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Wheel bolts over torqued...


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Hi All,

 

This is another 'check your nuts 'n bolts' thread.

 

I had my Superb serviced on Friday the 10th and this weekend got some spare time to do a diagonal swap on the wheels/tyres - I'm hoping they last long enough to replace with winter tyres/wheels in late October/early November.

 

Got the bolt wrench from the boot. Moved car on three clicks of the handbrake! Clicked another click and tried again. No joy. Stood on the bar - I'm over 90kg, bar is 0.25 meters so this is now up to 220Nm - no joy. Bouced a little - no joy. Tried my machine mart impact driver (max 310Nm) , no joy. 1+ meter breaker bar (/chin up bar) and they break loose with a loud crack. I'd estimate the amount of effort I was putting in was equiviant to lifting a 25-35kg dumbell. This would mean it was likely over 300Nm to undo a bolt fitted less than 10 days previous.

 

Torque should have been 120Nm.

 

So all bolts loose I move onto the locking bolts. Three came off and the socket and lever broke off on the final one. Looked at the socket and the engagement pattern has sheared off.

 

Will be visiting the garage to discuss this tonight.

Edited by WesBrooks
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Yeah. No one in to check the bolts when I got there (1730ish, after service technicians, but not managers leave) so they've taken details, the destroyed locking wheel bolt socket and a spare locking bolt.

 

They've said that they don't use impact guns on the wheel bolts. If this is the case then perhaps it is a corrosion issue. There is a good chance the wheels weren't removed for the last service as it was a minor. The service previous was a disc brake swap, so they certinally came off then. I'm checking up on the part codes to see whether the following discs are original factory quality or an economy line.

 

Even if this is a corrosion issue I still see this as the garages problem as is corrosion is an issue they should use anti sieze compound or better discs.

 

Should get a call back within the hour.

 

I'll always be checking my bolts following a service now.

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Thing is, the wheel bolts go through clearance holes in the discs, not into threads in the discs, and wheel bolts shouldn't be lubed anyway.

 

In your position, if it was definitely this dealer that last touched the bolts, I'd be asking for a full set of replacement bolts in case they've been permanently stretched/damaged. 

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That was my thinking regarding the bolts.

 

They've called back and say they don't use impact guns. Fair enough, I can accept that. The bolts however were still required an extreme amount of force to release them. If it is a corrosion issue, and they can't use an anti sieze then they're using substandard materials.

 

The manager started to talk about paying. I said if I have to pay a penny for this I will be taking the issue to the next level up, and they won't see my car again for the next major, or cam belt service.

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I must admit, I only considered corrosion between the threads of the bolts and what they're going into earlier, not between the seat areas of alloy wheel and bolt head, is there evidence of corrosion on either of those areas? I would expect the bolts to have a coating designed to resist such corrosion, but in a coastal location that might not be adequate?

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I thought the bolts went into the discs so I'm glad you pointed that out before I made a tit of myself in an argument! :-D

 

Turns out the rear disc were standard quality but all the pads and front discs were from the economy range! Not happy that they didn't ask me about economy or standard quality (I would always choose the latter with brakes) but see that is nothing to do with the tight bolts.

 

We're about 15 miles from the coast and work is further inland. We do however have lots of rain and discs were done at the end of last summer so have had road salt.

Edited by WesBrooks
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Think the economy thing may be some confusion with the parts website. I take that back until I hear otherwise. Part codes fitted were:

 

Rear Disc 104441518

Front Disc 1K0615301AA

Brake Pad 5K0698451G

Brake Pad 5K0698151

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Give them their due, they've come back and offered to get the bolts off and replace the locking bolts at their own cost. This was what I was hoping for last night when I visited them as I've been there 9 times for service and repairs over the past 3 and a bit years.

 

Happy about that. There was nothing I could have done which would have resulted in me getting that nut off, the socket's engagement teeth just failed. As the car is serviced at as per the 20,000 mile interval I'd expect that if there is a chance that the bolts can seize during that time period that they should be cracked off and retorqued. I think this is a general procedural thing rather than an issue with a specific garage.

 

Moving on I'd recommend those of us who are capable to crack off and retorque bolts on the wheels when you get the chance. breaker bar can be a necessity for this.

