DSG judder in 2nd gear

[Laars]

I recently switched from Castrol to Mobil 1 and there has been some changes. Oil temperature was lower with Castrol, but it did use some oil (1L in 9500 miles). With Mobil 1 it runs hotter, but doesn't use any oil seemingly (0L in 1500 miles).

[Rooted]

With Mobil 1 i run easily 2*oC Indicated lower Oil Temp than when using Castrol Edge 5w 30.

& with Shell Helix Ultra 5w 40 even cooler, currently in mid to high Teens Ambient Temperature below an Indicated 90*oC at 70 MPH.

Edited 13 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Laars]

I did a 320 mile round trip a few weeks ago (right after oil switch) and when driving with cruise setup at 80 MPH my oil temp was consistently at around 97 degrees, which seems a bit high. 

With Castrol it was nearly 5 degrees lower or something else has happened..

[Rooted]

Thursday this week,  

After lots of trials and miles. Performance and Economy.

Stage 1 210bhp, DENSO Spark Plugs,

99 ron Tesco Momentum, Shell Helix Ultra, 215 All Season Tyres,

Standard Air Filter, Cheap Oil Filter (£3.50 Mahle) 

Nice and cool oil and economic running.

Edited 13 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Wakey]

We are talking about the gearbox oil now. In principle it doesn't need to changed, but Skoda issued a campaign for the oil to be changed, so it probably is somewhat important. 

 

 

You'd be amazed at the difference a gearbox oil can make to the shift quality.

[Rooted]

Not really with the DQ200 DSG as fitted to the vRS,

 but the change to mineral from synthetic is what they came up with for the internal corrosion issue,

and the revised Software with the Oil Change has had some effect, some good and some not so good.

 

I have Synthetic oil in the DSG, and uprated Clutches and software.

[Wakey]

George, what do you think about suggesting an 'Italian tune up'?

 

I've had juddery clutches on manual 'boxes due to damp weather and town driving and its always got rid of it....?

[Rooted]

Not on a Twincharger / DSG.

 

First get the engine running correctly, 

and since the cars Spark Plugs are an unknown item, change them.

Once you know the engine performs correctly,  you see if the DSG behaves.

 

If not why, Mechatronic Control Unit, or Clutch Packs, 

But do not have an Engine go off a cylinder while trying to find out why it holds gears longer.  

Then you have 2 big problems instead of 1 minor one.

 

...............

The DQ200 has a learning ability.

My car can feel like sh1te after borrowed by someone, and takes a while to behave again.

Lots of Demonstrators or used cars are rubbish when first borrowed until they reset.

Just as Journalists Media Cars were from Road Tests, then they write they are sh1te and that is repeated article after article.

You would think they might know about modern Automated Manual & Automatic Gearboxes.

 

...............

See page 101 ' Automatic Gearbox',

2010 Owners Manual.

'Dynamic Shift Programme'.

 

................

 

http://hp.net.au/index.php/products/dq200

Edited 14 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Dangerousdriver]

I called Skoda UK to complain about the oil consumption which is now by my measurements 1L every 600 miles or so.

 

They have advised me to do an oil consumption test and they advised me to allow the oil to empty until the oil light comes on which I don't like the idea of!

 

I have been given a ref number to quote to the dealer and i'll get them to check the DSG judder as well.

 

Went to clean my car yesterday and the exhausts are blackened that even with metal polish they don't come clean. Matt black pipes look quite good though ;0) but I keep finding soot spots on the rear bumper so it's defo a smoker and judging by the amount of soot she's on 100 a day lol

 

I tried that DSG reset yesterday but didn't find a difference at all so think it's a load of rubbish, but I've read others swear by it.

[Rooted]

Soot if not oil spots and you get soot spots on cars that use no oil. Never done a DSG reset as described by others either, load of tosh, JIMHO.

[Rooted]

If they suggest you run it until an oil low warning light or warning message pr low oil pressure light comes on at near 1\3rd oil capacity low, then get whoever to put that in writing with their name and position or qualifications and Email it to you. Then you are covered.

[Dangerousdriver]

If they suggest you run it until an oil low warning light or warning message pr low oil pressure light comes on at near 1\3rd oil capacity low, then get whoever to put that in writing with their name and position or qualifications and Email it to you. Then you are covered.

 

Oh I fully intend to as when the light comes on it's too late in my eyes and the damage is done!!

 

NO they are defo soot spots, They come off if you blow on them but there also oil spots much like tar spotting over the whole of the rear.

[Rooted]

If the oil the engine is burning with Bore Wash or Piston Rings not seating and sealing, compression is lost in one cylinder,

and oil is getting past the Cat, through the exhaust and then coming out the tail pipe you will be needing a new engine and be sure the Cat is checked and replaced if contaminated.

 

Skoda UK have under warranty had to replace Cats in the past.

