Clutch Eats Gearbox and Bank Balance!

[sherlocks VRS]

Playing devil's advocate, any part can fail, Skoda/VAG cant be expected to cover the failure of anything out of a warranty period, I know a guy whos Sprinter cylinder head failed just out of warranty and Merc did cover the £3000 cost of repairs but he was lucky.

 

I still cant get my head round how a clutch could destroy a gearbox, the diff looks mounted closer (albeit through the bell housing wall) isnt the box at the rear of the clutch fork and again behind a wall?

 

have you pictures of yours?

 

 

The six speed gearbox has a inboard clutch slave cylinder not a release arm like your picture has (would suggest the picture is a 5 speed box with a external slave cylinder) and what happens is the clutch cover plate retaining ring snaps and cuts its way through the gearbox bell housing causing the oil to leak out.

[Jayelem]

All warranty and possible goodwill work has to be done at the main dealer, Had you left your car there for them to check they would have found the issue and checked your service history and then submitted a goodwill claim and i would say because you have got full history you would have got the majority of the work done under the goodwill clause, The fact you took it to a independent garage isnt really skodas fault and the majority of car dealers wont entertain any warranty being carried out by independents.  

Did you read the full thread?  I did go to a main dealer, they said it would be a week with no possibility courtesy car.  I didn't think that was acceptable customer service.

[sherlocks VRS]

interesting and what id expect, if the 3rd party workshop has simply dismantled it, had a panic,  then sent everything, car and carnage, to a Skoda dealer would the owner have stood a chance of the result he would have liked?

Very doubtful, even if the car was stripped and then returned to the dealer i still dont think you would get any joy.

[sherlocks VRS]

Did you read the full thread?  I did go to a main dealer, they said it would be a week with no possibility courtesy car.  I didn't think that was acceptable customer service

ERR yes i can read! you cant blame the dealer for being busy and having pre booked jobs in, We are currently booking in with a 5 day lead time and we have 5 courtesy cars on loan at all times.

[Jayelem]

The six speed gearbox has a inboard clutch slave cylinder not a release arm like your picture has (would suggest the picture is a 5 speed box with a external slave cylinder) and what happens is the clutch cover plate retaining ring snaps and cuts its way through the gearbox bell housing causing the oil to leak out.

What Sherlock is confirming (presumably through workshop experience) is that this is a known failure mode.  He has described exactly what happens, so I also assume this happens on a regular basis in his workshop alone.  (I do have several photos, but currently, my Microsoft Surface doesn't seem to offer an icon to attach them). 

 

What I know, with 35 years of failure analysis experience is why it failed.  You can't create this failure, and you can't falsify the evidence, it's written in the metal. 

 

As Sherlock said, "the retaining ring snaps and cuts its way through.....".  At least I now know that Skoda are well-aware of this presumably-frequent failure mode, even if Skoda UK don't accept any liability for this OE fault. 

[lichfielddriver]

Did you read the full thread?  I did go to a main dealer, they said it would be a week with no possibility courtesy car.  I didn't think that was acceptable customer service.

 

Sadly we rarely get a sameday appointment even at our GP..... 

 

A week is quite soon for some, I was told 3 weeks once by a main dealer, if they havent the staff or a ramp/bay free they simply cant do it

[lichfielddriver]

Hope mines different.....lol

[Jayelem]

ERR yes i can read! you cant blame the dealer for being busy and having pre booked jobs in, We are currently booking in with a 5 day lead time and we have 5 courtesy cars on loan at all times.

I wasn't being rude, I just didn't know if you'd read the whole of what is now a lengthy thread.  I also understand that dealers are busy, but what should I have done?  I had an operation scheduled and lectures to give at places away from main transport routes.  I needed a car, and five days without a car just wasn't an option.  As you've said yourself this failure mode isn't unknown; I wonder if Skoda know why they fail?

[sherlocks VRS]

What Sherlock is confirming (presumably through workshop experience) is that this is a known failure mode.  He has described exactly what happens, so I also assume this happens on a regular basis in his workshop alone.  (I do have several photos, but currently, my Microsoft Surface doesn't seem to offer an icon to attach them). 

 

What I know, with 35 years of failure analysis experience is why it failed.  You can't create this failure, and you can't falsify the evidence, it's written in the metal. 

 

As Sherlock said, "the retaining ring snaps and cuts its way through.....".  At least I now know that Skoda are well-aware of this presumably-frequent failure mode, even if Skoda UK don't accept any liability for this OE fault. 

Ive never said its a known issue,  ive been in the motor trade for 30 plus years and have seen engine failures, gearbox failures , electric motor failures etc etc, so if i spoke about those would that make them know issues ?, I used to work for a 4x4 dealer and landrover clutches did the same thing, i also worked for a number of years at a fiat main dealer and the clutch release bearing used to wear through the clutch fingers and cause a similar issue, The fact is you removed your car from the main dealer and unfortunately those are the rules.

[Jayelem]

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.  I guess we've exhausted most of the avenues, and I'm signing off now.   

 

It's clear there are varying opinions; I've made my thoughts clear above, and I still feel strongly that way.  You're welcome to disagree with me, but to those who might find a sudden oil puddle under their car, I'd suggest you read this post carefully!

[Danny 57]

Good luck anyway and please let us know what happens.

[brad1.8T]

Not a comment on the OP but on peoples attachment to motor vehicles in general.

 

My SIL worked for a dentist.  His practice is in the main street & his house is 3km down the road.  The dentists garage door failed.  Instead of either hoofing it to work (nice spring morning) or calling a taxi he insisted on spending 3 hours of fully booked surgery time dismantling (not fixing) his garage door so that he could get the car out.  WTF?

