PAS problem

[fireballxl5]

Evening everyone, after sorting the engine problems out, it appears the Gremlins are back in town, as the Pas has started to play up, its intermittent, you can be driving along, warning light comes on and the PAS fails, sometimes its for a short period of time and kicks back in over a short distance, other times it may go off for a couple of miles or so, then come back again and on a couple of occasions the warning light comes on but the PAS is still working?

I did replace the PAS pump when I repaired the accident damage, with a good second hand unit, plus had to repair bits of the wiring loom to the pump as one of the plugs to the pump was smashed, but all seemed to be working fine, until now.

Have checked the earth straps and PAS fuse to make sure there was good contact, so now I'm a little stuck as to whats going on, so if theres anyone who has had similar problems and may no what the cause of the problem, I would be grateful to know, oh one last thing are these Fabia's renown for squeaky rear suspension, cheers.

[sepulchrave]

Your 'good' secondhand unit is failing I'm afraid.

[fireballxl5]

Your 'good' secondhand unit is failing I'm afraid.

From what I've been reading it could be a host of things, bad battery, bad earths, alternator over charging, steering angle sensor and a partridge in a pear tree.

[Breezy_Pete]

Definitely check for partridges in the PAS fluid reservoir.

What's your charging voltage at idle, measured straight across batt terminals?

[Steve Neate]

Does the battery light come on when the ignition is switched on and go off when the engine starts?

 

SN

[dm222]

From what I've been reading it could be a host of things, bad battery, bad earths, alternator over charging, steering angle sensor and a partridge in a pear tree.

 

Wouldn't a alternator overcharging throw an error?

What is a partridge?

Did you check your errors?

[fireballxl5]

Does the battery light come on when the ignition is switched on and go off when the engine starts?

 

SN

Yes the battery light comes on with ignition and go's of on start.

[fireballxl5]

when I replaced the damaged PAS pump, I did not realize that the pump needed coding and was wondering if this has had a knock on effect to the electronics, prior to the repair to the engine the PAS seemed to work fine and had driven quite a number of miles, again with no issues.

Now that the repairs to the engine have been done and its running great, it just seems a little odd that you fix one problem and another one gets thrown up, maybe I have done some thing wrong with the fitting of the pump, after realizing I had not recoded the pump, I did try to recode it, by turning the steering to the left and counted ten seconds and repeated the process on the right, but what I did not do was then drive for a distance at no more than 20mph to give the PAS system time to reset?

One thing I did do was to spray the steering angle sensor with a penetrating oil, to drive out any moisture as it was suggested that this sensor could cause running problems and this was done more recently.

[dm222]

Well, that thing to drive 20mph and turn the whell is only for cars with esp, I believe.

What you need to do is code the pump something like 10111 or something like that, I don't know the coding for your car... using VCDS

 

Does your power steering work but it's heavier or do your have your steering so hard that you can only turn the steering with the two hands?

Edited 24 July, 2015 by dm222

[KenONeill]

Seriously, "new old" PAS pump or not, I'd restart with the basics of voltage over the battery engine idling and VCDS codes.

 

Yes it could be the pump failing, or it could be co-incidence. The one thing it shouldn't be is damage caused by the replacement pump not being fully coded.

[dm222]

Seriously, "new old" PAS pump or not, I'd restart with the basics of voltage over the battery engine idling and VCDS codes.

 

Yes it could be the pump failing, or it could be co-incidence. The one thing it shouldn't be is damage caused by the replacement pump not being fully coded.

 

Does your car have ESP? If not then look bellow...

 

1º There is no such thing as pump not fully coded.... There is a pump with the right code and there is a pump with the wrong code...

2º If the pump has the wrong code it could harder or lighter to turn the steering than normal, or the steering sensor G250 could not work but the pump itself would still work...

3º If your pump already worked in the past without the PAS light then the problem is not the coding.

4º If your steering is harder but you can still move it without the two hands then probably the problem is in the sensor.

5º If the steering is really really heavy almost undriable, then the pump is not working, could it be a bad pump or a bad conection /battery since apparently you already had that problem in the past!

Edited 24 July, 2015 by dm222

[sepulchrave]

when I replaced the damaged PAS pump, I did not realize that the pump needed coding and was wondering if this has had a knock on effect to the electronics, prior to the repair to the engine the PAS seemed to work fine and had driven quite a number of miles, again with no issues.

Now that the repairs to the engine have been done and its running great, it just seems a little odd that you fix one problem and another one gets thrown up, maybe I have done some thing wrong with the fitting of the pump, after realizing I had not recoded the pump, I did try to recode it, by turning the steering to the left and counted ten seconds and repeated the process on the right, but what I did not do was then drive for a distance at no more than 20mph to give the PAS system time to reset?

One thing I did do was to spray the steering angle sensor with a penetrating oil, to drive out any moisture as it was suggested that this sensor could cause running problems and this was done more recently.

 

You don't have to recode the PAS pump, it's nonsense, the code simply sets the level of assist, most Fabias are 00110, most VRS's are 10120, whatever your secondhand pump came coded with would be absolutely fine.

 

Turning the steering lock to lock simply bleeds the system of entrained air after a fluid change or a pump swap, it doesn't do anything electronic at all, more nonsense.

 

You haven't done anything wrong, the secondhand pump you fitted has simply started to fail.

[fireballxl5]

Weird or what, but this morning before starting out I disconnected the battery and left it like that for a few minutes and noticed the earth wire that bolts to the earth battery clamp that I had not checked for a good connection, although I do not know as to where this earth wire go's to, I unbolted it and reset it on nice and secure and today I have had no problems with the PAS?