*The issues are not unknow by VW, Skoda, Seat & Audi after all just in the UK they have rebuilt originally then

replaced several hundred engines from 2009-2015.*

Vorsprung Durch Tecknik

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technik/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

[Dangerousdriver]

I bet they'll rub their hands together thinking about charging me with all the investigatory work i'll need??

[Rooted]

If you have no warranty yes on the Engine issues.

But has Skoda UK Approved a Oil Consumption test, and then what else, are they going to look at resolving the issue,

or are you starting to run up a bill.

 

The DQ200 DSG investigation should not cost you,

they need to be sure that the Service Campaign work was carried out.

 

They paid someone to do it, they know which Dealership.

?

Is there a sticker in the Boot to show the Service Campaign work as done>

[Dangerousdriver]

You'd be amazed at the difference a gearbox oil can make to the shift quality.

 

Confirmed with the dealer yesterday that my DSG box did have the required oil change under the campaign. It was interesting though hearing all the things that the car has been in for. Luckily none of it too serious, a dodgy solenoid, some wiring loom in the engine bay, some loom in the door but no engine or DSG issues.

[Dangerousdriver]

If you have no warranty yes on the Engine issues.

But has Skoda UK Approved a Oil Consumption test, and then what else, are they going to look at resolving the issue,

or are you starting to run up a bill.

 

The DQ200 DSG investigation should not cost you,

they need to be sure that the Service Campaign work was carried out.

 

They paid someone to do it, they know which Dealership.

?

Is there a sticker in the Boot to show the Service Campaign work as done>

 

I have no warranty whatsoever but will look at getting the Skoda warranty when I go in.

 

They checked and found my car did have the DSG oil change under the campaign last July. Also read off a list of everything the car has been in for fault wise previously and mostly electrical such as faulty solenoid, engine loom wiring, door loom. Was relieved to hear no engine or DSG issues though.

 

It looks though as if the plugs have never been changed according to Skoda so they've booked those in but quoted me £111 for the plugs so i'll do that myself methinks!!

 

Is this the plugs you were talking about mate

 

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Skoda_Fabia_1.4_2011/p/car-parts/car-service-parts/regular-service/spark-plugs/?408778820&1&03cd3e2e34af2cb558315783473e8c384b40ba9d&000301

 

They are going to do a service and change the oil and then measure it.

 

Skoda said they will look at whether I'm liable for any investigation work should a fault be identified. Said I was a long time VAG customer which is true, nearly all my cars have been VW, Seat and Skoda. He said we wouldn't want to push you away from VAG Sir... I've always been partial to a bit of VAG

Edited 17 June, 2015 by Dangerousdriver

[Rooted]

Good stuff.

 

Maybe others can comment on those VK20 DENSO plugs, some have used them and they do cross check for the car.

 

I use the DENSO SKJ20CR-A8#4

They can be a bit more expensive but not let me down.

 

Do you know how to remove the Ignition Coils, and the Inlet pipe you need to get easier to the plug at the drivers side?

there is a thread showing you.

You need a Ignition Coil Removing tool, or to make one, and take care with them.

[Dangerousdriver]

Good stuff.

 

Maybe others can comment on those VK20 DENSO plugs, some have used them and they do cross check for the car.

 

I use the DENSO SKJ20CR-A8#4

They can be a bit more expensive but not let me down.

 

Do you know how to remove the Ignition Coils, and the Inlet pipe you need to get easier to the plug at the drivers side?

there is a thread showing you.

You need a Ignition Coil Removing tool, or to make one, and take care with them.

 

Where did you get your plugs mate? I don't mind paying more for them...

 

I've removed coils before on my previous cars, my Mk4 GTI was notorious for coils pack replacement.

 

They are tricky but I always managed it without a tool, just go slow and be careful with pliers and fingers.

 

What's the easiest way to make one these days?

[Rooted]

Any Motor Factor, they look up on the Computer, see 3 or 4 Suitable, be sure they know it is the engine it is.

Not complicated but so many look at the wrong ones.

 

ask Euro Car Parts if they can get in the other DENSO, but those will be OK,

not heard anyone say they had an issue.

 

I think one of the Australian members uses the VK20 Denso.

 

 

PS.

You can do it without a tool.

 Use a Zip Tie, or like my home made item,  but i would really just as well spend £12 and get a Tool.

(i am Scottish and tight, so do not.)

Edited 17 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Dangerousdriver]

Thursday this week,  

After lots of trials and miles. Performance and Economy.

Stage 1 210bhp, DENSO Spark Plugs,

99 ron Tesco Momentum, Shell Helix Ultra, 215 All Season Tyres,

Standard Air Filter, Cheap Oil Filter (£3.50 Mahle) 

Nice and cool oil and economic running.

 

In terms of Stage 1 remap, how do you find this? Definitely worth doing?

 

I'm thinking of swapping the Edge 5w 30 for Helix 5w 40. I'm getting temps of around 93 with normal driving so a fair bit higher than you.