Edited by WesBrooks
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I've found I can safely remove even very tight wheel nuts with the spanner supplied with the car by putting my knee under the spanner and applying force to it using my calf muscle (Usually with my hand between the two to spread the load). The chances of a nasty accident if you're swinging or jumping on the tyre iron and it slips or a bolt shears are very high, so applying the force between a very strong muscle and the ground without your body weight behind it is much safer.

Edited by psycholist
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Wes, noticed you said you were wanting to do a diagonal wheel swap. I have just done a wheel rotation to even out the tyre wear, my handbook says to swap them in line. Like you I was going to do diagonal swap, might be worth checking your handbook.

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Wes, noticed you said you were wanting to do a diagonal wheel swap. I have just done a wheel rotation to even out the tyre wear, my handbook says to swap them in line. Like you I was going to do diagonal swap, might be worth checking your handbook.

It depends on the tyres fitted but many tyres manufactured today are DIRECTIONAL i.e. the tread pattern is designed to rotate in one direction only, and have a directional arrow molded into the side wall. 

 

Hence wheels can only be rotated front to back with these fitted.

 

Swapping them diagonally would result in the tyres rotating "backwards."

 

Non-directional tyres can be rotated in any order you prefer, but I guess car manufacturers recommend front to back only as this is at least guaranteed to work for all types of tyre.

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Not a bad Idea on the calf muscle trick. I'm considering finding somewhere in the car to leave the breaker bar which doesn't look like I'm using it for a weapon! ...or it rattling around. May velcro it to the back of the back seats.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the tyre rotation. I did a front to back last time because of exactly that, I thought my tyres were directional. On closer inspection (while making noises similar to a certain Screaming Jay Hawkins track trying to shift the bolts) I noticed my tyres had outside marked, rather than direction as I had assumed. I'm reasonably sure I'm fine to diagonal swap.

 

My tyres seem to wear out most on the left hand shoulders of the front tyres. I think this is from driving economically ;-) and dropping little speed for clear roundabouts. This isn't the same as the outer edge of the normal tread wearing from low pressure. On that subject I've noticed the inner part of my tyres are wearing most at the front (aside from the shoulders). This would indicate overpressure, but I regualrly check them. 2.1 bar in the front, 2.3 in the rear. Is this indicative of a large proportion of my miles being motorway?

 

My Wife's Yaris acually has tyre rotation (every 5000 miles!) down in the users service guide manual. I've asked my garage to do it a few times but they chose not to each time so far. Hense me doing it!

 

I just prefer the idea of all corners gripping the same if I do hit excessive water and having all tyres done at the same time so try to keep tyres even wear.

Edited by WesBrooks
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<snip>

Not a bad Idea on the calf muscle trick. I'm considering finding somewhere in the car to leave the breaker bar which doesn't look like I'm using it for a weapon! ...or it rattling around. May velcro it to the back of the back seats.

<snip>

My tyres seem to wear out most on the left hand shoulders of the front tyres. I think this is from driving economically ;-) and dropping little speed for clear roundabouts. This isn't the same as the outer edge of the normal tread wearing from low pressure. On that subject I've noticed the inner part of my tyres are wearing most at the front (aside from the shoulders). This would indicate overpressure, but I regualrly check them. 2.1 bar in the front, 2.3 in the rear. Is this indicative of a large proportion of my miles being motorway?

<snip>

 

I keep a jack and breaker bar in the boot. My understanding being that whatever is in the boot can't be seen to be used as an offensive weapon while driving. If you kept it in the passenger compartment, it is possible to grab while driving. I take the same attitude with my hockey stick!

 

Your tyre pressures look low to me, just my opinion. Also, why have the rear tyre pressure higher? Unless you are always running around with lots or weight.

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Tyre pressures are as per the pressure guide in on the inside of the fuel filler flap. I did find this weird to begin with too as the previous car I had recomended more pressure at the front. This could be done by Skoda to balance the charateristics of the car in a slide and maybe to reduce understeer by letting the front grip more.

 

Higher pressures are given for a fully loaded car but that would increase the tyre wear in the centre of the tyre exagerating the pattern I've spotted.

 

Looking at the following I think I'll see if it settles with the new shocks, springs, and suspension mounts - which were already on the cards.

 

http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch25/25readtirewear.html

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Just a word of caution your best tyres eg the ones with the most tread should really be on the rear for safety. The vehicle is less likely to lose the rear end in damp/wet conditions when cornering. Its easier to control a front end slide than a rear end slide, and that applies to front and rear wheel drive cars. Just do a quick google search to confirm.

Edited by gixersix
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