[TMB]

Weird or what, but this morning before starting out I disconnected the battery and left it like that for a few minutes and noticed the earth wire that bolts to the earth battery clamp that I had not checked for a good connection, although I do not know as to where this earth wire go's to, I unbolted it and reset it on nice and secure and today I have had no problems with the PAS?

 

That's usually one of the first things to check with PAS problems. They can have a poor connection where the battery earth lead attaches to the strut turret. Or do you mean a smaller wire going to the battery lead clamp?

[Breezy_Pete]

I read it as the latter, but unfortunately it was/is peeing it down too hard here to consider going out to try and trace where that  wire goes.

[dm222]

That's usually one of the first things to check with PAS problems. They can have a poor connection where the battery earth lead attaches to the strut turret. Or do you mean a smaller wire going to the battery lead clamp?

 

What is the smaller wire?

[Breezy_Pete]

A quick look at a wiring diagram suggests this wire may be the 0V reference that the onboard supply control unit in the cabin uses to measure the 'system voltage' against. As the mastermind of all things electrical, if this unit had a bad connection at the battery post, it could be working with duff information about what is really going on with the battery/charging system.

 

That's a bit speculative TBH, but plausible I think?

[dm222]

A quick look at a wiring diagram suggests this wire may be the 0V reference that the onboard supply control unit in the cabin uses to measure the 'system voltage' against. As the mastermind of all things electrical, if this unit had a bad connection at the battery post, it could be working with duff information about what is really going on with the battery/charging system.

 

That's a bit speculative TBH, but plausible I think?

 

Don't know about electric systems, but wouldn't it be a big coincidence that after being defective the system had still a 14V difference?

[Breezy_Pete]

I don't understand what you mean, unfortunately. Are you talking about your car, or the OP's?

[dm222]

I don't understand what you mean, unfortunately. Are you talking about your car, or the OP's?

 

Sorry, i'm talking about the user car but I don't understand about what I'm talking about, so I will not create confusion 

[Breezy_Pete]

I'm not sure whether my guess about that wire is correct, but it's an extremely easy thing to check. I'm intrigued to measure my battery/charging voltage before and after cleaning that connection tomorrow morning, as my charging on the Polo has always been a bit marginal.

[fireballxl5]

Just to clarify which wire I mean, if you look down between the battery and the n/s inner wing, theres a wiring harness that follows the washer bottle filler neck, that comes up from under the battery, the harness go's to a multi plug connector that is attached to a plastic bracket, that attaches to the turret just behind the battery, at this plug in point theres a brown earth wire that comes directly out of the harness and comes up and onto the  main earth clamp at the battery post, this in turn is clamped onto the battery clamp with a 10 ml nut.

 Covered a few miles yesterday and all seems well at the moment, but I'm still holding my breath, as like what happened a few days ago, when going down Dover castle hill, I took a right turn and as I did so the PAS failed, right at the point where there are crash barriers to stop you from going over the side of the hill, for a brief moment it put the wind up me as I found myself going in a direction I did not intend (right at the barriers).

 Makes you wonder how many people have suffered injury or death due to PAS failure, not only with Skoda's, but BMW Mini's, Seat's, VW, Audi who all have a record of electronic PAS failure, as from now I will be wearing brown trousers.

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep, that wire appears on the first 'example' diagram of both of the wiring diagram pdfs I've seen, and I really can't see what it would be for other than to give a 'best possible' 0V reference, immune to the effects of return currents from any current consumers that might affect the 'earth potential' at other points around the chassis/body.

 

Mine wasn't mucky, and it's reasonably well protected unless the seals around the battery posts start letting out corrosive stuff, I guess.

 

I know what you mean about PAS failure being a bit scary, but do you reckon all-mechanical, belt driven PAS systems were more reliable?   I'm wondering; I have no feel for the data/stats?  I preferred my non-PAS mk2 Golf to the current one or any of these PAS-equipped cars, TBH.  I like simplicity.

[fireballxl5]

Yep, that wire appears on the first 'example' diagram of both of the wiring diagram pdfs I've seen, and I really can't see what it would be for other than to give a 'best possible' 0V reference, immune to the effects of return currents from any current consumers that might affect the 'earth potential' at other points around the chassis/body.

 

Mine wasn't mucky, and it's reasonably well protected unless the seals around the battery posts start letting out corrosive stuff, I guess.

 

I know what you mean about PAS failure being a bit scary, but do you reckon all-mechanical, belt driven PAS systems were more reliable?   I'm wondering; I have no feel for the data/stats?  I preferred my non-PAS mk2 Golf to the current one or any of these PAS-equipped cars, TBH.  I like simplicity.

Yes I would say that mechanical belt driven PAS systems are more reliable, by far, as the three main components, pump, belt and rack are easy to diagnose, if a fault in the system should occur, then the not so important fail item in the system would be the PAS pipe work, yes I like simple.

[dm222]

Full hydraulic are more reliable and cheaper to replace.

 

From what I'm seeing VAG and FIAT PAS fails a lot more than others, but FIAT is an easy fix as VAG almost always need a new pump... VAG cars get a lot more heavy without PAS so really dangerous!

Definitly I believe a lot more people died from PAS pump from VAG cars than from the airbag problem from Honda and they still recalled millions of cars.

Just something I will have in consideration when I bought my next car.

Edited 25 July, 2015 by dm222