at least a few rarely one with three good ones

When mapping you are adding more air , more fuel and more boost , in turn making more heat , that's why it's common to go to a harder plug

To have one cylinder so lean that it burns through a piston and the other three not even burning plugs or misfiring up indicates to me the map is unlikely to be at fault unless a fundamental error has been made with regards to one cylinder rather than the map

All a spark plug needs to do is spark and survive the conditions in the chamber

Warranty or no warranty if a faulty map has caused this failure then there may be a legal route for the op

[Rooted]

If you still have your car, maybe go whip out the 4 plugs, and depending on how you were driving before you parked up,

you might see the 1 spark plug that has Oil / Carbon deposits on, and looks different from the other 3.

 

Now this is the spark plug that expires first.

This is the Cylinder & Valves on this cylinder that expires normally first.

 

If you have 4 matching spark plugs this morning and you were not giving it a nice hot run last night, just a short or slowish potter about,

then fantastic, a good Engine Management, no fouling of the usual spark plug. 

Winner.

[Jabozuma]

How would you prove, as onus is on you to prove it, that the map caused the catastrophic failure in OP's cause?

If the tune was catastrophically fekked up then it would have blown the motor very quickly.

 

BTW, I spoke with ABT guys, map for twincharger engines is £1300 and they give full 2 years warranty if the car is no older than 2 years.

Their system comprises a secondary "piggy back" ECU. Great idea in itself but for 210bhp it is not worth it imho. If it was giving 250bhp then yes.

Edited 26 March, 2015 by Jabozuma

[Rooted]

So basically is the secondary "piggy back" ECU more commonly called a Tuning Box ?

(in nicer packaging, Alloy)

 

Edited 26 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Jabozuma]

Nope, tuning box is a "dumb system" which messes with signals, the ABT thing is a fully blown ECU which is piggy backed to the OEM one and works with it (i.e. directly controls chosen subsystems of the car) the way I understand it.

[wja96]

Yes, the ABT and MTM "Cantronic" systems are more correctly described as CANBus interceptor boxes as they have full access to all CANBus data.

[Rooted]

Thank you for explaining that.

So they give the same results taking the 1.4 TSI / TFSI with Minimum 180 / 185 ps to 210 PS.

 

It will be interesting to know if any of the cars fitted with this Piggy Back System failed in just the same way as the standard engines were.

If not, the then Volkswagen Know right away that there might be a solution to the numerous failures and that the Standard Factory Engine Management and even Factory Updates were at fault or part of the cause and it was was not just Design, Materials / Components, & Quality Control.

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik

'Use a partners experience and expertise to fix your mistakes.'

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

Edited 27 March, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[vxh26]

How would you prove, as onus is on you to prove it, that the map caused the catastrophic failure in OP's cause?

I suspect that it would be nigh on impossible to prove one way or another what caused the engine to fail. If no (relatively unconditional) warranty is in place, The best possible outcome is going to be some highly unlikely ex-gratia contribution towards rectifying the failure. One can but hope.

 

Frankly, I look forward to the day when Skoda offer a five or seven year warranty as many Asian manufacturers seem confident to do.

[Richf]

Mappers have been sued for engine failures , I've see the posts on forums , unfortunately though when things are resolved one of the conditions of the settlement is that all the posts are removed/deleted.

[Rooted]

You may have seen the same happen here on Briskoda where the threads were deleted.

That was threads and posts concerning REVO remaps done on MK2 Fabia vRS 1.4 TSI.

[Richf]

Seen it many times on other forums, since I have owned Jap imports for 10+ years , mapping is part and parcel of ownership , on the Evo forum there was a few high profile cases including one Evo 10 that had a fresh engine fail (£25k build)  on the dyno during mapping , of course , all posts were removed at the end.

 

Much better if you can learn to do it yourself and then you have an understanding and no-one else to blame

[Rooted]

Thread started on Sunday, & now Friday.  

maybe some update from the OP would be good if possible and no confidentiality agreement has been signed.

 

I hope this thread does not disappear from the Forum.

(but seeing as it is the internet they may cease to be immediately visible, but they never fully go,

just like stuff on cars ECU's these days.)

[MartynVRS]

As I've said before. If you don't want it seen online don't post it. I have a new car but nothing will ever go online about it apart from a few pictures because I know full well when it comes to resale time, some will expect me to pull out every single thing I've ever posted about it to save people doing the search in the first place. Despite the fact it would be all out of context.

[sharkrider]

As I've said before. If you don't want it seen online don't post it. I have a new car but nothing will ever go online about it apart from a few pictures because I know full well when it comes to resale time, some will expect me to pull out every single thing I've ever posted about it to save people doing the search in the first place. Despite the fact it would be all out of context.

don't think anyone will every buy mine then! lol...

[Jabozuma]

Rest assured, a very few people will ever be able to find anythong in this way in reality and there isn't that many active members around here

I'd agree with Martyn, don't post if you do not want it to be in the public domain.

[MartynVRS]

When I own a car I use it exactly as I want to but aware of any risks as you are. Its just disheartening that the way things are now that when it comes to resale there's more scrutiny. It's something we can't really change now.

[Jabozuma]

I service my cars by myself and I always (bar one and I am still annoyed about it!) sell them privately. People who buy it from me appreciate and I am always thousands better off on sale price compared to aby other means of selling it. That plus huge savings over the years of on dealer/indy specialist servicing it. I wish I had a gatage big enough for a cat lift which would allow me to do other things myself as well

[vxh26]

<snip> Its just disheartening that the way things are now that when it comes to resale there's more scrutiny. <snip>

Equally disheartening is the way some crooked sellers lie about the state of the car and what has happened / been done to it, pretending that it was only ever driven by a fifty-something lady vicar.

 

Caveat emptor!

[MartynVRS]

Equally disheartening is the way some crooked sellers lie about the state of the car and what has happened / been done to it, pretending that it was only ever driven by a fifty-something lady vicar.

Caveat emptor!

You'll always have that and that will never change. I was over honest and all I got was time wasters as all it caused was confusion. Ended up giving the car to a wbac equivalent. Got almost exactly the price I was after and not some of the insulting ones I had here, from people who have seen how I've owned the car since new to PH people who think calling the car crap and offering me £5k is the way to do business.

[Jabozuma]

Being a member here I'd never advertise my car for sale here! One of the most important pre-requisits of being able to sell your used car succesfully is a rhino thick skin I am afraid, complete lack of emotions and a patience of a saint

[Rooted]

Maybe best to avoid buying used if, Vicar, Lady, 50, Granny, Grandad appear in the advert.

Unless you want a car that was used as it was supposed to be.

 

http://facebook.com/Unreachable.DTunningley

[vxh26]

Last year I advertised a car on Gumtree twice, separated by three months. The first time I advertised it for the price I wanted and got silly offers from people who didn't even bother to come and look at it. The second time I inflated the asking price by 25% and ended up getting a price better than I had asked for the first time. As it happens, the buyer still got a reliable bargain - both parties happy

 

The whole thing is a lottery, it just depends on whether or not your car is seen by someone who genuinely wants it.