 

Very angry, last night entered the car park of my local morrisons and there is a drain that has sunk causing my front bumper to ground out and take a fair chunk of paint off. Needless to say I complained and was told that it's a common issue. Sent the pics off to the insurance dept for assessment.

[Dangerousdriver]

Well the car has been in for service after having dealt with a very incompetent Skoda UK Customer Service Manager. They changed the oil and I requested the plugs be changed too. Definitely feels better with the new plugs, more responsive.

They didn't test drive to check the 2nd gear judder and claimed afterwards they knew nothing about it despite me providing them with the Skoda case number when I booked the service!

The Skoda tech said my car has hardly drank any oil so I had to explain that a week before service the car was running low and I had some journeys involving motorways I didn't want to run the risk of running low so I topped it. I was looked at with suspicion by the tech who also claimed my brake discs were scored which suggested they had been used hard... Really yes that's why I bought a VRS! The tech suggested that the recommendation for the amount of oil I was using would be to fit a breather pipe mod which I know about and by all accounts hardly ever work. I was advised to get back in touch with Skoda to see if the cost could be offset by them.

I then spoke to Skoda and the inept customer service manager who told me she had spoken to the tech at the dealership and that in fact my car was not using a lot of oil... After ten minutes and ten different ways to try and get her to grasp me I finally made her understand why I had topped the car up despite knowing the oil would be changed a few days later.

So now I'm going to have to go back again for them to carry out an oil consumption test which I assumed could be carried out as they knew what they put in at service and how many miles on the clock when that took place, but no they want £90 odd quid and my car back once again.

The DSG judder is developing a pattern. It seems when it's very hot of which it has been lately it seems to trigger the judder. The other day I did 22 mile round trip. On the way no traffic and open roads, the way home a bit of traffic and it started halfway home. Then at the weekend again very hot did a 40 mile trip mostly motorway. Once I got near to where I was going and in traffic the judder started. But it's very intermittent at best.

I'm pretty sure that Skoda will do their upmost to wiggle out of any responsibility they have and most of my friends are advising me to sell now before I'm faced with a big bill... I have to say I love the VRS but I'm thinking about selling.

Thinking of going back to a Type R which has more room in the back and a huge Tardis like boot.

[Rooted]

You had best have your Case Handler at Skoda UK Approve the Oil Consumption Test.

If a Dealership Technician has already advised the Breather Pipe Update, 

that should include the Software Update,

& the Test Results might lead to Skoda / Warranty having to pay for the Oil Spray Jets to be Upgraded.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/261614-dealer-wants-to-charge-for-oil-consumption-test

This is just 1 of several similar threads.  Skoda UK Knows the Issues are from Fundamental Design, & Component Flaws.

Which is why they have Updates & Upgrades, and the CAVE engine was replaced with the CTHE which 

they are also requiring to Upgrade with Oil Spray Jets in some cases.

So Skoda UK & Skoda Dealerships know that Oil Consumption Tests are required to confirm the work is required.

If you did pay a Dealer, then that is due back to you, as is any other expenses,

like charging extra Insurance for the courtesy car.

 

PS

Scored Discs are nothing to do with Spirited Driving,

it is grit and corrosion trapped between the pads and discs scoring grooves around the disc,

not hard braking skimming and smoothing the disc or turning them Blue from Cooking.

3 Month old and newer demonstrators being sold to a customer can have Scored Discs as any 

Skoda Technician knows.

I have Service Reports showing that, and where the Workshop then skim the Discs rather than replacing them.

I have pictures of New cars with a few hundred miles covered with heavily Corroded and Scored Brake Discs.

Edited 13 July, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Rooted]

Back to the DSG Judder.

Sorry still not sure on your answer.

 

?

Has the car had the Service Campaign work done free on the DSG or was it not required.

The Mechatronic Control Unit function checked,

The Synthetic Oil changed to Mineral & a Software Update.

Also a Sticker in the book to show the Field Action as having been carried out.

 & the Information in the Service Book & on the Cars Service History on the Skoda System?

[Andymod]

I deal with clutch judder regularly, work at a VW dealer. There is a dedicated test plan to follow in Odis. On every occasion I have come across its the clutch pack. If you get chance on a quiet road set off slowly in D, when the dash indicates its in 2nd gear slow down to around 10 kmh. Then accelerate but not too hard, don't want it to kick down to 1st. Try and do it on a slight uphill. I have a road near to the dealership I use all the time. The clutch will normally judder under this procedure. The test plan basically checks and updates the software, then erases all adaption values. You then have to road test to adapt the clutch and gear changes. Once adaption is complete you have to carry out the test mentioned. If the clutch judders it's a replacement job.

I can't understand why dealers won't or can't diagnose clutch judder on the 7 speed dry clutch DSG, the test plan is idiot proof.