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Goodwill repairs are generally a 2 way street you have your car servicing done at the dealer and when something goes wrong like this the dealer does his best to help. 1st thing Skoda ask about is service history so you would have had a result here. I have done this exact repair before by changing the clutch and the bell housing. To change the bell housing all the internals have to be removed and inspected.

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[StuartTunstall]

Goodwill repairs are generally a 2 way street you have your car servicing done at the dealer and when something goes wrong like this the dealer does his best to help. 1st thing Skoda ask about is service history so you would have had a result here. I have done this exact repair before by changing the clutch and the bell housing. To change the bell housing all the internals have to be removed and inspected.

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I can agree 100% with this... I should know... as mentioned on here in the fast a few times... This is why I always stick with dealers for servicing, yes you pay a little more, but it can be an advantage.. 

 

As well as my fantastic Superb, I have my 2010/2011 Seat Ibiza, my 8th Seat... last year when the car was 4 months out of warranty and done 60000 miles it developed an engine issue, which in the end required a replacement.. This car and all my others were service to the schedule by the main dealer.. When the solution was found he asked me to email him all my registration numbers for all the Seat's that I owned.. 

 

He said we acre confident that Seat will assist as a goodwill contribution to the repair due to my loyalty to the brand and the dealer network.. 

 

I expected maybe 30-50% ... which on a £4500 bill would still sting but at least it would help.. 

 

What I actually paid was the initial diagnostic and strip down... so in the end I paid £400.00 ... Now.. 

 

I appreciate there are some fantastic independents out there, but do you think if I had my car service and repaired by them that Seat would have done what they did???? I think not! I suspect they would help, but not give me almost all the bill paid.. 

 

My dealer is as helpful as they can be, when I did breakdown and had my car towed to them they went out there way to get me a car to use, a new demo that had 20 miles on the clock, then fixed it when they could... but as a rule for normal repairs/service I am looking at a couple of weeks with a car, sooner if I can do without a loan car.. 

 

I will stick with my dealer and support them, why, because they support me when I needed them.. The extra money I pay is a small price to pay for good service... Oh and by the way, I use D.M Keith in York... 

 

Because of this they had £32000 of my money when I wanted the Superb...

[silver1011]

The only bit I can add is to say that I've been a Skoda owner since 2009 and am now on our third model, the original Octavia is still with us.

 

Whilst the first and third Skoda's have been great the second purchase ended up being a bit of a lemon.

 

My personal experience suggests that Skoda UK in it's emergence since joining the VAG family brought with it exemplary service, goodwill gestures were handed out left right and center all in an effort to build the brand and earn the trust of those who would never dream of buying a Skoda. My Octavia vRS had thousands of pounds of Skoda's money thrown at it, all out of warranty.

 

Things have changed, Skoda is currently in a place they never dreamed of, and deservedly so. But there is a cost to the fame, the small family-run businesses have been cast aside in favour of new glass showrooms, and sadly the need to win new customers is being done by expensive advertising, their great cars and rapidly increasing purchase prices.

 

Something had to give, and in my experience it was the good old fashioned backroom support. I'm not saying the goodwill isn't there anymore but it is a damned sight harder to get.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

Where I work there is loads of goodwill. Just changed a timing chain 1.2 tsi 5.5 year old Yeti. Customer is paying nothing. Why. .. Full dealer history.

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[silver1011]

I'd imagine the fact that it is a quite well publicised weak point across the VAG range and combined with the fact there was a recall on some models will have helped too.

 

I'd imagine the dealer has a lot of influence too, as they can apply quite a bit of pressure to Skoda UK if they choose to. They also through experience know the best ways to be successful when making claims on behalf of customers.

[FLAPPERJACK7]

For the 0.0139 pence per mile and less it costs to have your car servicing done at the dealer I would have it done for the first 6 years.

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Edited 19 July, 2015 by FLAPPERJACK7

[silver1011]

I got goodwill just past my Octavia's fifth birthday. John at Skoda customer services (we were on first name terms by then!) mentioned a five year cut off for goodwill but it seems either I was lucky or it is determined on a case-by-case basis.

[peterposh]

Try social media,shame them post it on their Facebook page,contact them via Twitter

Edited 26 July, 2015 by peterposh

[DonjSZ5]

When I dropped off my Yeti for it's NEW clutch after 5500 miles, 6 months old, I noticed another Yeti parked outside the service workshop...in the back (seats up) was a load of clutch and gearbox parts. 

 

Now when I was in Service Reception I overheard a telephone conversation between CS op and someone. CS: The customer has had his Yeti stripped by a third party to determine the fault and then transported here for us to repair under warranty... From the remainder of the converse and its gist, the owner was going to be very p****d off.

Edited 8 August, 2015 by DonjSZ5

[paully]

Just had my Skoda returned after repair today...A stone smashed the turbo cooler radiator on it..expensive job not covered by warranty...However DM Keith Wakefield did a great job for me and got SUK to offer a generous goodwill gesture...This is my third Skoda but all have been serviced within the dealer network..I`m convinced that this is what hugely helps your cause

[FLAPPERJACK7]

This is what it looks like when it happens. Always a Sachs clutch.

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[FLAPPERJACK7]

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[Jayelem]

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Flapperjack.  Thank you, very useful.  This is precisely what happened to mine (also a Sachs clutch) and as I said, I have a failure report saying exactly why this happens.  It's a well-known failure mode, resulting from materials and design, so obviously an OE, built-in failure that cost me thousands because I wasn't willing to wait in a dealer queue for a week with no car at a critical time.  I don't want to re-open the debate about the rights and wrongs, just to say that others should be very wary of this known, OE failure mode on relatively new cars.