Cambelt change time, brave the DIY?! :) Couple of Questions

[jimbof]

Thanks.  I did have a "copy" of it a while ago; in the end I figured it better to buy some time on ERWIN and download the very latest, as it wasn't clear that the ETKA was the most up to date.  I've never managed to get any sort of proper parts lookup working on VIN numbers, which is annoying though.

 

Picked up the crankshaft bolts yesterday, £3.40 or so for the 4 from TPS.  Looks like mine is fitted with the M8x17mm ones (assuming they've given me the right parts!) - though in fairness, they've not been wrong yet.

[Sheldon.Cooper]

Do you need to use any of the locking tools?

 

Once tension has been released you can cut 1/2 the original belt off (width wise) then slide the new belt on.  Once on cut the remaining old belt off, slide new one on fully and re-tension.  No chance of affecting timing at all as it goes on exactly the same as original.

[rotodiesel]

Complete bodge - won't work on a PD engine with locked in torque.

 

Unless you do the job properly with the locking tools and with the cam wheel bolts slackened to avoid locked torque there will be grief.

 

Cutting belts is an "under the arches" trick.

 

rotodiesel.

[jimbof]

That approach scares the living daylights out of me...! The tools are only £12.98 delivered ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331571304484 ) - and I got both types of crank locking tools for that, two cam locking dowels, plus a spare "tuna can key" for the tensioner, and another right angle pin I don't know what is for (I guess another engine).

[Nackuk]

I did my cam belt some time ago and can say I throughly enjoyed the experience! I took the front of the car off, and did the tensoror alternator pully and water pump at the sam etime.

 

I took photos thoughout - whihc I was going to do a right up on but nevr got round to doing. Enjoy!

 

http://nackuk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/skoda-superb-timing-belt.html

 

Removing the front of the car is rewritten up and in detail here.

 

http://nackuk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/removing-front-off-skoda-superb.html

 

Might be helpful, might be not.

[jimbof]

I did have a good look at your piccies, very useful indeed.  You must have 3 hands is all I can say!

I am waiting to see if my water level is still dropping slightly over time - I think it is... If it is I might consider renewing the radiator at the same time 

I did the alternator pulley, AC tensioner and aux tensioner about 30K ago with INA parts, so they should be good for a little while longer, but I'll replace the belts.  I have bought a new BERU water pump and all the requisite bolts / studs / etc.  

I am quite looking forward to getting stuck in with it.

[dieselV6]

Well, I started doing the belt job on my V6 yesterday afternoon, and after freeing 4th or 5th seized bolt, rounding off thoroughly one of inside upper lock carrier to chassis bolts (despite Plusgas and the usual torx/larger torx/hex tricks), and identifying a headlamp washer leak before I even took any parts off the engine, I decided that perhaps it is time to start looking at buying a new Mk3 instead in 2-3 years time.

 

The Mk1 has served me well, by far the best car I have ever owned, but evidently it has reached its serviceability limits after 137k miles and 9+ years. I will try to return most parts to ECP to recover costs and sell the rest on Ebay, and from now on my Mk1 Superb becomes a "how long can you run a timing belt on a V6 diesel before it snaps" project 

[FLAPPERJACK7]

That's a shame. I have done a few myself and never enjoyed doing the v6 diesel. Dealer fit time is 3.5 hour's and it always takes me longer. It's not hard just slow and fiddly. Reckon you might just last 2 more year's.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Gaz]

...from now on my Mk1 Superb becomes a "how long can you run a timing belt on a V6 diesel before it snaps" project 

 

:'(

 

Tbf it's a job I might've tackled 25 years ago, but I now lack the enthusiasm and would rather leave it to some other poor s o d 

 

Have you started yet Jim?

 

Gaz

[jimbof]

Not yet. Spent this weekend changing over the rotted tailgate on my little brother's B6 Passat Estate. Nice to see that 10 years on from designing the B5 they still can't make numberplate lights that don't rot the chassis <facepalm>

[jimbof]

If you buy new bolts (good idea) beware - there are two lengths. My AWX has M8 x 37 cap head bolts. The last PD belt I changed was on an Audi fitted with an AVF engine. The bolts fitted to the AVF were M8 x 17 cap head.

This sticks in my mind because a bolt sheared on the AVF on attempted removal. Of course, it was a Sunday but I had a spare old AWX bolt which I cut down to complete the job. Getting the broken stub out did not improve my views of VAG design... (last belt change on the Audi was by an Audi dealer - complete with white paint and other bodges).

As I always say, EKTA is your friend. It's by far the best VAG documentation and I don't think I've ever spotted an error. Other VAG documentation is lamentable (eg. wrong engine oil spec. in owner's book).

rotodiesel.

And of course, TPS supplied me with the wrong ones, only realised once they're out. The damper is in a terrible state because some numpty left the cap off it, so I think I'll refit for now with the originals (they at least came out whole) and get new bolts and damper ordered. And my coolant leak source is now discovered - plug on the water pump has been seeping and making a right old mess. Fun times.

[dieselV6]

I always admire pictures of Superb with front completely off, and used them in preparation for my TB job, but unless the front requires replacement of parts (you mentioned the rad), it really is only 27 bolts, 3 grip pins, an air intake and PS pump cover (and LH lower intercooler pipe on a V6) to undo in order to bring the front forward to service position where you can do all effort required for TB/WP. You do not even have to remove bumper beam, which for me is a blessing as I've got aux lights hanging off the bottom of it. After recent repeated alternator jobs, I can bring front to service position in well under half hour.  In fact, even ElsaWin describes more effort than needed for service position, as they advise to remove bumper beam as well as loosen PS cooler pipe at the bottom of radiator.

 

Regarding vibration damper, if it is working and just has surface rust inside, I'd clean it, zinc the inside and put it back. New dampers are expensive, well over 100 quid for reputable parts. But that water pump leak needs addressing too, have fun scraping the gasket (took me probably an hour just for the gasket).

Edited 28 February, 2016 by dieselV6

[Gaz]

Making good progress Jim 

 

Gaz

[SuperbTWM]

You do have to slacken the 3 retaining bolts when refitting the belt to avoid locked in torque though, don't you?

 

I just thought I would chime in and say I've done a few PD belts and never had to slacked the retaining bolts. Mainly because at the time I didn't realise and never had any issues, maybe I got lucky.

 

But it is the best practice and correct method so I would make sure you did undo them and had VCDS to fine tune the timing afterwards by moving the cam relative to the sprocket.

Edited 28 February, 2016 by SuperbTWM

[dieselV6]

The reason why the camshaft retaining bolts do need to be slackened is to remove the residual unevenness in tension of the belt between consecutive cogs. This is especially important for the V6 with two head camshaft cogs, though PD is likely to notice impact as well as belt stresses are much higher. If gears are not loosened, belt life is shortened, how far it depends on how uneven belt tension is after the job, of course belt will wear (and on V6 timing will shift until belt tension is even). You probably won't see damage immediately after the job, but if the belt snaps at 50k miles mark instead of 75k-130k current belts have, I am sure the owner won't be happy. So while it is a bit of a pain to set the basic timing afterwards, it is well worth slackening (and pulling out where appropriate) the timing belt gears.   

Edited 28 February, 2016 by dieselV6

[jimbof]

The timing is sat at about +2.2 read via VCDS, I guess I need to adjust it slightly.  I did up the tensioner with the cam bolts loose as per all the good info out there.  

 

The tensioner is confusing me a little and could do with some advice.  I did it up as per the manual, and as per the description in the manual, as I did it up it did move a few mm to the right.  I didn't correct this position, turned over the engine twice clockwise and it stayed in roughly the same place.

 

I went out for a good run this evening - about 40 miles all told.  The engine is nice and warm now, and when I popped the cambelt cover I could see that the pointer is a fair bit more than 5mm to the right.  Have I ballsed something up, or is this the effect of hot engine?

[Tech1e]

The hot engine will increase the cambelt tension, this is considered in the tensioner markings.

[jimbof]

So I think I might have made a small schoolboy error and not realised the two nuts in the kit had different sized hex heads (even though the base diameter of the nut and the height of the nut are identical). I think I have them the wrong way round - 13mm on the tensioner, 15mm on the idler, but what is the difference? If the base has the same dia and the nut height is the same, I can't see why they put different heads on them.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that it is a production line optimisation thing - by having different heads they can have two preset wrenches on the line which can't be incorrectly used on the wrong fixing. Or am I missing something and need to get some new nuts and studs?

[mikaelse]

Hi Guys.  I DIY changed my timing belt on my 2002 1.8T  due to a failed waterpump at about 55000miles.

The design of it with a pump rotor of plastic is at least not smart here in sweden where I live. -30 C is not common but it happens

The plastic part was thoroughly fatigued. probably due to temp/cycling with several cracks in it and it finally got loose on the shaft.

I have been told I was lucky that it was stil in one piece and not dumped small pieces inside engine.

Checked the then current OEM sparpart and it was still same plastic design at about 100£ + old one returned.

Put in a aftermarket one at half price with a cast iron rotor. 4 years ago.

Not first time plastic/metal combo VAG stuff gives up on me.

It is probably perfectly possible to do the plastic design well with the right plastic and a good flexible fixation.
This was not one of those.  

[SuperbTWM]

Hi Guys.  I DIY changed my timing belt on my 2002 1.8T  due to a failed waterpump at about 55000miles.

The design of it with a pump rotor of plastic is at least not smart here in sweden where I live. -30 C is not common but it happens

The plastic part was thoroughly fatigued. probably due to temp/cycling with several cracks in it and it finally got loose on the shaft.

I have been told I was lucky that it was stil in one piece and not dumped small pieces inside engine.

Checked the then current OEM sparpart and it was still same plastic design at about 100£ + old one returned.

Put in a aftermarket one at half price with a cast iron rotor. 4 years ago.

Not first time plastic/metal combo VAG stuff gives up on me.

It is probably perfectly possible to do the plastic design well with the right plastic and a good flexible fixation.

This was not one of those.  

 

This was a common issue early on that I believe they have sorted now, replaced one on a 1.8T myself that was working fine but had started to disintegrate.

 

Having used an aftermarket brass impeller design previous as a replacement I have stuck with the OEM ever since as  believe the build quality is better and you know what you are getting.

Edited 10 December, 2016 by SuperbTWM

[jimbof]

Hi Guys.  I DIY changed my timing belt on my 2002 1.8T  due to a failed waterpump at about 55000miles.

The design of it with a pump rotor of plastic is at least not smart here in sweden where I live. -30 C is not common but it happens

  

 

The design of plastic impeller was specifically for climates like yours in case the coolant becomes too weak.

The idea is that the impeller breaks instead of it destroying your engine when the pump gear locks due to being frozen.

 

I fitted a metal pump to mine, but I know

1) it never gets that cold here

2) I always have correct strength coolant.